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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Signing in to the forum

Yes, I would agree, if I were in charge with prioritizing work of my internal teams and contact with external teams and back to the forum and to us.

 

In this case, as mentioned before there are login issues with WebMail, issues with email in many areas, and that involves a web team and Yahoo and communication with the forum and all other source of input from users across all the channels - 3 social media, chat, concern to management, phone ins, and first level contacts to a CSR, non technical who may have responded on what they know.

 

There is also the occasional issues related to MyRogers logins, the redirect to the same page over and over again, the maintenance page at spontaneous times, Anyplace TV and its related teams, which pretty much covers all services - cellular wireless, devices, apps, different versions of apps, OS, browser staff on multiple device platforms, and the TV teams and guide teams, etc.

 

So if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't prioritize too high on this one, it seems to be a small group, but it is a group that provides a lot of free support to your customers, and everything we write is public too.

 

I am going to be taking a different approach to tech issues now that it finally clicks in my head how communication happens at Rogers on tech issues - billing and customer service issues are their own beast - I am not speaking of them here.

 

When someone says they have an issue - if I am aware of a posted solution I will try to find it and link them to it and say give it a try, and if unsuccessful, my suggestion is going to be, report back the lack of success, and then go to community helps and get a ticket opened, or they may have knowledge of it and the current status.  If I was the moderator, I would then post that the issue is known, and request any futher information the programmer teams want from us as done.

 

As a user, I would ask for an estimation of completion then forget about it until I here something (yes I know we have all had the - your ticket issue is reolved and closed email or voicemail when it is not fixed - but that one, I would just escalate it at my leisure).

 

I would also suggest dates which I would follow-up by and for a line of communication to get right to my issue and ticket.

 

This way, our more complex issues ultimately end up with a team member and us to work with, or at least keep us up to date.  I am realizing there is little benefit of us spending all our tiime, documenting, reporting, debugging and getting no where and then for the third time being asked for the information we have already given, which is what I expect the teams directed to be told to us.

 

This will just take us all in circles and create frustration.  Even if someone from on high said, this is not a priority at this time, and we won't get to it until (....), I could accept that, and either I would live with it, or just move on.

 

I used to get paid to do this stuff, now it is just fun and a hobby, but if I was paid for it, or paying my staff, I would have pulled the plug or dedicated more resources about 8 pages back, because the current process can't take us anywhere.

 

After I have had another break away, I will open a ticket and try to get a prioritization on this issue.

 

I can now generally get in about 70% of the time, but when the problem comes, my solution works about 40% of time, so that 30% of time I don't get in, I am tossing the dice on how much time it takes to get in, and I am not a gambler, I will just pack it in again.

 

I will be back after weekend and see how it is going and Monday open a ticket if still unresolved.  A date was set of Nov 15 by @arnym21 So he has set his time frame, but I have wasted enough of my "retired life on this one already".

 

Next?

 

Bruce

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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 3,441

Re: Signing in to the forum


@BS wrote:

 

In your post, Roland, you wrote the following:

 

Our team is still investigating the root cause of the sign in issue, or what I like to refer to as the red screen of doom.

 

(cute name - ugly purple in my view - I am trying to stay concise while humorous.)

 



This is the screen I've been getting. Looks dark grey to me with a hint of red in there, but I'm a little colour blind.

 

Authentification failed.jpg


SA8300HD, SA8300SD, DTA50, LG-E410B PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario
Retired Moderator RogersRoland
Retired Moderator
Posts: 686

Re: Signing in to the forum

Hey @OLDYELLR,

 

Do you recall the exact timing when you got that message? The support teams have been requesting this information in hopes to aid the fix. 

 

 

 

RogersRoland

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Signing in to the forum

@RogersRoland

 

I got in - stubborn and bored at moment.

 

Here are details:

 

OS Windows 10 Pro

Version 1709 (fall creators final version for release to public- clean install 2 weeks ago)

Version 16299.19 (I am actually on the final ring 16299.15 (r3) of the pre release as I am an insider, just still have to run update to final release. but that should not be relevant as there were no significant changes on the final).

 

Browser is Chrome for all these tests

Version 62.0.3202.75 (Official Build) (64-bit)  Just updated this morning.

 

Date and time and result - the times are as close as I can figure as it is at bottom of windows task bar screen, and it may have changed from one minute to another while I looked down, or started to log in again.

 

If they are looking at server logs, you can see the approximate start time, each event, and the end time is my last log in, and I am still in.  Will log out now.  Do a few more.

 

If they are able to see my user in the log, they can pull my user and times from after 7:35.

 

Just logged out now.

 

Bruce

 

Date - all nov 3 2017

 

Time               outcome

 

6:53 pm Ontario time   email address for @BS  (I have left my email out for privacy) - feel free to populate if beneficial for the team.

6:53                login ok

6:53                log out

6:54                log in - fail purple screen

6:55                2 times, just looping back to front page of forum, not logged in

 

Noticed while it looped that I was seeing myRogers, the login status for my email was shoing login and option to sign out.

Clicked myRogers - first time, just returns to front guest page.

Clicked my Rogers again, shows, and I sign out.

