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IgniteTV Surround Sound

DDave_ca
I've Been Here Awhile

Hello!  First post...

 

Long time Rogers customer, new Ignite subscriber.  Any Ignite customers having trouble getting surround sound (DDS5.1) to work from these Ignite TV boxes?  In the settings, I have tried both Auto and Expert (forced surround sound), but neither work.

 

My connection is not HDMI direct to my surround receiver - it only has optical (toslink/SPDIF) input.  My Panasonic TV has optical output.  I have DDS5.1 when using the smart TV for Netflix playback - not from the Rogers Netflix app.  I also tried using an audio extractor/splitter - same results.

 

Thoughts?

 

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135 REPLIES 135

Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@Square  Well, not the response that you would want to see if you had been promised a fix months ago... but it doesn't sound like Rogers is ruling out fixing the problem either.

 

As for what's causing the problem, I think that the encoding for recorded content (including Restart) is done in a separate pipeline from live streaming and they may intentionally be doing encoding/transcoding on the two pipelines differently.  (I don't know why.  It may be to work around a different bug in the PVR playback software on another client, or it may be to work around a bug in the encoder itself.... we'll never know.)

 

For what it's worth, getting problems fixed these days is also tricky... especially with travel restrictions, workspace closures, etc.  I have heard lots of stories about infrastructure upgrades getting delayed because Systems Engineers and Professional Services teams can't travel to Canada to complete projects.  I would be shocked if Rogers was not affected.

 

COVID-19 has affected telcos' revenues as well, so that also has a tendency to put discretionary projects on hold.  With some projects on hold and other projects delayed, it doesn't make for a very good situation.



Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

The issue with improperly encoded DD5.1 started around spring of 2019, so they had almost a year to correct the problem (BC - Before COVID).  I'm unsure why they chose improperly encoded DD5.1 either, instead of say DD2.0 or PCM, which can be properly decoded using DPLII or similar.

 

Had they used either of the latter, you could leave the Ignite box set to DD instead of "other" so that you could get live or OD programming properly and server recordings as something that can be properly decoded.



Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

Square
I'm a Reliable Contributor

As my old posts indicated, I think this has to do with Comcast.  In the USA, the Comcast comments indicated that the Cloud PVR Recordings have always been Stereo, but they have the option to still ask for the old DVR's, instead of the Cloud PVR's.  But Rogers will not give this option.

Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@Square  The Comcast DVR that you are referring to is based on legacy cable technology with conventional tuners, so they record whatever is broadcast.  That equipment is not an option because Rogers (and every other major cable company) are moving to an all-IP-based service delivery model.  At some point down the road, the next-generation Rogers network infrastructure will not even carry TV channels anymore.



Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

Square
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Well then it's the Cloud which is not ready for Rogers Prime Time.  Bell is also an all IP service, yet they have no problem with DD 5.1 Surround Sound.   Any way, I cancelled Rogers at the end of the month, so thank you everyone for your help and advice!!

Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

Worked like a charm! Thanks Tony! You've saved me a lot of aggravation.

Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

PatrickJB
I Plan to Stick Around

Distorted audio with Dolby Digital on Ignite TV

 

I'm having an issue with audio on my Ignite TV set top box. I have a Sonos Beam sound bar connected to a Samsung smart TV via HDMI ARC. I'd like to be able to use Dolby Digital via auto-detect in the HDMI output settings, and initially when I set it it works fine. I'll watch for a while, then eventually turn the TV off when I'm done watching. When I turn it back on later, the sound is extremely distorted. It is monotone and choppy and robotic and very unpleasant, and I have to switch audio back to stereo to fix it.

Has anyone else experienced this and/or know what might be causing it? I'd really like to use my sound bar with my other Sonos speakers to create a proper surround sound setup, but having to switch the audio back and forth every time if I want to use Dolby Digital to do that is extremely irritating. Note: I can't use expert mode because I rely on the Voice Guidance feature, and expert mode doesn't support it. So I don't know if that would otherwise fix it.

Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

Hello, @PatrickJB

 

We appreciate you posting your concerns in the Community.

 

I know how important it is to have a good quality sound when enjoying your TV service. Nothing beats watching a movie in surround sound. 

 

If you are using a surround sound system usually the expert mode is recommended. Regrettably, I haven't got a surround sound system setup to test out the compatibility on my end. Our resident experts, @-G-, @Gdkitty may be able to shine more light on surround sound setups. I will also include a few others users who may be able to assist, @Biollw@Babylegs1, @Bplayer, @ColdGranite.

 

I am confident the Community will be able to provide some insight on a potential solution.

