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Rewind Live TV

jjjjy7
I'm a reliable contributor

For the last two days I have been unable to rewind live TV.  For example, if I had been watching a channel for 15 mins, I was able to rewind at least 15 mins.  That is no longer the case, as it appears that it is no longer buffering the program more than 5 mins or so.  Its happening on all my boxes, and I have rebooted everything.  Anyone else having this issue?

 

 

 

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Re: Rewind Live TV

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

I have also seen this happen at my parents' house; they have Xi6-T set-top boxes.  However, in their case, the STB simply stopped buffering streamed content, making it impossible to rewind or replay anything that you are watching.

 

I don't know what triggered that glitch.  I was able to clear the problem by power-cycling the STB.  Then the glitch happened again a few days later... but after power-cycling to clear the problem yet again, I have not seen the glitch recur since.

 

My dad seemed to think that the problem coincided with their Internet going down.  However, I have not found a way to reproduce the problem nor can I explain why the STB would have even gotten into that weird state.

 

If simply rebooting the STB does not clear the problem, then I would power-cycle the Ignite Gateway, then power-cycle all set-top boxes in the home.

Re: Rewind Live TV

jjjjy7
I'm a reliable contributor

@-G-   About two days ago I was watching tv and the modem rebooted on its own.  It reconnected a few mins later.  Thats when I started noticing the issues.  I have rebooted everything (including the gateway), but the issue continues.  No issues with internet.

Re: Rewind Live TV

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@jjjjy7 wrote:

@-G-   About two days ago I was watching tv and the modem rebooted on its own.  It reconnected a few mins later.  Thats when I started noticing the issues.  I have rebooted everything, but the issue continues.  No issues with internet.


Interesting.  I'm trying to recall exactly what transpired when we first discovered the problem.

 

At the time, Rogers Internet in the neighbourhood was VERY problematic.  We would be seeing constant A/V dropouts, or the Ignite TV streams would drop completely.   (I have never seen so many Rogers techs getting dispatched to so many houses.)

 

I think the first time that I noticed that the STB stopped buffering, I restarted their STB.  When my dad mentioned that the problem had actually been happening since that morning and that they had also lost Internet service just before that as well, I powered everything off, left everything off for a minute, powered up their XB7, then powered up the STB's after their gateway came back online.

 

I'm still at a loss to explain why their STB stopped buffering.  Such a thing never happened at my house, and I live in the same neighbourhood... but I also restarted my Ignite gateway multiple times per day (first thing in the morning and before going to bed) to clear error stats.

 

The good news is that everything seems to be working fine now, including the Internet service.

Re: Rewind Live TV

jjjjy7
I'm a reliable contributor

@-G-   thank you for your response.  I am curious - do you still restart your gateway every day?  I typically only do that when there are issues.

Re: Rewind Live TV

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

I did some experimenting at my house and found the following:

 

1. Firstly I tuned to a channel  with a programme that did not have the restart feature (Fox in this case).

2. My buffer ended up being 25 minutes long.

3. I wasn't sure whether the buffer would include the programme where I started watching, if the next programme was now on, but it does - it remembers 25 minutes (say 15 minutes of the current programme and 10 minutes of the previous programme).  

4. I thought that the buffer would keep all of the programming from when you tuned to that channel, but it doesn't.  In my case 25 minutes.

5. I rarely use this feature, since I rarely watch live TV.  I usually set recordings and do not "surf".

6. I always recommend using the Restart feature of the WiFi app instead of unplugging.  I realize there are no hard drives, but there are electronics that may not "like" losing power instantaneously or having power "restored" frequently.  I prefer the "orderly" restart instead since it has always fixed things if something was amiss.  Restart takes about 5-6 minutes for me, so I do it when I don't need TV, Internet, Home Phone.

7. I don't do regular Restarts and have probably only needed to do about 5 Restarts in the year I've had IgniteTV.

Re: Rewind Live TV

jjjjy7
I'm a reliable contributor

@57  thank you taking the time to respond.  I am getting about 20-25 mins right now on the buffer, but I remember before I was getting at least an hour.   Not sure what changed but it happend on all my STBs at the same time.  

Re: Rewind Live TV

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@jjjjy7 wrote:

@-G-   thank you for your response.  I am curious - do you still restart your gateway every day?  I typically only do that when there are issues.


No, my gateway has been up and running for several weeks now without a restart.

Re: Rewind Live TV

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@jjjjy7 wrote:

@57  thank you taking the time to respond.  I am getting about 20-25 mins right now on the buffer, but I remember before I was getting at least an hour.   Not sure what changed but it happend on all my STBs at the same time.  


No, the Xi6 and XiOne set-top boxes only have enough onboard eMMC storage to buffer roughly 25 minutes of an HD stream.

Re: Rewind Live TV

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@-G- wrote:


No, the Xi6 and XiOne set-top boxes only have enough onboard eMMC storage to buffer roughly 25 minutes of an HD stream.


