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When is enough enough?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

I have been a rogers's customer for YEARS. Over the last few years there have been more and more technical issues. I have "VIP" including TMN and what it includes (in other words pay for the noise) Luckily no home phone but have “high” speed internet…

 

The internet is no gift either.

 

Recently I could not save movies. After a week of being told it was only me, they finally admitted is was a known issue. Today is the 7th day I have not been able to access TMNOD and MEOD for several hours. Last night it stopped saving movies. Tonight no access again - Perhaps this is permanent. After 45 minutes on the phone I am told again it is my problem (even though the box downstairs is also unable to access.)

 

Same thing different day.

 

This is just the last month.

 

Any advice?

 

 

Signed Hopeless...

 

 

 

***Edited labels***

55 REPLIES 55

Re: When is enough enough?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

Hi,

This problem is still not fixed.

 

Today a technician came - the signals were fine but both boxes have same problem – He found a bit of rust in the box (?) outside (I assume just where the cable goes into the house.)

 

They are going to redo the cable – tomorrow supposedly.

Nobody at Rogers suggested something local. They said it was either both boxes OR at Roger’s end.

 

Question:

I can access the diagnostic screens on the digital box (3200).

It’s not on the PC so I cannot post all the info – I have to write it down.

What are the relevant things I should write down to post here?

Thank you!

Re: When is enough enough?

The three items of interest are the Locked / Unlocked indication, Power Level and Signal to Noise Ratio.  On the example screens these were on page 5.  So what you can do is take a survey from the bottom channel to the top channel.  Five points should give you some idea of what it looks like across the spectrum.  Try something like this:

 

                                      Bottom    -   Mid Low   -   Middle    -   Mid Hi     -   High

                                     Channel       Channel       Channel     Channel     Channel   

Lock / Unlock

Power Level dBmV

Signal to Noise dB

        



Re: When is enough enough?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

Thank you!

 

I don't understand; however:

I am viewing page 5 on the screen:

I only see "locked" under both "CURRENT FDC" and "CURRENT QAM"

S/N 26 dB under FDC AND 37 dB under C. QAM

and power (which I see under "C. RDC") is 44 dBmV

 

The levels on my TV (FDC and QAM) are negative values and on the diagram from the link you provided are positive

mine are -4 dBmV (FDC) and -6 dBmV (QAM)

 

Is any of the above useful?

(This is for channel 310 (one of the non-functioning on demands))

The power is is stable at 44 dBmV (under C. RDC)

 

Changes in S/N:

23 dB | 36 dB

 

Signal to Noise should be a high number right? (Otherwise it would have XS noise?)

 

THANK you so much!

As I say I really do not understand but I would really like to: It is interesting!

 

Re: When is enough enough?

It looks like you have a signal level problem, its just a question of how low can it go before the channel becomes unuseable.  The target with these modems, internet/tv/phone is 0 dBmV.  Typically there is a range +/- 10 dBmV within which they should theoretically operate.  The one thing to remember is that if you are at -3dB on anything, you are down to a half power point.  In your case, on both power numbers you are down below half power.  The signal to noise ratio is also low, 26 dB, which in part is a product of a weak input signal.  Those two, in combination is probably resulting in the channel being ususeable.  From the linked page, you should see If the value displayed is in yellow, the level is marginally too high or too low. If the value displayed is in red, the level is unacceptably too high or too low.  Are any of those values, or any others showing up in yellow or red at all?

 

The one thing to remember is that the cable losses go up with frequency.  So, to counteract that, Rogers ramps the ouput at the node so that its higher for the higher frequencies.  The end product, at the receiver, should be a fairly consitent signal level and signal to noise ratio across all channels. 

 

Have a look at the following statements:  Corr Bytes is the number of bytes received in error that have been successfully corrected by the forward error correction (FEC) code.Uncor Blks is the number of data blocks received in error that were unable to be corrected by the forwared error correction (FEC) code.Errs Avg/Inst is two numbers. The first number indicates the total number of data errors encountered averaged over the time the frequency has been locked (Seconds, above). The second number indicates the number of errors that have been encountered since the las time the screen was refreshed (every 3 seconds).EQ Gain is the QAM equalizer gain. This is only applicable on QAM data channels. If the value is in yellow, there is a marginal signal problem that should be corrected. If the value is in red, there is a serious signal problem that needs immediate attention.