 

6:57               Now able to log in

6:57                Sign out

6:58                OK

6:58               Sign out

7:00               ok

7:00               sign out

7:00               Ok

7:00               OK

7:01               sign out

7:01               OK

7:02               after log out - login ok

7:03               error screen

7:04               looping

7:05               do the log out of MyRogers

7:05               OK

 

 

Now I have been in since, providing this data.

 

I hope this is useful.

 

I cannot tell you with any consistency why it errors out - as you can see, sometimes I can go a few with no errors, then I get one.

 

Once I get an error, only way out is that I go to sign out from my email user account via myRogers which I have never logged directly into (I.e. I have been logging in via forum sign in which takes you to the MyRogers login page, which when that works, redirects automatically to the forum, having never touched the full MyRogers personal account page.

 

Also consistent - the first time I try to go to MyRogers when at the error page,

I end up looping back to the error page, then I try the MyRogers button again, I can see my username and option to sign out, I just click signout,  then next time is successful.

 

Hope this provides direction

 

Bruce

 

 

 

 

Retired Moderator RogersRoland
Retired Moderator
Posts: 686

Re: Signing in to the forum

Hey @BS,

 

Thank you for the information. I've relayed it over to the support teams. I thank you again for your diligence in helping the Community solve this issue Smiley Happy

 

 

RogersRoland

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Signing in to the forum

One last test:

 

Starting at 7:36 - 7:42 10 successful logins

 

Steps to log in on this session of tests (10 total) 

 

Open Chrome - click my bookmark for forum

Click sign in at top right corner.

Log in screen shows, I put in username and password - successful.

Log in no problem,

 

Log out and repeat - but this time I use either my link on a new tab as bookmarks are removed on rogers pages for myrogers and forums.

Or I go to the bottom of the home page and click forums.

 

At 7:42 I decided to try something different

 

Logged into myrogers first from top of home page (can be rogers.com, or the forums page result was the same.

 

MyRogers is logged in successfully (note as I may have mentioned before, my @BS for the forum is associated with an old user account (my old rogers email, which I use only for this site because I didn't want to lose my history of all my posts as @BS  - that one is a long story, but may be important, but I suspect out of this group posting, that most of the others are not with an unattached MyRogers account (i.e., attached to forum only, but not to my services, so I just get a message to attach an account number, or cancel, so I cancel, and I see only a portion of MyRogers details and no details on me)

 

But like I mentioned, this is not likely the case with others.  If it is, others can pitch in.

 

So back to test, I logged into myRogers first using my username/password for forum.

 

Then I used the link at bottom of page for forum

Sign in failed with the red page of doom

 

Tried to log in again - failed - it is 7:43

 

I can't see in my notes whether I signed out of MyRogers this time - I didn't write it down - may have.

 

7:44 successful

7:46 My rogers login, then login to forum  successful 5 times

through to 7:50

 

7:50, I make sure I am logged out of MyRogers, it sign in so I am not logged in.

 

7:51, I log into MyRogers, successful, then I go to forum and it fails 

 

Try 3 times more (not checking login to MyRogers.  Fail each time with red screen

 

7:52  Log out of MyRogers as it shows login with my email and signout option.

 

Logged out

 

I go to forum from bookmark and successfully login to forum at 7:52.

 

 

This is just a guess - but I think that in the login process there has always been two ways

 

1. you could go directly to the forum site, and when you click sign in, you are sent to a login screen that looks just like the login form for MyRogers.

But in this case, I have not formally logged into MyRogers.

 

2. In second case, you go to MyRogers login, and then at some point, deciding to go to forum, you click the link at the bottom of page, unlikely the bookmark, as they are not visible to me in my setup, and it should open directly to the forum as you login information is passed to the forum.

 

I am wondering if at this point as I can't see code and processes operating, I can only make a guess, but I think that somehow when logging into the forums it is picking up a past login information (just like the message suggests) from a MyRogers, which in a past session allowed you to go right to forums with no login.  (I am going by memory that it works that way).

 

Then when you go to log into the forum, thinking you have no connection to MyRogers, there is no credentials to pass to the log in, so it requests log in, but then somehow, I think it is looking for those past MyRogers credentials either from a past session, or being pulled from cookies (I can't answer that one).

 

So when I try to log in with my credentials, in a sense this is a brand new credential login, but the remnants of the last login coming from MyRogers somewhere are causing the two to conflict with each other, and subsequently the message - if this is the case, the error message would make sense.

 

My only way out, whether I logged into myRogers or not is to go from the red page or the looping page and go up to the MyRogers in the header, see that it shows me logged into MyRogers with a signout option (although I had not been in MyRogers) and signout, then I get into the forums fine the next time.

 

So questions to others - if you get stuck into that loop, click on the MyRogers bold button at the top of the page and see if you are showing logged into MyRogers with your username and a signout beside it.

 

sign out and see what happens.

 

That is as far as I can go - I still can't predict when it will happen or not happen, but I know how to get out (for my case anyway until someone else checks theirs).  And one reasonably predictable way of producing the error (but not 100% of time is to log into MyRogers first, then go to the forum from the link at bottom of the page.

