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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 78

Re: Signing in to the forum

Rogers site authentication is portal wide, not forum specific. They seems to hire a stand alone company to develop the portal, and their contract might stipulate enough funding just for one primary browser, like Chrome. Hence, for all we know the developer might intentionally introduce random authentication error to encourage Rogers community to use Chrome by trial and error, so devs can spend less money fixing things and developing a new portal. That would explain stubborn lack of desire to actually fix things rather than extend promises or ignore requests. I suspect, a complaint to Rogers Ombudsman about a large subscribers pool treated unfairly and unable to obtain paid for or provide free timely support would push things. The timeframe to fix the issue was given more than enough, but nothing was fixed, likely never looked at over the years. Note, they also never replied with any specifics, but will have to reply to the Ombudsman with some time estimates and reasons of failure to fix.

Retired Moderator RogersRoland
Retired Moderator
Posts: 686

Re: Signing in to the forum

Hey Community,

 

Our team is still investigating the root cause of the sign in issue, or what I like to refer to as the red screen of doom. Unfortunately, due to the random nature of the issue, the support teams have been unable to successfully reproduce the issue at a whim.

 

If possible, can you provide me with a few examples of:

 

  • Time the issue occurs / every attempt
  • Browser/OS used

 

Hopefully with more precise data, the support teams can fully resolve this issue.

 

Thanks!

 

RogersRoland

 

 

PS. @arnym21  Our team uses Chrome, IE and Firefox when overseeing changes and updates to the Community. We would in no way restrict you to use a specific browser. Hope this clears up some confusion.

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 2,289

Re: Signing in to the forum

I believe I've supplied the following information before.  Most of the time I use Firefox (latest version which has changed several times in the past few months) on my Mac Mini running OS10.10.5. 

 

However, I've also encountered it on this computer with Safari (latest version).  I've also encountered it on my MacBook Pro using FF & Safari, however, I don't use that computer much - only when travelling.

 

As for a pattern - I haven't encountered one. It happens at peak times, but also at quiet times like midnight or after.  It has "gone away" a couple of times for 10-12 days, but then comes back and affects almost every attempted login for 1-2-3 days.  I haven't been affected today for example but was affected any time of day a few days ago - see my previous recent posts. 



Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 2,289

Re: Signing in to the forum

I went back through my posts in this thread and here are the results for me.

 

There were no issues with Authentication Failed from approximately October 13 to October 23.  On October 24 the most recent spate of the issue began and was the worst we've ever seen it.  That lasted to November 1.  I haven't encountered the issue November 2 or this morning.

 

There was also a time from October 1 to October 6 when there were no issues. The issue began again on October 7 to October 12.

 

Summary:

 

Issues:  October 7-12 and October 24-November 1 (really bad for that entire week).

 

No issues:  October 1-6 and October 13-23 and November 2.

 

Issue Started: September 9. See post 4 of this thread.

 

Perhaps based on the above dates you can see what was "different" for the periods when we did, and did not, have the issue with "Authentication Failed".

 

 

Edit - I wrote this post at 10:30AM, November 3. Unfortunately, at 11:30AM, I got the Authentication Failed message again.

 

.



I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,104

Re: Signing in to the forum

@RogersRoland

 

I will start my response today by speaking directly to the request.

 

General comment on browser type, time of day, steps taken, etc

 

There has been description of all browsers, some times of day (certainly not every time it happens - sorry, I don't have that much time in my life as it is happening every day. 

 

Greatest risk of this continuing - people will quit - and the ones reporting it now are very active members, senior advisors and residential experts.

 

I deliberately quit going near it on Saturday for my sanity. I walked away since Saturday because I was ready to lose it and as you saw, my texts were becoming frequent and long, which is a sign that I am getting fed up.

 

 

So I begin with an attempt to provide some direction out of this foggy retired programmers head who is as blind on the deep details of the programming flow of the site log-in as the engineers will be with such limited data to try to replicate.

 

So with a breath of fresh air, a clearer head I continue.

This will be a bit long - it is intended to clarify how for us to best support your engineers, so I will be going somewhat technical in the debugging process.