 

Are you seeing a large number of uncorrected errors and large number of received data errors?  That would also be a product of a signal problem and low signal to noise ratios.

 

Have a look at a low channel data set (for a channel that works) and see how those numbers compare.



Re: When is enough enough?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

Thank you so much again!

 

I am looking at the 1st screen (I just reset (unplugged / replugged) the box I'm on pg. 1

RF params:

tuner =537,000 MHz    -6dBmV      0/Sec (avg)

FDC = 73750 MHz  -4 dBmV    0/Sec (Avg)

RDC = 19,000 MHz  47 dBmV   47 dBmV (607 usec)

 

I also did compare 701 with 024 (channels) and they were very close.

 

On page 5 of the linked article, the S/N under C. FDC is N/A

 

There have been no error or error corrections however, now on 310 (one of the onDemands (not working)) the S/N for RDC is 26dB --> now 25 dBmV

The orange for level (only RF) is 9 dBmV (mine is -2)

 

Wouldn't a booster help (Instead of a cable replacement?)

 

"Have a look at the following statements:  Corr Bytes is the number of bytes received in error that have been successfully corrected by the forward error correction (FEC) code. •Uncor Blks is the number of data blocks received in error that were unable to be corrected by the forwared error correction (FEC) code. •Errs Avg/Inst is two numbers. The first number indicates the total number of data errors encountered averaged over the time the frequency has been locked (Seconds, above). The second number indicates the number of errors that have been encountered since the las time the screen was refreshed (every 3 seconds). •EQ Gain is the QAM equalizer gain. This is only applicable on QAM data channels. If the value is in yellow, there is a marginal signal problem that should be corrected. If the value is in red, there is a serious signal problem that needs immediate attention."

 

I will post back these later tomorrow

 

I really appreciate your expertise and help!

Thank you!

Re: When is enough enough?

Looking at those numbers, the tuner and FDC power levels are below where they should be (0 dBmV), so my thoughts are a low power issue is at hand. Its interesting that you don't see any errors or error corrections.  I would have thought that the decoder process would be ramping up those numbers consistently for that channel.   You will see a good comparison from now to tomorrow when the cable is replaced.  Adding a signal amp is only good when you have a clean signal to start with.  If there is any amount noise within the boosted bandwidth to start with, you end up boosting the signal you want, as well as the signals that you don't want, which is the noise component.  In that situation, if the input filter on the receiver isn't narrow enough, then the receiver input is a combination of amplified (signal plus noise), which puts you back where you started. 

 

The best situation is usually to tackle the source of the noise and get rid of it once and for all.  That could mean installing a higher grade of cable which has lower signal losses for a given length, or physically moving cables around so that the cable with the problem has less noise input from other nearby cables.  The same could be said for the cable path in your house.  RG6 does not perfectly protect the carried signal from all noise sources around it.  The degree to which an unwanted signal is imposed on the RG6 cable depends on the proximity to other electrical cables and equipment within the home.  There is foil shielding around the conductor on the cable which for the most part does a good job rejecting and shielding the carried signals from unwanted influence around the cable, but like anything else, with a large enough external signal, you could end up with noise imparted on the cable.  That is where the tech will compare power levels and signal to noise levels at the cable entrance to the house and at the receiver location to ensure that the internal length of cable, to the receiving modem (cable receiver), is operating within limits that the modem will accept.



Re: When is enough enough?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

Hi and thank you so much again!

They sent a residential tech yesterday (Instead of the tech who should have replaced outside cable) who made it worse.(Both functionally and on the screens)

He replaced adapters / connectors.

He would not deal with anything outside.

 

At least I think I understand the screens now! - Thanks!

Following the visit yesterday:

The Dx screens (on both [3200 and 4290]) have errors corrected and uncorrected. The 4290 QAM level is as low as -9 dBmV (orange)!

 

The power for the 3200 dropped 41 MHz instead of 44 mHz

 

The S/N’s have all decreased for both digital terminals - 3200 and 4290.

 

ROGERS NEW PLAN:

TODAY (8/18/14):

They are going to upgrade both boxes.

On Wednesday (8/20/14) a senior technician is supposed to come and fix the problem.

