Ignite phone and home alarm system

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 34

Ignite phone and home alarm system

We got Ignite bundle installed last month. Rogers technician came home to setup Ignite internet router, Ignite TV box and phone. Our phone dmark point is in the basement near the electrical panel and that is where previous Rogers home phone box was mounted. Now when ignite bundle was installed, Rogers technician ripped apart everything in the basement and connected phone in our family room in the ignite modem. Even I did not realized that this guy has ripped apart everything in the basement  and messed my home alarm system which uses phone line.

Today, I got call from alarm company that my home alarm system failed self test with them. Then I realized that the guy messed up alarm system because there is no phone line connection down stairs anymore.

So now, how can I fix this issue. Can I plug the phone jack from family room and somehow patch it in dmark point to make alarm system line live or call Rogers?

I will appreciate your advice.

 

 

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Resident Expert
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Posts: 490

Re: Ignite phone and home alarm system


@rookie8155 wrote:

We got Ignite bundle installed last month. Rogers technician came home to setup Ignite internet router, Ignite TV box and phone. Our phone dmark point is in the basement near the electrical panel and that is where previous Rogers home phone box was mounted. Now when ignite bundle was installed, Rogers technician ripped apart everything in the basement and connected phone in our family room in the ignite modem. Even I did not realized that this guy has ripped apart everything in the basement  and messed my home alarm system which uses phone line.

Today, I got call from alarm company that my home alarm system failed self test with them. Then I realized that the guy messed up alarm system because there is no phone line connection down stairs anymore.

So now, how can I fix this issue. Can I plug the phone jack from family room and somehow patch it in dmark point to make alarm system line live or call Rogers?

I will appreciate your advice.


You need to call Rogers and have them send a technician to repair the damage that was done.

 

Your alarm system does not connect to your in-home wiring like an ordinary telephone.  The alarm company likely installed an RJ31X jack, which allows your alarm system to "seize" the telephone line, hang up the call if anyone had been using the phone, and place a call to the alarm company's central station.  The alarm will then release the line when its call is complete.

 

If you had Bell's home phone service, the install tech should have disconnected the incoming Bell line from your in-home telephone wiring.  Since you already had a Rogers Home Phone service, the tech should have installed the Ignite XB6 gateway in the basement in place of the original Rogers telephone equipment.

 

After the wiring for your telephone and alarm system have been repaired, you will need to test that everything is working properly.  Call the alarm company and have them put your account into test mode.  Trigger the alarm, ideally while somebody is using the telephone and a call is in progress.  When the alarm trips, you should see a "check telephone line" indicator on your phone (and/or hear the line go dead) while the alarm system places its call.  When the line becomes available again, try using the telephone to call the alarm company immediately.  You need to verify with them that they received the signal from your alarm.  You also need to do this to confirm that you are able to successfully make calls after the alarm system has seized and released the telephone line.



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 34

Re: Ignite phone and home alarm system

Thanks a lot for your advice. I really appreciate it.
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Posts: 3,176

Re: Ignite phone and home alarm system

One other item.  If your termination "block" for the various phone jacks in your home was not "dismantled", then all of the home jacks and perhaps the alarm system wires are still connected to that "block". If you now connect your Home phone modem using a standard telephone cable to a jack in your home, this should "backfeed" the entire system and you should be able to use any wired phone jack in the house, as well as the alarm system. I'm assuming you have a cordless phone set and can plug the base into another jack in the home instead of directly into the home phone modem.

 

Of course this assumes a properly wired jack system in your home, a functioning termination block for all those wires and the alarm wires.



Resident Expert
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Posts: 490

Re: Ignite phone and home alarm system

@57  If you have an alarm system, the incoming phone service (line from the Telephone port on the XB6) has to be wired into the tip and ring inputs of the RJ31X jack.  That's the only way that the alarm system can seize the line.



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Re: Ignite phone and home alarm system

I would agree with that.  The alarm system has to be the first connected device before the telephone wiring hits the 66 block.  That’s either done with the RJ31X jack that @-G- indicated, or, the alarm system it simply wired into the telephone cabling as shown below: 

 

Telephone source device ->  Alarm System  ->  66 Block  ->  All of the house phones

 

In this configuration, the telephone cabling runs thru the alarm system.  The alarm system does nothing unless there is some event that triggers it.  When that happens, the alarm system seizes the line, or disconnects the current call and dials the alarm centre.  It can only do this if its wired into the system so that it has priority over all of the telephones connected to the 66 block, if in fact that priority is needed some day.  We’re only talking about two wires, usually a Blue/White and White/Blue pair.  That’s a blue wire with white striping, and a white wire with blue striping.  Its possible that the wire pair is a blue wire paired with a white cable with blue striping.  The remaining pairs of the Cat 3 or Cat 5 cable wouldn’t be used. 