 

RogersTony

Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

Bplayer
I'm a Trusted Contributor

The problem is likely a handshake issue between the three devices. Check that you have the latest firmware installed on the TV and Sonos. Some alternatives that may work but likely have compromises:

- try an optical connection between the TV and Sonos rather than an HDMI cable

- leave the Sonos powered on all the time

Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@PatrickJB wrote:

Distorted audio with Dolby Digital on Ignite TV

 

I'm having an issue with audio on my Ignite TV set top box. I have a Sonos Beam sound bar connected to a Samsung smart TV via HDMI ARC. I'd like to be able to use Dolby Digital via auto-detect in the HDMI output settings, and initially when I set it it works fine. I'll watch for a while, then eventually turn the TV off when I'm done watching. When I turn it back on later, the sound is extremely distorted. It is monotone and choppy and robotic and very unpleasant, and I have to switch audio back to stereo to fix it.

Has anyone else experienced this and/or know what might be causing it? I'd really like to use my sound bar with my other Sonos speakers to create a proper surround sound setup, but having to switch the audio back and forth every time if I want to use Dolby Digital to do that is extremely irritating. Note: I can't use expert mode because I rely on the Voice Guidance feature, and expert mode doesn't support it. So I don't know if that would otherwise fix it.


Is the firmware on your TV and sound bar up to date?  Some troubleshooting tips in this article may also be helpful.

@57  may also have some additional tips and expertise to offer.

 

When using HDMI ARC, the TV relays (and may need to transcode) digital audio from the source to the return channel, and if all devices are not configured in a compatible manner, or if there are hardware/firmware bugs or incompatibilities between any of the devices along the chain, you can run into all sorts of weird issues, especially if one of the devices gets into the wrong state.



Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@PatrickJB : Since you're using a sound bar and not a true surround sound receiver, I suggest you stick with the "stereo" setting.  It will still give you surround sound when decoded by Dolby Pro Logic in the bar and there may be no audible difference, even if the original signal is discrete DD5.1.  Here's why I recommend this:

 

IgniteTV is weird in that you can get proper DD5.1 only from live or on demand programming. On cloud recordings, the signal is still DD5.1, however, only the LF & RF speakers are active.  I therefore recommend using the "stereo" setting so that all of your programming is decoded by the AVR/Sound Bar using DPLII to give you surround sound.  If you don't, then your recorded programming will only have audio out the LF & RF speakers (which may be causing the issues with your sound bar)

 

At some future time this may be fixed by Rogers/Comcast, but for now, that's an issue which has upset many people and also one of the issues that makes me wait to get IgniteTV.

 

As discussed in the following FAQ, item 4, the settings in your TV for audio out also need to be set to passthrough or raw instead of say PCM...  You can also try using "Expert" instead of the "auto" setting in the IgniteTV box, as the auto setting will shake hands with your TV instead of the AVR.  This may force DD5.1 to the AVR/sound bar with appropriate TV settings, however, the issue with improperly encoded DD5.1 from cloud recordings will still exist (Item 1 of the FAQ)

 

https://www.digitalhome.ca/threads/faq-whats-available-in-dd5-1.17870/

 

I would do this even with my AVR, under the current circumstances. It takes a really good ear and good DD5.1 programming to hear the difference between DPLII and DD5.1.  Most programming doesn't have enough discrete rear signals to make a difference....



Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound

PatrickJB
I Plan to Stick Around
Thanks for the responses. I was under the impression that simple stereo audio wouldn't be converted to surround, but I did some experimenting and found that it does work. It isn't quite the same because Sonos, not the original program, makes the call on what audio gets sent, but it's still a good experience.

Also, as it turns out, channels don't seem to offer video description in DD. Either that or it has the same bug as the cloud recordings, because with audio set to Dolby Digital, content with video description only played through my soundbar, whereas with audio set to stereo it behaves the same as when VD is off. I watched described content wherever available, so looks like stereo is the way to go.

Re: IgniteTV Surround Sound


@PatrickJB wrote:
Thanks for the responses. I was under the impression that simple stereo audio wouldn't be converted to surround, but I did some experimenting and found that it does work. It isn't quite the same because Sonos, not the original program, makes the call on what audio gets sent, but it's still a good experience.

Also, as it turns out, channels don't seem to offer video description in DD. Either that or it has the same bug as the cloud recordings, because with audio set to Dolby Digital, content with video description only played through my soundbar, whereas with audio set to stereo it behaves the same as when VD is off. I watched described content wherever available, so looks like stereo is the way to go.

I tripped over this post on another site, which may or may not be relevant to your issue:

https://en.community.sonos.com/setting-up-sonos-228990/linksys-routers-need-to-have-the-filter-multi...

 



Re: Ignite TV Surround Sound

Ferkner
I Plan to Stick Around
I just noticed tonight that surround wasn't working on recordings. Even though my Pioneer receiver was showing Dolby Digital and the surround speakers were displayed, I was only getting stereo. After reading through the last couple of pages, I fiddled with the different surround options on the recieved reciever and seemed on Extended Stereo. It fills my area with sound which is what I want.