Sort of reverse of what I would do…

 

"Its interesting that you don't see any errors or error correction"

Now there are: both boxes (3200 and 4290) have corrected and uncorrected bytes (FDC and QAM)

 

There is a booster involving the 3200 and which seems to involve the surfboard SB5120 modem.

"Antronix VpOi residential amplifier.

MVRA501GB (ON TOP) ON BOTTOM: MVRA501B/AC

Integrated M0cA PoE filter

FWD 52-1002 MHz (0 dB Noise filter)

Rtn 5-24 MHz 0dB 0 dBNoise filter)

12 V | 400 mA (Phone -4 dB)"

I don't know if the above makes any sense?

 

These are the measurements the technician got BEFORE he replaced the connectors / adapters)

Upstairs (3200 ?and ?modem?)

5 dB

4 dB

6 dB

 

For the 4290:

1 dB

1 dB

1 dB

 

I guess the signal strengths that the telephone technicians measure are the input at the outside box(?) before the cable goes through the box and into the house?

 

So if both boxes have on Demands errors, would the problem be somewhere between the outside box (maybe inside the outside box) up to and maybe including the splitter(?)

 

I don't think it is at Rogers [I.E. before the individual cable splits off (to the house) from the main? street? cable because

1. I don’t see others having same problem

And

2. The signal strengths (I guess these are TO the house (download)) are normal (according to Rogers phone support)

 

Can one assume the cable from the street to the outside box is okay? (at least the upload component) before it hits the outside box)?

 

 

"or physically moving cables around so that the cable with the problem has less noise input from other nearby cables."

I do not understand this

 

That is where the tech will compare power levels and signal to noise levels at the cable entrance to the house and at the receiver location to ensure that the internal length of cable, to the receiving modem (cable receiver), is operating within limits that the modem will accept."

The tech that came today was not interested in the S/N's....

 

 

DIAGNOSTIC SCREENS (Other readings after the adapter / connector replacements)

3200

Page 4

STATUS

"Tuning Mode - Uninitialized" Isn't there something wrong - shouldn't it be initialized?

"Tuner State: - Found QAM"

 

PAGE 5:

Current QAM

Freq: (Channel 310) Varies 111.000 MHz <-> 5xx.000 MHz

 

I am watching a movie right now on 310 which IS working.

There are 0 un and corrected bytes for CURRENT QAM.

There are 51 corrected and 31 uncorrected bytes for CURRENT FDC.

 

(BTW now power is 44 dBmV.) – I don’t know if the power increase allowed me to watch the movie?

 

Errs Avg/Inst is 0 / 0

and
EQ Gain is 1.0 (Both have been consistent).

 

I do not understand why the measurements the Residential tech got yesterday are in dB?

I do not know what units the signal strengths are that the phone techs say are good?

 

I don’t understand what dBmV is: “The dBmV is a voltage value relative to a reference – in this case 0 dBmV”

In the context of level. (Or in any context)

 

 

Thank you so much again!

Re: When is enough enough?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

"Update"

When is enough enough? – [please reassess]

Smiley Sad

 

Yesterday Rogers installed 2 NextBox 3 boxes and replaced the modem.

The instal took 7 hours. -> A SECOND tech (?senior) had to come.

 

The NB3 downstairs has lost the audio completely (second time today)

 

There is no user manual (although the piece of paper I was given:

  1. rogershelp.com/digitalcable/guides/HD_EIG_ON.pdf 

refers to the user guide (which we don't have.)

 

The modem (new upgraded) is slower.

I have called Rogers 5 times today;

 

One should call Rogers technical support to find out more about the boxes since apparently there is no user guide.

 

After being hung up on I called a manager who is going to send a second level technician tomorrow who will fix everything (including outside).

 

They do not give any $ credit for any of this.

 

There have been so many mistakes in this (in every aspect). I don't see others having MULTIPLE problems...

So any ideas?

 

I also have questions:

1. how to roubleshoot no audio on NB3?

2. If one pulls the plug and plugs it back (I.E. resets it), are there any other things involved or is it the same as the 3200?

(would I risk losing the picture along with the audio?)

3. Since I was again told today that there was a problem with the signals, how can I access the diagnostic screens on the CISCO NB3?

4. Is it possible to record TMN onDemand and Encore onDemand with the NB3 PVR (or only pay per view)?

5.  I still think there should be a user manual - where is it?

 

 

Smiley Frustrated

Smiley Sad

Smiley Mad

Thank you

Re: When is enough enough?