 

In that event that the alarm system triggers, the system looks like this while the alarm system is dialing out, disconnecting the 66 block and the house phones:

 

Telephone source device <-  Alarm System

 

As @57 indicates, if the tech did nothing but uninstall the Home Phone modem, then you should be left with this:

 

Alarm System  ->  66 Block  ->  All of the house phones

 

The tech would have connected the XB6 modem phone port as follows

 

Alarm System  ->  66 Block  ->  The rest of the house phones

                                                  -> XB6 modem located located upstairs. 

 

In that configuration the alarm system should be able to dial out I believe, but, it can’t seize the telephone line as required. 

 

In reference to the RJ31X jack, as indicated by @-G-, here’s a reference worth looking at:

 

http://wiki.gohts.com/tiki-index.php?page=How+to+Wire+an+RJ31X+Jack

 

have a look at the second wiring diagram that shows the Telco Line and House Phones.  In this case, with that jack installed, the previous Home Phone modem would be wired in as the Telco Line.  The House Phone line would run to the 66 block which is then connected to all of the house phones.  Key point here is that the telephone line runs thru the alarm system as shown on the left hand side of that diagram, into the alarm system thru the Phone Line, out of the Alarm System via the House Line.  Either way, by cutting and patching into the phone cable from the old Home Phone modem to the 66 block, or by using the RJ31X jack, the alarm system is installed with priority over the house phones. 

 

Along comes the XB6 modem which is installed upstairs, creating a problem.  Simple way to resolve this is to move one wire pair.  Identify the individual wire pair on the 66 block that runs upstairs to the XB6 modem.  Disconnect that wire pair from the 66 block and wire that into the previous Telco Line pins on the RJ31X jack, or into the wire pair that connected to the previous Home Phone modem.  Done.  Remember, we’re only talking about two wires, normally the Blue/White and White/Blue pair. 

 

With that done, keep this in mind.  The XB6 modem comes with two RJ-11 jacks for telephone usage.  Tech support is supposed to be able to set both ports to the same number, so, in theory, you should be able to use the two phone ports, one port connected to the house telephone system, and one port connected to a telephone / cordless phone base.  While that should work, I think it would be problematic for alarm systems where the alarm system has to seize the telephone line when required. 

 

Another way to do this is to look at the house telephone cable that runs between the modem and the 66 block.  It should be a Cat 3 or Cat 5 where only one wire pair of four pairs is actually used.  Usually that’s the blue/white, white/blue pair.  That leaves three other pairs.  So, with a little work, you could use the blue/white, white/blue pair as indicated above to wire the XB6 modem into the alarm system, and then use one of the other wire pairs to run back upstairs to the same location.  If you happen to have a wallplate that holds keystones for telephone/Ethernet/cable, you can simply wire that selected pair into the white/blue, blue/white pins of a new (additional) keystone and install the keystone into a wallplate with an additional slot for the new keystone.  That’s a little work, but, it’s not terribly difficult.  The cable run is already there, and if there’s enough slack in the cable, or the other wires are wrapped back along the cable, then you would be able to make use of one of the other wire pairs as a return line back upstairs where its used to connect to a telephone at the modem's location.  At the 66 block, you would probably need a short jumper cable to connect to the alarm system or connect one of the other wire pairs to the 66 block.  Its not normal to split a cable in this manner, so there probably isn't enough cable length available to both the alarm system and 66 block, hence the need for a short jumper cable.  I suspect that is something that a Rogers tech will not be willing to do.  You can buy the keystone(s) and wallplate if required and call in an alarm installer or cable installer to do the work, so there would be a cost involved.  There are variations of a theme, so to speak depending on how the house telephone cabling is punched down onto the 66 block.  If the other wire pairs are already punched down, then its a matter of removing the blue/white, white/blue pair and connecting them to the alarm system, and then cross connecting the chosen wire pair to run back upstairs.  At the upstairs electrical box, connect the selected pair to the blue/white, white/blue pins on the keystone.  So, it helps to know you're way around the 66 block and what can be done to use more than one wire pair in the Cat 3 or Cat 5 cable to run downstairs and back up again to the modem's location. 

