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phone only rings once

mike017
I'm a Regular

Not sure whats wrong (this time)  but when there is a incoming call the phone only rings once then eventually just disconnets. If I answer the call it works fine and outgoing calls work but incomming calls only ring one time and never go to voicemail.

I've reset the modem and tried unpluging phones etc. no luck not sure what else to try, been on hold with rogers for 20 mins already, like always great customer support with their many many problems Smiley Frustrated

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Accepted Solutions

Re: phone only rings once

Pauly
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
im no expert on this but it sounds like if the phone works and rings proper when connected to the modem and it only ring once when connected to the inside wireing, the problem may very well be an inside wiring has gone bad, rogers can come out and test this yes, but I don't believe they have a responsibility to fix it, you are likely going to be on the hook for it, I also already gonna know ur reaction your gonna be very upset and threaten them to fix it or threaten to cancel and go back to bell, but bell also doesn't fix inside wiring issues either, all phone companies responsibility ends at the point of demarcation which in rogers case is the modem, and for bell its the block near your hydro panel.


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Re: phone only rings once

mike017
I'm a Regular

so apparently if I plug the phone directly into the modem it will work but that's not practical, if I can't use the other jacks in the house I may as well go back to Bell at least with them my phone actually works

Re: phone only rings once

It WAS canada day.. they may have been more lightly staffed.

(those people working that day, would have been having to WORK on their holiday)

As for your issue.

It works when right into the modem with a phone..

 

Now.. is there ANY other phones pluged into any other jacks anywher else in the house?  It sounds like something is interupting it, etc.

(as say a bad line to one of the rooms, etc.. shouldnt cause just one ring.. would more likely be a broken ring, bad audio, etc)

Re: phone only rings once

No there is nothing plugged in anywhere in the house but as soon as I plug the modem into the house line to go out to the jacks the issue starts even with no phones or anything plugged in anywhere.

Finally got someone from rogers to schedula a tech but that won't be until next week, if they have so many issues it takes a week just to get a tech out that's not a good sign, and I got the feeling they were trying to blame it on 3rd party equipment (I guess since the lines in the house were originally Bell) and want to charge extra to fix it lol not likely I'll cancel the phone or go back to bell before paying extra just to have it work like it should in the first place

Re: phone only rings once

Pauly
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
im no expert on this but it sounds like if the phone works and rings proper when connected to the modem and it only ring once when connected to the inside wireing, the problem may very well be an inside wiring has gone bad, rogers can come out and test this yes, but I don't believe they have a responsibility to fix it, you are likely going to be on the hook for it, I also already gonna know ur reaction your gonna be very upset and threaten them to fix it or threaten to cancel and go back to bell, but bell also doesn't fix inside wiring issues either, all phone companies responsibility ends at the point of demarcation which in rogers case is the modem, and for bell its the block near your hydro panel.


Re: phone only rings once

stancurzon
I've Been Here Awhile
There is a short on the phone lines somewhere in the house. Check all jacks for corrosion in the pins. Your rogers tech should be able to do anything further.

Re: phone only rings once

User14
I'm a Trusted Contributor

It's July 2017, but I thought I would add this for information.  We had a nearby lightning strike which brought out Hydro and we thought nothing of it.  All things Rogers (TV Internet, Phones) seemed ok.  One SUNDAY night my wife saw the clock light flash and the telephone message flash but then it went back to normal. Again we thought it was just a glitch, but Hydro can connect and disconnect lines which you do not know about and it can send a voltage spike down the line that can cause weird things to happen with electronics. 

 

In our case, around TUESDAY we noticed that we only got one ring. On WEDNESDAY I did the modem reset and tried the usual phone disconnects/reconnects to see if I could clear the problem.  Failing that I called Rogers 1-855-381-7836.   We did the connect directly to the modem trick and the phone worked.  Connecting it to the line we got the one ring again.    Technician was scheduled for SATURDAY 2-4pm (3 days away). Problem persisted on THURSDAY with only a couple of calls missed.   On FRIDAY morning, the phone started ringing normally again.   ???  I didn't do anything!   I called Rogers and the line was tested and I was told everything was fine at their end.  I didn't cancel the Technician. (It's FRIDAY)  I want to  see if it works today and I'll cancel the service call tomorrow morning if all is well.   

 

My speculation is that a capacitor somewhere on one of my phones (probably the one that flashed SUNDAY night) kept a charge that blocked the signal to keep ringing the phones.  It took a few days to discharge.

