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Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

Just had a new install, and was under the impression that the wireless signal min was something better than -70 db (with mid 60's probably being the norm). The furthest box is currently showing a -83 db wireless signal and I've had at least one full drop - off (image froze, and reported a lost signal), but have only noticed a single "glitch/hiccup" besides that.

 

My understanding is that rogers will install one of their pucks for free if the signal is too low, but I don't know what they'd consider to be a low signal.

 

Any ideas? (I'm also under the impression that their "pucks" are on back order here in Moncton anyways.)

 

 

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Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@sswilson  Once the Ignite STBs have obtained their Wi-Fi credentials, they will use those to connect to the network over and over again.  If they fail to connect, then they will contact the LnF service on the gateway to try to obtain new Wi-Fi credentials, and if that fails, then they will prompt you to enter Wi-Fi credentials manually.  There is also a "magic" key sequence that you can use to enter new Wi-Fi credentials manually.  However, keep in mind that the STBs are quirky, and were designed to connect to the gateway's Wi-Fi, so if you try to connect them to a different Wi-Fi network name than what is configured in the gateway, and if they should ever drop off of Wi-Fi, then they will try to reconnect to an AP using the credentials that they obtain via LnF.

 

If you have good Wi-Fi connectivity in your home with the Ubiquiti APs, and you are using the Ignite gateway as your router, you can configure a secondary network on your APs for your Ignite set-top boxes with the same credentials as what you have configured in your gateway.  Then disable the internal Wi-Fi on the Ignite gateway and reboot your set-top boxes.  The set-top boxes should then connect to Wi-Fi through your APs.

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Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

More info that might be pertinent....

 

The actual drop-off (as opposed to just a "glitch") was caused by doing a speedtest which saturated the upload channel. So far I'm not having any luck finding QoS settings that would allow me to set physical limits to the upload bandwidth available to the network ports (only the set top boxes are connected to the modem, the rest of the household is connected through APs).

 

Are there any QoS settings on this modem? If so, how can I access them to prevent possible saturation of the upload channel?

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@sswilson wrote:

Just had a new install, and was under the impression that the wireless signal min was something better than -70 db (with mid 60's probably being the norm). The furthest box is currently showing a -83 db wireless signal and I've had at least one full drop - off (image froze, and reported a lost signal), but have only noticed a single "glitch/hiccup" besides that.


If you are seeing an RSSI of -80 dBm, then that device is barely able to maintain its Wi-Fi connection.  Even worse, it's network connection will have a VERY low data rate, and that means that it will require much more air time to transmit or receive the same amount of data as another device on the network that has a strong Wi-Fi connection.  All devices on a Wi-Fi network operate on the same channel and only one device (including the AP itself) can transmit at a time... so if you have too many active devices with weak connections to the AP, the performance of your entire Wi-Fi network will suffer.

 

Furthermore, the Ignite set-top box requires approximately 10 Mb/s of network bandwidth in order to receive an HD channel.  If the STB depletes its internal buffers and runs out of data to process, then you will either get audio/video drop-outs , a black screen, or the network stream may drop altogether.

 

My understanding is that rogers will install one of their pucks for free if the signal is too low, but I don't know what they'd consider to be a low signal.

 

Any ideas? (I'm also under the impression that their "pucks" are on back order here in Moncton anyways.)


Rogers used to provide one Ignite WiFi Pod free of change to Ignite TV customers but my understanding is that this is no longer the case.  Customers are now charged a rental fee for each Pod.

 

If you do opt to install Pods, find a location with a wall outlet where the Pod will be able to connect back to the Ignite gateway with a signal strength of -67 dBm or better.  The Pod needs to be placed in a location where the connecting devices can get a good Wi-Fi connection to the Pod.  However, if the Pod itself does not have a good connection to the gateway, then you could end up with more Wi-Fi performance problems than you had before.

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@sswilson wrote:

More info that might be pertinent....

 

The actual drop-off (as opposed to just a "glitch") was caused by doing a speedtest which saturated the upload channel. So far I'm not having any luck finding QoS settings that would allow me to set physical limits to the upload bandwidth available to the network ports (only the set top boxes are connected to the modem, the rest of the household is connected through APs).

 

Are there any QoS settings on this modem? If so, how can I access them to prevent possible saturation of the upload channel?


The Ignite gateways do not have any QoS settings that you can change.  Based on what you described, enabling QoS would not be the right solution either.  I can run speed tests constantly and transfer huge files and it will not impact my Ignite TV streams, even with multiple set-top boxes actively streaming.