Odd that this more advanced setup can't handle 5.1 properly but Rogers Digital handled 5.1 perfectly all the time, live or recorded. This on top of the terrible remote and the fast forward/rewind annoyance sort of makes me miss digital cable.

Re: Ignite TV Surround Sound

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@Ferkner wrote:
...I fiddled with the different surround options on the recieved reciever and seemed on Extended Stereo. It fills my area with sound which is what I want.

Please read post 95 of this thread again.  If you use "Extended Stereo" it will send similar audio to all the speakers, instead of having dialogue out the centre speaker and left front speaker audio out the LF speaker, etc.  Rather than doing what you did, set the Rogers box to output "stereo" and set the AVR to Dolby Pro Logic II. This will provide you with proper surround sound. In this way if someone enters a room in a movie from the rear left, you'll hear it from the rear left instead of from all the speakers.  Remember that lots of programming doesn't have any surround sound - like the news where dialogue will come out the center speaker only.  When properly set up you'll hear the audio as the audio engineer intended rather than simply "filling your room".



Re: Ignite TV Surround Sound

Ferkner
I Plan to Stick Around
That's still not proper surround sound. It's stereo sound that is faked into surround sound.

Re: Ignite TV Surround Sound

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@Ferkner : Actually, it is proper surround sound. The Dolby Pro Logic information is encoded within the stereo signal.  It is then decoded by the AVR to provide you with proper surround sound. You can compare it to DD5.1 and find little or no difference.   The sound that should go to the centre speaker will come out the centre speaker.  The sound that should come out the LF speaker comes out the LF speaker.  The sound that should come out the RF speaker comes out the RF speaker. The sound that should come out the rear speakers comes out the rear speakers.  If you use DPLII rather than DPL, the rear speakers will be sent signals for LR & RR.

 

DPL was utilized years ago before DD5.1 was developed and could be used for analogue audio signals, whereas DD5.1 required a digital connection like Optical, Coaxial Audio or HDMI.  It takes a really good DD5.1 signal to beat DPLII because the rear audio will be more discrete, however, that type of programming is quite rare and in most instances the difference between DD5.1 and DPLII is negligible.  

 

I suggest you search the web for information on DPL.  

 

https://ca.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrE1yGyzdhf4soA2XrqFAx.;_ylc=X1MDMjExNDcyMTAwMgRfcgMyBGZyA3...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Pro_Logic

 

The advantage of DD5.1 is that it has a discrete (the ".1") signal for the subwoofer.  However, most AVRs have a mechanism to generate the low frequency signal for transmission to a subwoofer and most people don't have the (expensive) speakers necessary to be able to tell the difference again.  Of course audiophiles would be able to understand all these nuances, but would not use "Extended Stereo" except perhaps for a music programme, but even for music, DPLII Music might be preferred.  The "DPLII Music" option spills some of the vocals to the LF & RF speakers to produce a wider soundstage than DPLII Cinema for example.  There may also be a small amount of reverb/echo in "Music" which may be distracting when listening to say a news programme. 



Re: Ignite TV Surround Sound

ColdGranite
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

 

I keep reading about this "Ignite Recordings do not support surround sound".... and I am a little confused.

 

My sound system is an older 6-speaker Sony  5.1 and PLII... and all 6 are active when I am playing a recording???

 Am I missing some interpretation of what is meant by "recordings do not support..."?



Re: Ignite TV Surround Sound

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@ColdGranite : Please read posts 95, 99, 101 of this thread.  It depends on the settings in your IgniteTV box and in your AVR.

 

With the proper settings in your Ignite TVBox (Stereo output instead of DD5.1 or Expert) and AVR (Dolby Pro Logic II), you will get proper surround sound from the cloud recordings, although not quite as discrete as say DD5.1.

 

With the improper settings, you will either get improperly encoded DD5.1 with sound out the LF & RF speakers only, or you will get sound out all your speakers, but not what the original audio engineer intended.

 

 



Re: Ignite TV Surround Sound

Ferkner
I Plan to Stick Around
I guess I'll be changing the settings on my AVR and the Ignite Box until they fix this issue (if they ever do). Thanks!

Re: Ignite TV Surround Sound

Hammer34
I've Been Here Awhile

I am running my ignite box through a Yamaha RX-V4A receiver.  The 5.1 surround sounds works fine when watching shows through regular broadcasts or through OnDemand.  However, when playing back a show recorded on a PVR the sound playback does not come through as surround.  Instead the sound only plays out of the front L and R speakers.  There are no obvious options available on the sound menu of the ignite box to deal with this.  All other sources into the receiver play the sound correctly - the issue is only with playback from the ignite PVR.  Any help or advice would be appreciated.