Ignite: Is There any Privacy?

[doughty]

I've resisted switching to Ignite because unlike cable, Rogers keeps a record of what you watch on Ignite. I've called Rogers several times to find out what the privacy policy is - what they do with that information and whether they sell it to third parties. When I ask the question, the "help" people at like I'm speaking Greek. I can get no clear answer.  I'm already wary of Rogers attitude toward privacy since I discovered that they had recorded my voice for verification without my permission, and I can't find out what they've done with the recording when I told them to stop. 

I'm hoping that someone with knowledge will see this post and provide information.

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[57]

With digital cable Rogers was already capable of knowing what you watched when, etc. They use this information "anonymously" to supposedly better their service, bitrates, etc.  Anything sold to "third parties" is anonymized, per the links below:

Here are Rogers TOS:

https://www.rogers.com/cms/pdf/en/Rogers-Terms-of-Service-Acceptable-Use-Policy-and-Privacy-Policy-e...

Section 8 is on privacy, also page 24 onwards.  See the following FAQ:

https://www.rogers.com/customer/support/article/privacyfaq

More with links...   https://www.rogers.com/consumer/privacy-policy?setLanguage=en

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In the case of Ignite TV and privacy, nothing in their Terms of Service prevents Rogers from collecting data about what you watch, when you watch it, the platforms/devices that you watch it on, etc.  Things get messy and complicated because Comcast is also a partner when it comes to delivering the Ignite TV service, as are other 3rd-party service providers.

Comcast built the Xfinity X1 platform to meet their specific needs.  IIRC, with Xfinity TV, Comcast collects a ton of data from their customers, including interaction data and what buttons get pressed on the remote control.  Also, in order to comply with some state laws, Comcast allows (some of?) their customers to opt out of what data is collected and how it is used.  Presumably, this is also reflective of the information that the Xfinity and Ignite platforms are capable of collecting.  Also, here's how the Comcast X1 platform can be leveraged by content providers to optimize ad delivery: https://www.effectv.com/advertising/xfinity/

The full scope of what the X1 platform is collecting is hidden from the public and only available to registered developers and licensees of the platform, and is presumably protected by non-disclosure agreements.  Comcast used to have a publicly-available page touting the analytics that can be performed and the "advantages" of their platform (vs. their competitors, such as Media First and Minerva Networks) that service providers and partners can leverage and monetize, but that content is no longer available.  Rogers has not disclosed to what extent they use the data available to them to build profiles of their customers or if they have any plans to, for example, inject targeted ads into on-demand content.

Ignite TV collects data about everything that you watch so that it can recommend content to you.  Some of this can be disabled in privacy settings on the set-top box.  You can also mark some content as Unwatched.  However, there is no way for you to "clear the history" of everything that you have watched on Ignite TV.

I don't know to what extent Rogers uses the viewership data that they collect internally but they do disclose the information they they share with other parties.

Rogers will also use the technical data that they have collected for capacity planning and to measure, maintain and hopefully improve quality of service.

As @57 mentioned, the legacy Digital Cable platform also keeps track of everything that you watch, when you watch, etc.

All that said, as a Canadian company in a regulated industry, Rogers still needs to comply with all applicable Canadian laws.

[doughty]

I've read the Rogers privacy policy and it is so vague that the is literally meaningless. 

I am shocked to learn that they have been collecting data on my viewing habits through cable. Silly me, I forgot this is Canada where there are virtually no meaningful privacy laws. In the US, collecting this information without explicit consent is expressly forbidden by the US by a 1984 bill which says

(b) Collection of personally identifiable information using cable system

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), a cable operator shall not use the cable system to collect personally identifiable information concerning any subscriber without the prior written or electronic consent of the subscriber concerned.
(2) A cable operator may use the cable system to collect such information in order to—
obtain information necessary to render a cable service or other service provided by the cable operator to the subscriber; or
detect unauthorized reception of cable communications.

Of course, there is huge loophole here, too when it specifies " personally identifiable information." Research has repeatedly shown that there is no such thing as anonymized data. 

Can anyone recommend a good TV antenna?

[57]

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@doughty wrote: Can anyone recommend a good TV antenna?

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Read the following welcome thread, then post your Rabbit Ears or similar results with your location into the appropriate Reception Results Thread in that forum.  The experts there will provide you with feedback on an appropriate antenna.

https://www.digitalhome.ca/threads/welcome-to-new-members-read-these-ota-forum-instructions-before-p...

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@doughty  Okay, but keep in mind that an Internet Service Provider will also maintain logs of your traffic.  Streaming services will log of all the content that you watch.  On web sites, advertisers not only measure engagement but the ad networks also do whatever they can to track the sites that you visit, and even track your activity across multiple devices.

In the end, you need to understand that service providers need to log data as part of delivering their services to you.  It may be simply to understand how you use their service so that they can provide you with better service.  Some service providers are also required by law to log certain information.  There has to be a level of trust with the companies that you do business with and whose products and services you use.  If you don't trust the company, then don't use their products or services.

I'm not overly concerned that Rogers knows what TV channels get watched in my home.  However, if they were to build a profile about me and start injecting targeted ads onto my TV screen, or mess with my Internet traffic in any way, then that would cross a line.

[doughty]

This is utter rot. First, if you use a VPN or TOR, then your ISP gets no information. Second, The idea that companies need to provide your privacy to improve their service can, and is, used to justify their recording every aspect of your life. If this were actually true, then their privacy policy should say in black and white that they will not sell your data to third parties. (Even then, they would still have to hand it over to the government if demanded.) But they don't because it's just an excuse to collect data about you that they can sell. The expression "data is the new oil" is absolutely spot on. If you think that this is paranoia, you read about HBO is sells the viewing habits of their subscribers to Facebook.  That is why I am concerned about Rogers recording my viewing habits.   

People fail to see the harm in any of this need to open their eyes. I suggest you look at videos channels such as Techlore, Ron Braxman, etc. that discuss the consequences of of this massive invasion of privacy. I would advise using Indivious instances such as yewtu.be or inv.riverside.rocks. These are front ends for viewing youtube  videos that prevent Google from collecting information about you viewing habits.   

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@doughty Even with a VPN, you still need to trust your VPN provider.

If you want your TV viewing habits to remain private, your only (legal) options are to either connect an antenna to your TV and watch over-the-air programming or satellite; just don't connect your satellite receiver to Wi-Fi or to a telephone line.

As for what Rogers does with any viewership data that is collected from any of their TV platforms, as far as I know, I it is mainly to measure viewership of channels in programming packages (so that they can structure packages to better meet the needs of their customers and to improve profitability, and so that they can get rid of channels with very low viewership) and I believe that they also share aggregate viewership data in key markets with the Numeris/Neilsen audience measurement services.

Rogers also has a Privacy Centre page with links to how you can request access to any personal information that they retain.

Regarding your point about privacy policies, I agree that there needs to be better transparency about what data is collected, how it is used, what is shared and with whom, etc. ...and this applies to all companies and service providers.