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

@-G- wrote:

@sswilson wrote:

Just had a new install, and was under the impression that the wireless signal min was something better than -70 db (with mid 60's probably being the norm). The furthest box is currently showing a -83 db wireless signal and I've had at least one full drop - off (image froze, and reported a lost signal), but have only noticed a single "glitch/hiccup" besides that.


If you are seeing an RSSI of -80 dBm, then that device is barely able to maintain its Wi-Fi connection.  Even worse, it's network connection will have a VERY low data rate, and that means that it will require much more air time to transmit or receive the same amount of data as another device on the network that has a strong Wi-Fi connection.  All devices on a Wi-Fi network operate on the same channel and only one device (including the AP itself) can transmit at a time... so if you have too many active devices with weak connections to the AP, the performance of your entire Wi-Fi network will suffer.

 

Furthermore, the Ignite set-top box requires approximately 10 Mb/s of network bandwidth in order to receive an HD channel.  If the STB depletes its internal buffers and runs out of data to process, then you will either get audio/video drop-outs , a black screen, or the network stream may drop altogether.

 

My understanding is that rogers will install one of their pucks for free if the signal is too low, but I don't know what they'd consider to be a low signal.

 

Any ideas? (I'm also under the impression that their "pucks" are on back order here in Moncton anyways.)


Rogers used to provide one Ignite WiFi Pod free of change to Ignite TV customers but my understanding is that this is no longer the case.  Customers are now charged a rental fee for each Pod.

 

If you do opt to install Pods, find a location with a wall outlet where the Pod will be able to connect back to the Ignite gateway with a signal strength of -67 dBm or better.  The Pod needs to be placed in a location where the connecting devices can get a good Wi-Fi connection to the Pod.  However, if the Pod itself does not have a good connection to the gateway, then you could end up with more Wi-Fi performance problems than you had before.


It's definitely not an issue with the amount of wireless devices connecting to the SSID. The TV boxes are the only wireless devices connecting to the modem, all of the rest of my wireless devices are connecting to ubiquiti APs and thus through a lan port.

 

Are you saying that their pucks are Powerline based? That's not ideal.... I've got an older house and only very specific plug pairings work for it. It'd be much better if I could just run a long network cable for a wired connection (my setup is in a basement and I've already got network cables running in place).

 

I noticed the devices appear to be connecting via "my" ssid as opposed to a hidden network.... I wonder if they'll connect to the same SSID/Password if I create the same network on one of my APs....  (something to try).

 

Checked this morning and the signal was a bit better (cycling between -71 and -77) I'll have a look at the channels being used in the area (my AP network does a scan every night) and maybe there's a better channel option I can set the modem to.

 

edit: No go on the "create the same network on a closer AP" front. It must limit itself to connecting to something that recognizes the WPS connect function.

 

I'll keep an eye on it... as it stands I'm not seeing any obvious artifacting on the video stream so I doubt they'd send a tech out just because I happen to know how to check my connection strength levels.

 

I've placed limits on the max upload throughput my AP network can put out and for the moment will refrain from doing speedtests on my wired PCs until I figure out what's going on.

 

 

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@sswilson  I'm really confused now.  In your initial posts, you never mentioned that you were using any 3rd-party Wi-Fi APs or that you were using any 3rd-party equipment in your design.  It sounded like you had a single Ignite gateway, that provided ALL of the network connectivity in your home, and that you were trying to resolve some significant Wi-Fi connectivity problems... and were trying to obtain some "pucks" to fix those problems.

 


I noticed the devices appear to be connecting via "my" ssid as opposed to a hidden network.... I wonder if they'll connect to the same SSID/Password if I create the same network on one of my APs....  (something to try).


I think that you misunderstand how the Ignite set-top boxes operate.  In a normal installation, with no 3rd-party network gear, you configure the Ignite gateway and configure its Wi-Fi network.  When you power up a new set-top box, it accesses a service on the Ignite gateway (via one of those hidden SSIDs), and that service enables the STB to obtain the Wi-Fi credentials for your in-home network and connect to it.

 

You can also run Ignite TV set-top boxes over your own network gear.  (I have my XB7 in bridge mode and am using my own OpenWrt router and business grade Access Points.). It's an unsupported configuration (from a Rogers perspective) but works perfectly fine.

 

You can also run your Ignite gateway in "gateway" mode, disable its Wi-Fi, use external APs, and connect your Ignite set-top boxes that way as well.

 

 

If you have the same Wi-Fi credentials configured in an external AP as you do in the Ignite gateway, you could find that the Ignite set-top boxes connect to the external AP.

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

Sorry for the confusion....  🙂

 

I do have a pretty good idea of how the STBs work, I just wasn't sure if they'd pick up the same ssid on another AP without having to rely on WPS connect functionality.