I'm not sure if that's where it's buffering. I set it on a 4K channel and got at least 20 minutes before I had to leave.  If you REW to the start and press REC, I believe you then have a recording of the entire time, but I haven't tried that in a while.

 

I thought the box' internal memory was only good for about 15 minutes?  I'll try again tonight on another 4K channel to confirm.  I'll also try one of the Stingray channels, which take up very little memory.

Re: Rewind Live TV

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

Just checked and it's 25 minutes for Stingray, HD channels and 4K channels, so it's not memory-related.

Re: Rewind Live TV

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@57 wrote:

@-G- wrote:


No, the Xi6 and XiOne set-top boxes only have enough onboard eMMC storage to buffer roughly 25 minutes of an HD stream.


I'm not sure if that's where it's buffering. I set it on a 4K channel and got at least 20 minutes before I had to leave.  If you REW to the start and press REC, I believe you then have a recording of the entire time, but I haven't tried that in a while.

 

I thought the box' internal memory was only good for about 15 minutes?  I'll try again tonight on another 4K channel to confirm.  I'll also try one of the Stingray channels, which take up very little memory.


In all the years that I have been an Ignite TV customer, all of my set-top boxes have only buffered 25 minutes of HD content.  I was curious as to why newer set-top boxes, such as the XiOne, did not buffer more.

 

I know that the Ignite set-top boxes buffer live streams internally, and my source for the reason behind the 25-minute limitation came from a technical specialist on the Ignite TV product team who confirmed that the limitation was due to the amount of onboard eMMC storage.  I'm not really in any position to argue.

 

It's also possible that the 25-minute limitation could really be in software.

 

I suppose I could also look at the internal circuit board photos for the set-top boxes in the FCC certification docs, find the specs for the RAM and Flash storage chips, and then work out what the theoretical storage limits of the different set-top boxes really are.  However, this may be a meaningless endeavour because the theoretical max of what could be buffered would also depend on how that flash storage is partitioned and managed, and/or how RAM is allocated and managed internally.

Re: Rewind Live TV

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@57 wrote:


I thought the box' internal memory was only good for about 15 minutes?  I'll try again tonight on another 4K channel to confirm.  I'll also try one of the Stingray channels, which take up very little memory.


While I was typing my last response, I was tuned to a Stingray Music channel, and I was only able to buffer 25 minutes.  I suppose that Stingray could be streamed at the same bitrate as an HD channel but it's more likely that this is a software constraint.

Re: Rewind Live TV

dinsdale71
I've been here awhile

To me this is one of the primary disadvantages of Ignite over my old local PVR.  I could rewind for up to 60 minutes on the local system, not just 25.  That's a big difference.  I gather from the informed comments above that it is a hardware (memory) issue, not something I can change in Settings or elsewhere.  Which I don't really understand since I thought I was recording to "the cloud" on Ignite.  Maybe recording but not buffering.

Re: Rewind Live TV

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@dinsdale71 wrote:

1. I gather from the informed comments above that it is a hardware (memory) issue,

2. not something I can change in Settings or elsewhere.  Which I don't really understand since I thought I was recording to "the cloud" on Ignite.


1. That's not what's stated in the preceding posts at all. Since it's a set 25 minutes for SD, HD, 4K channels which all have different memory requirements, it cannot be related to the hardware (memory), rather a software limitation set by Rogers for cloud recordings (buffering if you wish) for live TV.

2. There is no setting that you can change.

 

PS. Quite a few programmes have the Restart feature, which means you can go back to the start of the programme.

Re: Rewind Live TV

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@dinsdale71 wrote:

To me this is one of the primary disadvantages of Ignite over my old local PVR.  I could rewind for up to 60 minutes on the local system, not just 25.  That's a big difference.  I gather from the informed comments above that it is a hardware (memory) issue, not something I can change in Settings or elsewhere.  Which I don't really understand since I thought I was recording to "the cloud" on Ignite.  Maybe recording but not buffering.


When watching live TV, with Digital TV, the local PVR stores the program content on its hard disk.  If you were tuned into a channel, watched the first 10 minutes of a program and decided that you wanted to watch the program later, you could simply press Record and the PVR would save the buffered data along with the rest of the program; the entire program would get recorded.  If there is a network glitch and the channel momentarily goes blank, the stored data will remain intact until you change the channel..

 

No such thing happens with Ignite TV.  The streamed content is buffered locally but is NOT recorded or stored in the cloud.  If you press Record 10 minutes into a program, those first 10 minutes will not get recorded on the Cloud PVR.  Similarly, if a network glitch causes the stream to drop, the set-top box will not keep any of that buffered content.

 

It's a big difference in behaviour, and was the thing I missed most about having a local PVR when I switched to Ignite TV.