 

In your post, Roland, you wrote the following:

 

Our team is still investigating the root cause of the sign in issue, or what I like to refer to as the red screen of doom.

 

(cute name - ugly purple in my view - I am trying to stay concise while humorous.)

 

Unfortunately, due to the random nature of the issue, the support teams have been unable to successfully reproduce the issue at a whim.

 

(technical terminology in software industry, unable to replicate the issue based upon provided information)

 

I would have a question - have the engineers been able to reproduce the error at all - if they can't, there is a first level debugging question.

 

Engineer 1 Why not on our computers? - step 1 - do it at home on your own computer, your friend's computer. Get on every computer and device you can get your hands on. 

 

The challenge with replication on this, is that we can't replicate it, so I wouldn't expect that they could either.  If they never see it, they are kind of stuck - they have to see the code flow and logs of their own login failure before they can debug.

 

Take all current data provided - there is already reference to every type of browser on the market provided by this small representation on the forums.

 

Do we have data from people who have called in, or reported a concern through other channels?

 

If someone called in having it, did a tech stay on the phone and ask the user to go through the typical steps of using the forum log-in

 

Phone debugging of our actions and outcomes

1. For a person calling in who is having the errors - ask the following information.

a. First, please locate cookie name (you may have to guide them where to find it), copy it and email it to me along with any other log in relevant cookies.

b. delete those cookies only please.

c. Close your browser and try to log into the forum.

d. Describe the exact steps of how you go to the browsers - there are a few ways 

 - using a url for the site either bookmarked or obtained from google search

 - going to myrogers, not logged in and going to bottom of page and choosing forum link, then log in - expected outcome is it goes directly to forum logged in.

 - going to myrogers, logged in to my rogers, then going to link at bottom of page - expected outcome would be that it opens to forum logged in

- last route would be from a link in the FAQ's or other pages on Rogers site, or from an external site where an organization shared the link - in most of these cases, it will take you to the post referenced to, but you will not be logged in. For view only.

 

There may be other ways that people log in, each person will have their own unique methods, in my case now, I have no predictable process, because none of them have predictable outcomes, so my actions are now superstitious (like the waggle of a golfer) - you tend to repeat what works, and when it doesn't, you start trying everything, and when no consistency, you get frustrated and ultimately quit - this last outcome we do not want.

 

The above is what as a programmer or engineer attempting to debug I would do in a request via chat (may be the best route for now as easy for us to cut and paste material, but would still need to be able to send copies of log and cache and temp files). 

 

Logging or remote access to our computer to test

 

Note***  before any tester does remote access of testing, or having us take actions under their direction, we should be asked to make a complete backup at minimum of our data and preferably an image so that we can recover in case of catastrophic failure.

 

The best approach would be for a dedicated tester to this task to contact each of us that have posted - see if we would agree to put a logging app to track every code run and outcome (creating a log file they can debug), and preferably logged into our computer and watching us do it, and they can repeat it.)

 

The basic information currently requested will be (in my experience), pretty much useless on this issue because it is too irregular in its production (i.e., we haven't found the calm in the chaos yet).

 

Autogenerated error log and copy of all critical cookies and files

 

Create a small application to do following:

 

On accessing forum login screen - log all code accessed and run and outcomes, all temp files created.

If purple screen - take snapshot of current state of computer and state of MyRogers login- obtain status from server as well.

 

Note that these logs unless explicit permission is given should have password masked out.

 

Basically, a tracking and error log is being created.

 

This error log is then sent and then engineers and debuggers have a record of every incident, time, computer, software, all other software running, etc.  This is what is happening with errors on Windows if we have agreed to allow computer to send information to improve software -

 

Log tracking creation and debugging is a specific skill, so you will need a person well skilled in this area.

 

At this point, I don't know how your company can ever do an efficient replication attempt without cookies, computer state, etc.

 

This current process can only identify a system wide issue, an account issue (say corruption in our files on your end), or a suspected browser issue (that unless you can replicate it on all, it will be computer related, and you can't test that without access to the current state programmitically of our memory, cpu, and code status and the code processed prior to the error.

 

In summary - 

 

This is a complex process to debug, and you will see in the detail I just gave - that without much more explicit information on user actions, step by step, and code processing, the following is not likely to be very helpful.