 

So there's my story for "only one ring".  Hope it may help someone.  BTW, I didn't check each phone directly from the modem to see if it rang. If I checked each phone, I might have found the phone that was causing the problem. The other option would be to disconnect all phones and then plug them in one at a time. If it is not the phone then it might be a short in the lines or a wire that has separated in one of the jacks.  

 

 

Re: phone only rings once

User14
I'm a Trusted Contributor

Follow-up 8 July 2017 (SATURDAY) Technician arrived as advertised. Between 2 and 4. Actual arrival 3:02pm!  Rogers Enroute was pretty good, but I digress. Several text messages announcing Estimated Time of Arrival.

 

Explained the story - Lighting strike, blah, blah, blah,  Called Roger and checked modem, blah, blah, blah, Checked phones, blah, blah, blah. Starting working again, blah, blah, blah. Intermittent problems, blah, blah.

 

To make a long story short. "It's your phone modem."  It was changed.  He left about 3:40pm. 

 

Lesson learned. If something just doesn't seem to be working correctly... get a technician and give them a list of your issues. Don't suffer in silence. Smiley Happy 

Re: phone only rings once

DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around

I may not be a resident expert ... may I comment?

What he describes is "tripping the line".  Original poster.  Please do the following.  Connect all of your telephones to the modem directly and do not involve your home wiring.  How many telephones do you have?  You'll need a small splitter that costs $2-3 at Home Depot.  Add the other phones in one by one and test each time, and let us know what happens, OK?

Rogers ... come on folks ... can't you talk the modem remotely?

Re: phone only rings once

DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around

I see you solved the problem.  The modem was obviously tripping - a false answer impression.

"When a telephone call comes in for example on the first telephone line, the Central Office ringing supply ionizes the line lamp causing it to flash on and off in accordance with the ringing frequency. Resistor "X" ensures that the series impedance of resistor "Y" is of sufficient value to allow multiple telephones and also to prevent inadvertent tripping of the distant Central Office line relay."

In your case, the CO line relay is in your ATA.

 

Re: phone only rings once

User14
I'm a Trusted Contributor

@DominicB wrote:

I see you solved the problem.  The modem was obviously tripping - a false answer impression.

"When a telephone call comes in for example on the first telephone line, the Central Office ringing supply ionizes the line lamp causing it to flash on and off in accordance with the ringing frequency. Resistor "X" ensures that the series impedance of resistor "Y" is of sufficient value to allow multiple telephones and also to prevent inadvertent tripping of the distant Central Office line relay."

In your case, the CO line relay is in your ATA.

 


@DominicB  I hope the problem is solved. He said he has seen the problem before and it related to having an answering machine on one of my phone lines that the modem thinks has answered the call. It stops at the first ring. I don't know what impedence in what line trips the modem into stopping the ringing. Anyway...  I did test my 4 phones DIRECTLY with the phone modem (TEL 1 slot in the back) and they all worked (constant ringing until I picked it up)  including the one with the answering machine.  But when I connected the TEL 1 slot of the phone modem to the main jack again, to 1 phone or all 4 phones it only rang once again.  You seem to know a lot about the internal wiring of the modem.  It seemed to have a glitch which created an intermittent problem (the worst kind).  So far, so good with the new modem.  Cheers and thanks for your reply.  

Re: phone only rings once

DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around

An electrical surge most likely damaged the modem's electronics.  I would think Rogers' equipment has built-in surge protection?  No?  The modem would take the brunt of any nearby atmospheric discharge that found its way into the modem through the coax leading into your residence.

Remember that these modems "fake a phone line", and they really suck at doing so.  They're lousy at lip syncing, even when you haven't heard the studio album.  Why?  Because the modem is in your house and not a few thousand feet away in a central office.  So, there is a compensatory factor in there to fake it.  In the early 1980s, the phone system went digital (DMS -- Digital Multiplex System) -- that was our baby.  It did a really good job at faking the old analog telephone network which consisted of spinning gears and mouse traps.

Your Rogers modem is like a line card in a digital central office, but the key difference is that few thousand feet of wiring isn't there.  The central office mas moved into your house -- part of it anyway.  A phone line can only go so far before it poops out.  The modem or line card only puts out enough juice to ring so many phones.  Older phones draw more current, newer ones not so much.  When everything was made by one company and the wiring was all done by one company (ie., us and what's that phone company's name again?) ... we took all of that into account.  Now, it's do it yourself.  Suddenly you are expected to know all this, and that's not right.  Call the CRTC ... they couldn't even write a dialing plan for a Fisher Price toy phone on wheels, yet they allowed all the junk equipment in and essentially your inside wiring became YOUR responsibility.