 

The way I have the system currently set up is that all my personal internal network connections (including wifi PCs and IoT stuff) connect through a single line out from the modem which goes to an ubiquiti switch and then out from there to another switch and a couple of APs. That way I can use my cloud key to monitor my internal network's connectivity.

 

The only wifi devices connected to the Rogers gateway modem's SSID are the 5 STBs and one of those STBs is at the far end of the house (and up a floor) from the ignite modem. That's the device which currently shows -71 - -81 db via the stb's diagnostic screen and is reported as -81 in the modem's connected devices screen.

 

That's the only device I'm concerned with.

 

I tried creating a wireless network on the AP closest to the problem child with no luck. The STB did not connect to the AP in spite of a much stronger signal. I suspect the TV boxes will only connect via a WPS connect function and Ubiquiti doesn't provide that option so it might work if I a person wants to use their own router (so long as it has a WPS connect function), but that isn't something I really want to get into (although I wouldn't argue if a ubiquiti dream machine showed up at my door....  🙂 ).

 

Upload throughput saturation isn't something I've seen for quite some time (I was a HSI technical support agent in 2009) but it's something we used to see in the early days of torrenting when torrent clients defaulted to uploading at the max throughput they could get... upload requirements for the great majority of functions are super minimal (essentially just a confirmation handshake back and forth) but if something's hogging all of the upload bandwidth it can cause major lag on the whole system.

 

That said.... I suspect the issue has resolved itself over night. Last night I was able to replicate the problem at will by just running a speedtest. This morning I've run several speedtests and have been unable to trigger a failed stream (last night I'd get the "check your wireless connection" prompt on the TV). Maybe the rogers gateway did some of it's magic automatic QoS background stuff and marked the STBs as highest priority, or it's using a different wifi channel that's providing a slightly better connection between the STB and the gateway.

 

Thanks for your time. 

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@sswilson  Once the Ignite STBs have obtained their Wi-Fi credentials, they will use those to connect to the network over and over again.  If they fail to connect, then they will contact the LnF service on the gateway to try to obtain new Wi-Fi credentials, and if that fails, then they will prompt you to enter Wi-Fi credentials manually.  There is also a "magic" key sequence that you can use to enter new Wi-Fi credentials manually.  However, keep in mind that the STBs are quirky, and were designed to connect to the gateway's Wi-Fi, so if you try to connect them to a different Wi-Fi network name than what is configured in the gateway, and if they should ever drop off of Wi-Fi, then they will try to reconnect to an AP using the credentials that they obtain via LnF.

 

If you have good Wi-Fi connectivity in your home with the Ubiquiti APs, and you are using the Ignite gateway as your router, you can configure a secondary network on your APs for your Ignite set-top boxes with the same credentials as what you have configured in your gateway.  Then disable the internal Wi-Fi on the Ignite gateway and reboot your set-top boxes.  The set-top boxes should then connect to Wi-Fi through your APs.

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

@-G- wrote:

@sswilson  Once the Ignite STBs have obtained their Wi-Fi credentials, they will use those to connect to the network over and over again.  If they fail to connect, then they will contact the LnF service on the gateway to try to obtain new Wi-Fi credentials, and if that fails, then they will prompt you to enter Wi-Fi credentials manually.  There is also a "magic" key sequence that you can use to enter new Wi-Fi credentials manually.  However, keep in mind that the STBs are quirky, and were designed to connect to the gateway's Wi-Fi, so if you try to connect them to a different Wi-Fi network name than what is configured in the gateway, and if they should ever drop off of Wi-Fi, then they will try to reconnect to an AP using the credentials that they obtain via LnF.

 

If you have good Wi-Fi connectivity in your home with the Ubiquiti APs, and you are using the Ignite gateway as your router, you can configure a secondary network on your APs for your Ignite set-top boxes with the same credentials as what you have configured in your gateway.  Then disable the internal Wi-Fi on the Ignite gateway and reboot your set-top boxes.  The set-top boxes should then connect to Wi-Fi through your APs.


Ahhhh, perfect. Easy enough to set up a dedicated network on my APs with multicast selected and then try turning off the wifi on the gateway. Sounds like that might do the trick.

 

Thanks for the info.

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@sswilson wrote:


Ahhhh, perfect. Easy enough to set up a dedicated network on my APs with multicast selected and then try turning off the wifi on the gateway. Sounds like that might do the trick.

 

Thanks for the info.


My pleasure!  FYI, Ignite TV is delivered as a unicast stream over HTTP, similar to how Netflix and Prime Video operate, so there is no need to enable helpers or any other special support for multicast.