 

 

If possible, can you provide me with a few examples of:

 

  • Time the issue occurs / every attempt
  • Browser/OS used

 

I can provide this and will in next post as I just got it again.

I would suggest that it will be of little use to the programmers because, there is nothing unique to anyone in this information - we all use the same browsers across a group of people and OS,  the time/attempts, unless there is log information on the server still cannot tell you what is happening on our end.

 

A suggestion for additional information, but note it will be time consuming for the user as it is "testing".

 

Take a time where you can work on this and only this activity.

 

1. Open your forum as you would normally do.

2. Document every step taken

Include the following

 

Computer, OS full version (I won't explain here where to find)

From task manager - all processes running.

Time of day and date.

 

3. Describe detail on every step you take - see my post, I have done the detailing

 

4. Continue to document every step and outcome

 

(this provides a tester with a logical flow of what we and our computer are doing and they may be able to spot the problem right up front).

 

 

 

 

Hopefully with more precise data, the support teams can fully resolve this issue.

 

I hope this too - but it is not my believe that the minimal information just asked for that it is going to help much. If what they have so far hasn't helped, it is unlikely that even if I post every one it will tell yo more as I can post everyone, but the information, other than time of day is always going to be the same.

 

Thanks!

 

Sorry for the length - I know I am wordy, but this discussion is one that has been a monologue not a diaglogue and face to face, we would made it more concise.

 

I am happy to take a call from a programmer and work with them. I am retired.

 

Bruce

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 78

Re: Signing in to the forum


RogersRoland wrote:
due to the random nature of the issue, the support teams have been unable to successfully reproduce the issue at a whim.

Sorry, I personally can't buy this explanation even for 1 sec. Plenty of Rogers community experts reported in this thread ongoing portal login failures. The reason they are more active here is obvious: they login to Rogers portal a lot more often than an average member - several times a day compare to once a month or less. So they experience this issue a lot more often. Rogers portal development team can run a small code to automatically login to this portal through a remote server every 2-5 min continuously. Within 2 days they will have exhaustive info on the root cause, and numerous failures registered. Instead of doing that, you say they can't reproduce the event that regularly happens to ordinary Rogers portal users. What it does - discourages your expert volunteer community to help Rogers succeed by providing free invaluable support to subscribers. I think we are not looking for explanations at this point anymore, we simply wait for the bug to be fixed till  Nov 15, 2017. If not, the earlier filed complaint with Management Team will be escalated to the Office of the President, and 10 days later to Rogers Ombudsman if still unresolved.

 

Its in Rogers corporate interests to allow subscribers to login to Rogers portal and check their account balances and usage, seek help on the forums, look at current promotions. Obstructing this user activity by regular login failures leads to user dissatisfaction and inability to control their account or obtain help. This in turn violates subscriber Contract with Rogers and the law. I hope this portal administration understands it. Pls also provide the links on this portal: a) contact portal administrator, b) report the portal bug. The bug reporting system should allow to see who was assigned to fix the bug, set by admin deadlines to fix each bug, and access to monitor progress and add bug related messages into Bug Tracking System at least to Community Experts, so they can inform other forum members. Smiley Sad Look at Bugzilla as an example.

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,104

Re: Signing in to the forum

My Recent set of failures.

 

Background

 

I have two MyRogers accounts - one is my main account with a gmail account, the other is attached to no accounts and allows me to get to continue as @BS .

 

I never log into both at same time.

 

10:15 Nov 3, 2017

 

OS Windows Pro 10

Version 1709 (fall creator)

OS build (I can't provide this detail as I am an insider tester and they won't have it, nor can I share it - I can say it is post 1709 - public release version)

 

Note - the error on the forum login will not be a result of my unique situation, I access through other devices, they have the same issue.

 

Also note, my computer is a clean install only 4 weeks ago, with minimal application builds at this time.

 

Using Chrome 

10:50 Nov 3, 2017
Chrome Version 61.0.3163.100 (Official Build) (64-bit)

(note this is an update just came down today - I use auto update on my browsers).

 

Cleared all Rogers Forum cookies before beginning.