It's almost like going into a hospital and finding out you're scheduled for do-it-yourself surgery.  Scalpel ... that's dangerous.  Give me a monkey wrench instead.

It's not Rogers' fault, and I can't and don't blame them.  It's the equipment manufacturer's fault.  Rogers can only buy what's out there, and it's all junk.  Because Rogers' core expertise was cable television, I can't expect them to know.  Heck, Bell Canada doesn't even know anymore.  Retrograde amnesia or somethin'.

What make and model modem is it?  I talked to Cisco and Arris, and I felt like slapping them both upside the haid because I asked them about COD (Cutoff on Disconnect), and they had NO CLUE WHAT I was talking about.  Then I said, oh, well, some people call it CPC, OSI Disconnect Supervision ... you know, WINK.  Tell me a story mommy.  GOOD-A-BYE-A.

 

Why?  Because they couldn't be bothered to read the book or a schematic on a Fisher Price toy phone.  If you're gonna present me with an analog signal, do it right fellas, or hit the road.  An answering machine will look for a COD, which is not cash on delivery, but a wink.  Without that, it ain't hangin' up sugar pie.  This is why these problems happen.

Disconnect all telephones with built-in answering machines.  Disconnect FAX machines.  Disconnect any device with auto answer capability.

 

Does each telephone jack in your home run down to the basement on its own wire, or, are they strung together like Christmas lights (where you can only get to jack 3 by going to jack 1 and from there, to jack 2).

Any Nortel Nutworks telephone and some other manufacturer's phones will tell you the nature of the problem immediately.  Our phones from the 1990s were equipped with a red light and the display would read "Extension in Use" when ANOTHER phone went off hook.  If you have such a phone ... after the first ring, if the red light on a phone connected to your home wiring comes on and the display reads "Extension in Use" ... then a trip has occurred if no device with auto-answer capability is connected to the line.  Result? ... the modem is to blame.

This can happen if too many devices are on the line together.  Even if you test them one by one on the modem direct, it's the effect of all of them on the line together that causes the trip.  Devices will have a REN number, or an LN (load number).  1 REN = 20 LN.  The total for all devices should be 4 REN or 80 LN.  They actually say 5 REN or 100 LN, but that's cutting it too close.  These moe dums are even less from my experience.  The LENGTH of the inside wiring in your house matters too.

If I tried to connect a Meridian phone, it would say, wiring must not EXCEED x FEET from PBX Option Lucky 11.  They leave out all the important stuff that can cause issues on this mediocre stuff in circulation now.  Geez, can you imagine what would happen if I connect our Nortel combo phone and hair dryer to the line?

If it happens again ...

Call your number from a cell phone.  What call progress tones do you hear after the first ring on the cell?

When ringing stops after the first ring, pick up an extension phone immediately and let us know what you hear.  It's really easy to figure out where the problem is.

 

 

Re: phone only rings once

User14
I'm a Trusted Contributor

@DominicB wrote:


What make and model modem is it?  

 

Does each telephone jack in your home run down to the basement on its own wire, or, are they strung together like Christmas lights (where you can only get to jack 3 by going to jack 1 and from there, to jack 2).

Any Nortel Nutworks telephone and some other manufacturer's phones will tell you the nature of the problem immediately.  Our phones from the 1990s were equipped with a red light and the display would read "Extension in Use" when ANOTHER phone went off hook.  If you have such a phone ... after the first ring, if the red light on a phone connected to your home wiring comes on and the display reads "Extension in Use" ... then a trip has occurred if no device with auto-answer capability is connected to the line.  Result? ... the modem is to blame.

This can happen if too many devices are on the line together.  Even if you test them one by one on the modem direct, it's the effect of all of them on the line together that causes the trip.  Devices will have a REN number, or an LN (load number).  1 REN = 20 LN.  The total for all devices should be 4 REN or 80 LN.  They actually say 5 REN or 100 LN, but that's cutting it too close.  These moe dums are even less from my experience.  The LENGTH of the inside wiring in your house matters too.

If it happens again ...

Call your number from a cell phone.  What call progress tones do you hear after the first ring on the cell?

When ringing stops after the first ring, pick up an extension phone immediately and let us know what you hear.  It's really easy to figure out where the problem is.