Re: Rewind Live TV

dinsdale71
I've been here awhile

Agreed.  It is my #1 dislike too.  A close second would be the inability to rewind slightly, switch to slow motion, pause at exactly the right spot, and then Zoom the picture in.  This was an excellent feature for, say, disputed goals in a hockey or soccer game, or catching a glimpse of a friend in the crowd.  Really miss that.  Those are two big negatives if you ask me.

Re: Rewind Live TV

mebe
I'm a trusted contributor
If the Ignite TV buffer is 25 minutes, does that mean you can also pause Live TV for 25 minutes, or does the pause button deactivate sooner?

My Nextbox 4K PVR has a 2-hour buffer, and although I enjoy using the slow-motion feature for sports, you can also get the slow motion to have sound.

Once the sound is activated with the slow-motion feature, it becomes quite funny when watching CNN or anything that has serious discussions. All the hosts appear to be drunk, slurring their words, just like when Jimmy Kimmel uses slo-mo to make Trump appear drunk.

For example, CNN's Kaitlan Collins normally speaks quickly, and with a high-pitched voice, but Drunk Kaitlan always makes me laugh. Now that she has her own show on CNN,, I prefer to watch her Live, since Drunk TV can't be activated on recorded content.

To activate Drunk TV, flip to any Live channel, and then back up a bit by either using the RW or back 10 seconds button. Once you do that, quickly press the FF button multiple times (to go faster), so that you get a bit beyond the Live Tv feed, so that the system gets confused and briefly displays a black screen. Once you see the black screen appear, start pressing the play button multiple times, even when the black screen disappears, until you hear the audio while in slow motion. If it fails, just try again.

Drunk TV might get more people to watch Live TV. It's funny, and for people with vision problems, it should be easier to follow the fast-moving sports action. The flaw is that it obviously takes longer to watch an entire programme that way (although you can still skip the commercials, and then reactivate Drunk TV).

I assume that if I watch too much Drunk TV, my PVR hard drive might get overworked and start malfunctioning.

Cheers! 🍻🍺🍷🍸

Re: Rewind Live TV

57
Resident Expert
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@mebe wrote:
If the Ignite TV buffer is 25 minutes, does that mean you can also pause Live TV for 25 minutes, or does the pause button deactivate sooner?

If you pause a programme you have recorded, the pause function stops after 10 minutes and you are taken to the channel you last watched.  I don't know what happens for live TV because I never do it, but I assume it would also be 10 minutes.

Re: Rewind Live TV

mebe
I'm a trusted contributor

During a pause of a recorded programme on my Nextbox 3 PVR, I don't recall how long it takes for the pause to fail, and then it just stops itself and backs out to the previous screen (perhaps after 10-30 minutes?).

I assume that other than the length of the buffers, the two systems should work like any buffer would.

The pause duration during Live TV for my Nextbox would range from 1 second, up until 2 hours, while the Ignite TV pausing of Live Tv should range from 1 second up until 25 minutes.

If we both flip to a fresh channel, and then quickly press Pause, the Live stream will resume right away to replace that previous 1 second or so, of buffer space. And if we both stayed on a channel for let's say 25 minutes, and then paused it, that pause would end after 25 minutes because the buffer is moving forward replacing each stored second, with a new second.

Once the buffer time moves forward and reaches our pause positions, the pause will go away, and then the Live streams will both begin to play. If not, then it wouldn't be a true 25-minute buffer for Ignite Tv.

Sincerely,
Buffer the Vampire Slayer.

Re: Rewind Live TV

mebe
I'm a trusted contributor

CORRECTION: Each second of the buffer does not get REPLACED, until the buffer is full (2 hours for my digital PVR and apparently 25 minutes for Ignite TV). So if you flip to a fresh channel and press the Pause button right away, the Live stream should remain paused until the buffer is full, when 25 minutes (for Ignite TV) passes. And if you have been on an Ignite TV channel for at least 25 minutes (now full Ignite TV buffer), and then press the Pause button, the Live TV stream will also remain paused for 25 minutes, because at the 25-minute mark, the buffer now needs to REPLACE each second with a fresh, new second, added to the end of the buffer.

So, if you want to see if the Ignite TV Live TV buffer is actually 25 minutes, simply wait 25 minutes (without changing channels), and then RW 25 minutes and then press the Pause button. If the Pause isn't quickly aborted (since each second now needs to be replaced with a new second added to the end of the buffer), and the Live TV stream doesn't resume playing, that would mean that the buffer is larger than 25 minutes ... UNLESS the Ignite TV system remains in Pause mode because instead of replacing or adding time to the buffer, it just remains locked at the same 25 minutes (which kills any true buffer effect), until the user releases the Pause, which then allows the Live TV stream to resume from where you last paused it. That scenario is highly unlikely because a locked buffer would be too similar to a recording, and thus quite useless, and inferior to an always active buffer that replaces old seconds with fresh, new Live TV seconds.

Sincerely,
I can't believe it's not buffer!

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