 

Step 1. Computer has been running steady for a day as it is downloading a database from Family Tree Maker - this is a slow download, about 1 kb - 10 kb file every 3 seconds, so little demand on Internet.

 

No other devices being used at this time.

 

Other software open - process manager, Family Tree Maker, Word Pad, Norton Security, most recent build, 2017 version in background.

 

Intel core vPro i& inside with 8 Gb ram.

 

2. Open Chrome

3. go to communityforums.rogers.com by typing in URL

4. Click signin at top right corner

5. Log in screen shows

6. Enter my login and credentials.

7. Opens fine.

 

8. Close from logout in top right account field.

 

9. Close chrome.

 

10. Repeat 3-6

11. Outcome purple screen

12. Backspace

13 Purple screen

14 try all steps in the screen

15. purple screen on all.

 

16. This is something I found recently

17. Go to MyRogers at top of middle of screen

18. Page goes to the MyRogers.com

19. although logged out of forum at this time, notice that MyRogers at top shows me signed in to my email account with logout present.

20. Logout of my Rogers

21. Return to original forum login as in 3 above.

22. Successful.

 

I will now repeat same steps.

 

1. Log out from forum with logout in top right corner.

2.sign into the forum with logout in the top right corner.

3. It worked - I am not sure if I logged out of myrogers at the top (will replicate that again after this session)

4. log out using the forum logout.

5. log back in

6. purple death

7. Go to my rogers link at top middle of choices

8. Se that I am still logged into myrogers - although I am logged out of forum

9. I log out of rogers.

10. I log into forum - successful.

Will repeat 5 times again and report.

 

Bruce

Retired Moderator RogersRoland
Retired Moderator
Posts: 686

Re: Signing in to the forum

Hey Community,

 

Thank you for the information provided on the timings and dates. The programmer team had requested these specific instances. The Community Forums team have also provided our instances as well, as this issue is also affecting us. 

 

I appreciate all the support and recommendations on potential fixes, but do understand that every company have different ways of troubleshooting. Currently, our team are in the middle of communicating with both our internal programmers as well as Lithium's in hopes to resolve this. We are providing all the necessary information requested by them. We will continue to update the Community on any findings and updates. 

 

We thank you for the continued patience as we work to fully resolve this issue.  For those users looking for immediate assistance, you can also reach out to us via Social Media on Facebook or Twitter.

 

 

RogersRoland

 

 

 

If anyone else in the Community is experiencing the login issue,  please note the exact "date+time" of the instance and notify me. I will relay the information to the programmer team. 

 

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,104

Re: Signing in to the forum

I lost my post: so here is summary.

 

For me to get out of the purple screen, I go to top of screen, look into MyRogers see that it says <email> logged in/sign out

 

I have to sign out, then exit chrome, then I now typicaly get 2-3 times success then screen is back, repeat above again.

 

Not always successful on first, but ultimately I do.

 

I have also had username/password not correct (hasn't attempted to lock me out), 6 times in this process.

 

So that is what I can tell them.

 

I like the suggestion on a debug script running for hours under various conditions to try and replicate and I am happy to discuss this directly with a programmer - my experience and he/she can listen as I replicate the above and ask questions.

 

This is not going be solved by the small group providing OS browser, time and date.

 

The first two are always the same each time we report, and the only thing time and date may help is they can check server logs.

 

A step by step debugging of live failures is needed to get into this - there is no other way, sorry, there is no shortcuts on deep testing.  And the information asked for so far given how much they have been given is not deep testing in my experience - just my point of view and it looks like we have the input of a few other very solid programmer testers here.

 

I am done providing any testing - I need a life - I left for 5 days because I was done with it and only came back out of curiousity.  I just want to help them fix it so that we can do what we enjoy.

 

Bruce

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 78

Re: Signing in to the forum


BS wrote:
"I like the suggestion on a debug script running for hours under various conditions to try and replicate.This is not going be solved by the small group providing OS browser, time and date."

 

That's why I said this Lithium partner company is not that eager to fix the issue. Rogers as a large good paying customer should work with their Management to address this rather than with programmers who may have plenty of conflicting priorities at hand. They're obviously fooling around.

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