 

 


Wow.... that was informative.  And funny! Smiley Happy  

And guess what?   Today. 10 July 2017 around noon, we started getting the one-ring again!

So, another Tech is coming tomorrow between 4 and 6pm and thanks to you I will be able to ask about the REN load.

 

Modem is Webstar by Scientific Atlanta  Model DPX2213  EMTA

4 phones: 1 Nexxtech Wall phone. Basic basic  REN = 0.5

                   2 Bell phones (Northern Telecom) a. REN =20  b.  LN = 10

                   1 Uniden with Digital Answering System.  REN = ?

There are 4 lines going to one jack in the basement but I have 6 jacks in the house plus one jack for the security alarm. Some jack must be hooked up to another jack somewhere. 

 

I did test each phone one by one on the modem and they all worked including the one with the answering machine.  It seems this happens when all phones are on line together. 

After we got the one ring today, I called using my cell phone and if I picked up the Wall phone within 15 secs there would be a connection. If I hung up the wall phone, my cell continued indicated that the line was active for about 25 seconds before it ended.

After one ring, and 15 seconds, when you pick up the phone all you get is a dial tone. 

 

You will have to tell me what kind of "call progress tones" I am listening for.  The cell phone would sometimes indicate the line was busy when I called, when none of the phones were in use. 

 

 You have also made me a wiser consumer for the Technician when he comes tomorrow. Thanks.

 

 

Re: phone only rings once

DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around

@User14

Bad boy.  You forgot to mention the alarm system.  It has line seizure capability.  Disconnect it if you can for a day or so.  If you can't, ask for a 2nd line (temporary for 1 month) and connect the alarm to jack 2 in the modem.  Rogers can apply Selective Call Acceptance on that line for added security so that it will only ring on incoming calls from your alarm monitoring company, or it can be made to disallow all incoming calls and allow only outgoing calls.  Line seizure is not required in that scenario.  It depends on the alarm.  It's possible Rogers changed something in the modem firmware that is causing these problems.  Ask about that.

The Northern Telecom phones are 10 LN each ... that means they are 0.5 or half a REN each.  So, both equal 1 REN.

REN means Ringer Equivalence Number.  An old dial or touch-tone phone with a mechanical bell ringer is 1 REN.

Even with the other device, REN is 1.5 in total.  I don't think REN is your problem.  If you give me the make and model of the ans. mach. I can find the REN for you.  It should be in the manual if you still have it.

Your alarm system ... what's the REN on that?  Your alarm system can seize the line through an RJ31X.  That might be what's happening.  Maybe the lightning got it too, or it's acting up from age, or a firmware change on the modem is giving it indigestion like I said earlier.

So, some jacks are "home runs", but some fork/split.

I would say ...

disconnect the alarm system if you can and see if the problem disappears.  It could be seizing the line in error.  When a line is seized it will produce symptoms like those you describe.

Re: phone only rings once

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@User14  If your home is laid out in a similiar manner as ours look for a jack that has two inputs on it.

 

Ours is laid out this way - phone modem has one standard RJ11 (hope I remember correctly), phone cable plugged into one of the two jacks.  The second jack, we can use like any other jack in the house.

 

The jack that is dedicated to the modem is in connected to the phone jack, and that jack runs over to a jack in another room, and then each jack runs back to another jack and so forth.  We have a total of 4 jacks in the house. Now as to how to trouble shoot each of those jacks, I leave that to others - I learned the hard way that I couldn't reverse the cable from the modem to the double jack.

 

Good luck with your continued efforts and keeping us up to date.  Between this and your email, I would be hospitalized - I can't deal with that level of frustration anymore - my respect to you.

 

Bruce

Re: phone only rings once

DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around

@BS

Polarity sensitive?

Jack 2 on the modem is for Line 2 on the innermost pins -- a second line.
Some modems have Line 2 on the outermost pins on Jack 1 and the innermost pins on Jack 2.

This is for two line telephones where only one line cord is desired (to be nice and neat neat neat).

4-pins are RJ-14.  Some people call this RJ-11 (6P4C).

RJ-11 is 2 pins (6P2C)

RJ-25 is 6 pins (6P6C)

 

xPyC means x grooves (always SIX), but y "gold" connectors are in those grooves.  Does that make sense?  Even so, some phones have 4 pins and are 1 line.  The outer pins are wired to ... FAT AIR ... inside the phone.