 



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Re: Ignite phone and home alarm system


@Datalink wrote:

The tech would have connected the XB6 modem phone port as follows

 

Alarm System  ->  66 Block  ->  The rest of the house phones

                                                  -> XB6 modem located located upstairs. 

 

In that configuration the alarm system should be able to dial out I believe, but, it can’t seize the telephone line as required. 


Actually, this won't work if the wiring was left as-is and with the XB6 telephone port connected to the 66 block.  First of all, the alarm system would not be getting dial tone from the 66 block so it would not be able to call out.  Furthermore, when it does try to call out, it would be "cutting off" the 66 block when it seizes the line, in which case it definitely would not be getting dial tone.



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Re: Ignite phone and home alarm system

Yes, buuut, in theory I would agree, but, who knows if the alarm system is built to actually run in that configuration and will simply use whats available on either side of the alarm telephone connectors.  You would have to know the alarm system model number and know how it was built, so, I leave it open to speculation and trial.  If it works, yay, if not, no surprise, resort to plan B, or C, etc, etc. 



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Re: Ignite phone and home alarm system

All that we really know right now (and all that really matters) is that the alarm system is not able to call out anymore.  @rookie8155  needs a knowledgeable tech that can get the installation back into a good working state again.



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Re: Ignite phone and home alarm system

Hello, I am not only a Rogers Resident Expert, I am also a former Alarm System Installer, as well as a former non-partisan Telecommunications Cabling Technician.

Ideally, for any replacement home phone service, they "ideally" and should be placed in the vicinity of your Hydro Panel where the Existing Telecommunications lines enter the house or building. This is the recommended way to install a standard Phone Line. The big difference is the Ignite modem is not just a Home Phone Device, it also provides Internet, Wifi, and IPTV service. So ideally they do not recommend to install the Ignite gateway where the Telecommunications lines enter the house or building (normally beside your Hydro Panel).

This now complicates the install. And no body wants to have sub-par service so they ideally want the Ignite modem gateway in a more central location of house so it provides sufficient wireless coverage, as well as its located conveniently close to any Television sets as well as Wired computers and peripherals such as printers, switches, etc.

It also can back-feed the dial-tone into your existing wire, which will satisfy the majority of customers. For customers who have an Alarm System monitored by the phone line, this will pose a challenge to both Rogers AND the Alarm Company. The alarm company can fix this but and a big but, they normally Almost ALWAYS charge to come out and re-wire when a change has been made to your phone line and / or connections. Switching from Rogers Digital Home Phone service to Rogers Ignite Home Phone service constitutes this change because of the possible relocation of the modem and how it impacts your service. Most people don't think about this when they order it, but someone like me who is a trained and certified technician always think about these scenarios.

Rogers may also possibly come out to rectify this but its not a guarantee. They can attempt to "try" and connect it in a way where your alarm system will continue to work but in the end of the day, they can not guarantee this nor will they provide compensation for loss of connectivity to your alarm as its the home owners responsibility which is a polite way of saying you need to pay your alarm tech to do this if rogers can not rectify it.

Because of the different way houses are wired for home phone, some being star topology and some having dedicated runs to each phone outlet will determine the complexity of getting this to work. For the alarm to work properly, it must "seize" the home phone, meaning it will call out even if you left the phone off the hook. because of this requirement, you CAN install the ignite modem in a bedroom or anywhere in your house if you have a dedicated phone line run from the phone outlet all the way to the termination block in your hydro panel. if you have star topology where all the phone jacks are daisy chained, then no you cant easily do this and its possible you have to run a whole NEW wire from the alarm RJ31X block to your home phone modem, so if the modem is on the 2nd floor of your house and your Alarm system and RJ31X are in the basement near your hydro panel, you would have to run a NEW phone line all the way upstairs, and normally they dont fish it inside your walls, unless you pay a premium, so that can mean wires run outside your house along the brick or inside your house stapled to your baseboards and drywall and trim.

This is 100% NOT something i would recommend to the average DIY'er so I strongly recommend you hire a professional telecom technician or your alarm company to do this type of work. I did it myself only because I had years of training and experience but its def something you do not want to attempt yourself if you have zero experience and zero knowledge.