 

That is the end of any testing I can do - will send my bill later Smiley Happy

 

Only half joking.  If I were on the phone I would ask for a credit.

Here, if it helps, it keeps me coming back.  But if we don't solve soon, I went 5 days before I came back this week.  My sanity can only last so long before I call it quits.  If I cannot predictably get in, my behaviour extinguishes (stops - I was a behaviour analyst in my careers) quickly, and once I leave for a few weeks, if it is still not working, I generally call it a day.

 

Hope this helps - I got nothing else to offer - but do ask more questions if needed.  If I have time, I may try to test as I just did.

 

Bruce

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Signing in to the forum

@RogersRoland

 

Hope it helps - at this point, I wouldn't call it diligence Smiley Indifferent

 

More like plain stubborn Smiley Frustrated or frustrated, along with my wife is out and I am bored.

 

But as I said, I do hope that info plus the next one I sent helps - I at least now know how to avoid it most of the time, and how to get out of it, most of the time, so a lower level of frustration I hope.

 

I am still going to disappear for a few days - I have two other beta tests to get back to - I have to update my insider version of Win 10 to the current release so I can start working with their beta's. And one other major software that I can't mention. Pre release testing that I was involved in went for 3.5 months after original release date, then after the release I am running both the release that the world is using, and enhancements to next release I have been doing for 4 months now, new beta every 7 days.  Payment, nothing just like to help.

 

I mention this so that everyone who sees me post when I question the level of beta testing that Rogers does on somethings - I only work with very high level groups for testing.  Consider that Windows alpha tests in house for 3 months, then does prerelease testing to insiders for another 3 months, then release, then post release beta for bugs that come, and enhancements over the next 3 months. Major release cycle once per year in spring, then a mid release in fall (thus current Creator fall version).  Nothing confidential here - the insider program is well described and you just volunteer.

 

The other one they alpha tested for 18 months from an earlier version, then prerelease tested for 3 months, missed target release date and continued testing until ready for release - 3 months late, and enhancement and bug fixes are in beta constantly.

 

I am aware of the amount of time it takes to work with irregular bugs, but I get frustrated when as an educated user I find it hard to get educated information back and forth to the teams responsible in Rogers.

 

Of course, the user is always unaware of the alpha, prerelease and post release beta testing going on, but my experience with other companies is that I get more clear communication that they have understood my bug, or they have automatic bug reporting tools (the software I am currently working with has auto bug reporting tools, and users have a button in the help menu to send copies of an error log when a certain critical feature fails).

 

So I remain unconvinced about the level of testing and communication of Rogers web sites and other product lines.

 

Just my retired professional opinion.

 

I will acknowledge, your direct question to @OLDYELLR reminded me to keep very detailed notes including the time and to do many replications of my tests to look for patterns, as @arnym21 suggested could be done at the server level.

 

So you can see I upped my testing to as much as I could handle tonight (if my wife were home, she would have disconnected me from the computer long time ago).  And I included the full details of actions, steps, outcomes and times on each outcome and start of activities.

 

Even though it was directly asked for, I am out of practice doing paper bug tracking testing - so it wasn't until you asked specifically for the exact time of the activity that I became more systematic in that reporting of each attempt.

 

The problem to this point is that I was reporting after the fact and often didn't have the full details, where as this time, I went at it like a tester (same conditions and times until you find a pattern, then try another condition, repeat the condition that doesn't create it, repeat the condition that does create it, and also, the workaround of how to get out predictably, tested repeatedly under same and then different conditions.

 

For us to test effectively for your teams that you are reporting to, it is very beneficial if they provide us a set of steps to follow - this is bug testing process, they gather information, then ask us to do something else.

 

The more specific the request the more likely we can run repeatable testing (that is if we have the time).

 

Have a good weekend everyone, my brain is done.

 

Hope we are getting closer to the solutions.  I have promised my wife I am out of here until late in next week, so I will be doing that - I know my place on her requests after 39 years of being with her and raising 2 children to adulthood.

 

So again, diligent thanks for the compliment - just stubborn.

 

Oh and wordy, but you all know that.Smiley Wink about me.

 

Bruce

 

Bruce

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 78

Re: Signing in to the forum

@BS

 

You're an impressive writer. May be we should write to Lithium Management instead? In particular to the Chief Revenue Officer? Smiley Tongue

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 3,441

Re: Signing in to the forum

I don't keep track, but I got it right now (~1:00 pm Saturday). First I closed my browser (Firefox) and restarted it, but got the same screen. Then I deleted Rogers cookies and was able to sign into the Forum.


SA8300HD, SA8300SD, DTA50, LG-E410B PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 2,732

Re: Signing in to the forum


@OLDYELLR wrote:

I don't keep track, but I got it right now (~1:00 pm Saturday). First I closed my browser (Firefox) and restarted it, but got the same screen. Then I deleted Rogers cookies and was able to sign into the Forum.


The next time, just try leaving the browser closed for a minute or two - go do something else for a while, rather than clearing the cookies. I believe that the cookie clearing takes enough time that it's the same as if you just don't try logging in right away.  That has worked for me almost every time I get the "Authentication Failed" message.