 

Hopefully, the Ignite WiFi Hub back-end won't try to re-enable WiFi after you explicitly disable it.  If it does, contact Rogers support and tell them that you need to be able to disable Wi-Fi on the gateway because you are using external APs in your home.  (If they tell you that they can't do this, then say that you need to be in a similar configuration as customers who run Ignite TV on an external eero WiFi mesh.)

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

Good to know. That makes it a lot easier to consider getting myself some form of network appliance / edge router and putting the gateway into bridge mode. Bell's setup didn't allow for that and afaik it was a fair bit of work to get their set top boxes to connect to a third party AP (if not completely impossible).

 

edit: and apparently I used the word that "heck" is typically used to replace???  😉

 

My 2 APs aren't wifi 6, but I get solid coverage throughout the house (and almost a block away because of the LR...  😉 ) with 200+ DL on my upstairs laptop.

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

Sooooo.......

 

I think I've got this working but it's a bit daunting with the current modem settings......  🙂

 

There doesn't appear to be an option to disable the wireless without putting the modem in bridge mode, but I don't want my modem in bridge mode since I don't have a third party router to do the gateway functions (only APs and the controller for them).

 

So I put the modem into bridge mode which disabled the wifi, but then turned it on within a minute of turning it off. The STBs lost the connection to the gateway when it was turned off but automatically reconnected to the strongest signal with those credentials which happened to be the network I set up on my two APs.

 

The "problem child" is now showing -55 dbm in the box's diagnostic screen. Which is perfectly fine in my books considering it's on a different floor.

 

Hopefully this all sticks and the STBs reconnect to the strongest network even after a power failure.

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

 

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

In hindsight, I wonder if I could have just pulled power on the modem so that the modem's wifi wasn't available?

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

I think I spoke too soon. Looks like all of the tv boxes reconnected to the gateway overnight.

 

Not currently able to log into the gateway (shows the login page but hangs during login) and don't want to power cycle the modem until later this evening when my better half is done watching tv.

 

edit: So a power cycle did return the STBs to the ubiquiti APs. I'll have to check tomorrow to see if perhaps there's some kind of system reset going on overnight that's causing them to switch back to the modem's wifi.

 

Even using the modem's wifi, the furthest STB was reporting 74 which is far from ideal, but a . of a lot better than 81/83

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@sswilson  I don't know why this is happening but I suspect that it is because you were not able to disable Wi-Fi on the Ignite gateway... otherwise, all that you should have to do is reboot (power-cycle) the set-top box and it should then connect to the optimal AP.

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

I'll keep an eye on it. I believe one of the guides you provided mentioned possibly having to call in to tech support and asking them to disable wifi on their end. I'm guessing not being able to turn off the wifi is related to their implementation of TV boxes. On the bell system, the boxes connect to a hidden ssid that's not tied to the user configurable wifi SSID and you can turn off the public wifi but the tv boxes will still get a signal.

 

edit: It might even be related to my AP's overnight channel scanning. Maybe the APs are unavailable for a short period of time while they scan neighbouring wifi signals and the STBs are connecting to the router during that time period.

 

If that's the case I can just disable the AP's channel scanning feature. (or even change the ssid of the modem.... so that the tv boxes' credentials no longer match the modems... )

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

Hrmmmm.......

 

Not sure why I didn't see it before. The option to turn wifi off is under the 2.4 & 5Ghz "edit" buttons. I've now got them turned off so there shouldn't be any way for the stbs to reconnect to the gateway.

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

sswilson
I Plan to Stick Around

Ongoing update:

 

It's been a couple of nights without issue (still connected to the APs and reporting mid 50s dbm on the TV boxes), and the TV boxes / gateway survived a full on 5 hr power outage without having an issue coming back up.

 

Next up, I'm going to try changing the gateway's wifi SSID so that I can enable it for wifi use when the power goes out (the gateway is on a small UPS).

 

Bottom line... if anybody comes across this thread in the future... looks like once the boxes are tied to the SSID they're first registered to and will have no problems connecting to that SSID on a third party AP if you turn off the gateway's wifi (under the wifi edit button for both 2.4 and 5Ghz channels).

Re: Ignite TV box @ -81 db?

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@sswilson wrote:

 

...I'm going to try changing the gateway's wifi SSID so that I can enable it for wifi use when the power goes out (the gateway is on a small UPS).


Be aware that you can do what you want regarding power outages at your home, however, if the power goes out in your neighbourhood, it is highly likely that the Rogers node near your home will go down and there will be no Ignite services (TV, Internet, Home Phone), getting to your location.  These nodes used to have battery backups, however, most do not any more due to the expense.  This topic has been discussed many times in other threads where people think that by having their equipment on a UPS they will still have Rogers services, whereas that is probably not the case.



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