 

Some devices are polarity sensitive.  Most telephone cords change the order on each end.  Some don't -- they're like Ethernet cables and not crossovers.  I have a polarity tester, and it's amusing how many times they get the wires backwards -- that's because most circuits nowadays have automatic polarity correction.

Isn't this all nice?  Wireline telephony is a lost art ... replaced with slop art.

A phone cord is usually BRGY on one end (to the jack) and YGRB on the other (to the phone) if 4 pin, or RG and GR if 2-pin, and if it's a whoppin' 3 line Momma, it's:

WBRGYU and UYGRBW

White Black Red Green Yellow blUe

Tip Tip Ring Tip Ring Ring on one end and Ring Ring Tip Ring Tip Tip on the other.

Re: phone only rings once

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@DominicB  Yes, you are right it is a lost art, and I appreciate the refresher - mine has always worked, except for the one time I got the double jack on the wall (not speaking of the ones on the modem) backwards - didn't think about polarity and straight through and cross over - oh that pushes my brain back into the past.

 

And yes, I remember when switches in Ethernet began to automatically identify crossover cables, versus straight through and adjust automatically, but then it led to some of our lower end techs to stop thinking about the difference, and once when we had to drop an older switch in while we waited for a replacement (3-com used to have lifetime replacement on enterprise switching - you called them, they couried out a replacement within a day), and they hadn't checked the cables - my senior tech walked in, looked at the cable, shook his head, walked to the patch cord boxes and pulled the required straight through cable, never said a word, shook his head and left - I just laughed, then pulled the two techs aside, and said, did you learn something there - they didn't catch on - I said, look at the label on the cable - note cross over versus straight through - do you remember why there is a difference - their answer, oh, we never think about it because the switch takes care of it - I said, true, but not the older switch that you just put in for the next day.  I made them check every patch cable between the servers and switches and they found 5 in error out of 20.

 

So, yes, automation dumbs it all down and then if something goes wrong like the automatic polarity, they don't know what to do.

 

Or like the days when we had to set duplex or not on network adapters, and some of the younger techs didn't even understand the concept.

 

My daughter is a very high end programmer/software engineer and she still refuses to use the simplified coding modules, she codes everything raw with lots of.

 

Interesting conversation, hope the original poster gets a tech who knows how to work with the trouble shooting to solve the problem.

 

We old you know what's - you are 47 if I recall, I am 60, we do actually know a lot.

 

Thanks as always, Bruce

Re: phone only rings once

DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around

@User14

I forgot to mention while acting silly ... your modem is plugged into your alarm system's inputs FIRST, and all your telephone jacks are connected to the alarm system's outputs.

Is that right?  Alarm systems typically isolate all other devices on the line and cut them off when needed, hang up any call in progress, and then get a fresh dial tone.  The modem has to respond correctly.

If you disconnect the alarm from the modem, does the siren go off as if a burglar cut your phone line?

Re: phone only rings once

DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around

@BS

That's funny.  I just close one eye and look at each end.  He didn't mention the alarm system.  He has to get that out of the way first.  Since it is closest to the modem, it could have taken the hit too.  I don't know what's going on, but I'm willing to bet the farm the alarm system and modem don't mix anymore.  Something changed.  Firmware possibly.  If the modem wasn't damaged by the lightning, then the alarm system wouldn't.  A pro would need to test each line for integrity and each device and know enough about the modem in use.

If the alarm isn't wired for line seizure, then it's OK, but it still needs to be ruled out as the culprit by taking it out of the equation for a while.

Re: phone only rings once

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

My vision has never been good enough for the simple visual check, but I do know how to do it.  Thanks Bruce

Re: phone only rings once

DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around

@User14should read this ...

http://spoonhandle.com/technology/2012/8/12/proper-phone-line-seizure

Since he has a mix, where does the alarm sit?


Taken from another site ...

It's hard to say without knowing the model of the alarm system.  Most of the time I have run into this issue the phone wiring for seizure has been reversed when changing phone providers to a digital phone provider, so instead of using the red and green to the alarm, it is coming in on the yellow and black, so the alarm tries to dial out to communicate and is unable to but still ties up the line -- so it doesn't seize the line as it is intended to, but just takes the phone off the hook, like you said it is as if another phone is off the hook.  Depending on who monitors your alarm system, it might be best to have an alarm technician come take a look at the phone wiring. Comcast guys typically don't know how the alarms are supposed to be wired for phones.  Did you change to Xfinity phone service recently or have you had anyone out working on the phones?

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