5) there is no user manual on the new guide really per say. 😞  But ask your questions, we are pretty good with it.

 

4) you are not able to record ANY on demand, on any of the boxes ever, as far as i was aware.

 

3) hold down exit till the power light blinks, then pres down, down, 2

 

2) Pulling the plug is the easiest thing to do to reboot the unit.. you'll loose everything till it comes back up.

 

1)
For this audio loss.. WHEN is it happening... LIVE tv? or just on recorded?
How is the unit connected? what cable, etc.

(might be a few fixes/tweeks, but need to know first)



Re: When is enough enough?

OLDYELLR
I'm a Senior Advisor

@YtanyaY wrote:

 

There is no user manual (although the piece of paper I was given:

  1. rogershelp.com/digitalcable/guides/HD_EIG_ON.pdf 

refers to the user guide (which we don't have.)



There is no user guide for the Rogers version of this box, but Cisco does have one for their generic model, which records just 6 programs at once. Read this post:

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/PVR_settop_boxes_remotes/message...


Rogers PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario

Re: When is enough enough?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

Hi OLDYELLR and Gdkitty,

I thank you both very much

 

"1) For this audio loss.. WHEN is it happening... LIVE tv? or just on recorded?
How is the unit connected? what cable, etc.

(might be a few fixes/tweeks, but need to know first)"

 

Not recorded - PVR has not been used yet

Wall -> cable -> box:

USB cable from box to TV.

 

The audio returned after pulling the plug...

 

"4) you are not able to record ANY on demand, on any of the boxes ever, as far as i was aware."

 

I used to be able to record from TMN OD and ENCORE OD.

 

There still are signal issues; but I have been able to watch onDemand since they installed the NB3.

 

Thank you for the link to the manual!

 

I'll post back after the Rogers second level technician has diagnosed things

assuming I can ...

Smiley Wink

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

 

 

Re: When is enough enough?

4)

I am wondering if with the older boxes... the PLAYBACK used to be done via a channel.. it played the info back on channel... 950 or something?  Maybe that allowed it to record it somehow.
With any of the newer generation ones.. it plays the playback, more as an OVERLAY.. not on a channel.. so no way to record.

 

 

1)
When you say USB, i am assuming you mean HDMI? (they are kinda similar 🙂 )

 

Hmm.. well lets look at a few things anyways.

(dont have my box infront of me so cant give specifics)
Go into the settings, then find where it has the RESOLUTION for the video.
IF its set to 1080p.. change it back to 1080i (nothing outputed is higher than this anyways).
Give that a try.

If that doesnt fix it.. might be one other thing, but give that a go first.



Re: When is enough enough?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

Gdkitty

You are very helpful and I appreciate it!

 

I cannot use large font or colored text!

It keeps "correcting" it!


@Gdkitty wrote:

4)

I am wondering if with the older boxes... the PLAYBACK used to be done via a channel.. it played the info back on channel... 950 or something?  Maybe that allowed it to record it somehow.
With any of the newer generation ones.. it plays the playback, more as an OVERLAY.. not on a channel.. so no way to record.

 

I cannot seem to do sectional quotes ...

 

It was not too long ago that I could record from TMN OD and ENCORE OD. When it was not possible Rogers told me I would be able to record OD with a rogers PVR.

 

1)
When you say USB, i am assuming you mean HDMI? (they are kinda similar 🙂 )

 

That is what I meant

 

Hmm.. well lets look at a few things anyways.

(dont have my box infront of me so cant give specifics)
Go into the settings, then find where it has the RESOLUTION for the video.
IF its set to 1080p.. change it back to 1080i (nothing outputed is higher than this anyways).
Give that a try.

 

I cannot find "VIDEO resolution" on settings.  All it has is appearance and video output: normal | stretched | and zooms e.g.25%.


If that doesnt fix it.. might be one other thing, but give that a go first.


I did not get very far. I will look at the manual after but I was just called by the "ROGER'S SECOND LEVEL TECHNICIAN WHO IS GOING TO FIX EVERYTHING".

The technician who just called is NOT a second level and he is subcontracted by Rogers.(He is a regular non-rogers technician.

 

The work order apparently only stated

RF signal

rust in box.

 

His signal meter has broken and he cannot get another one.

 

I was PROMISED BY TWO managers that today a SECOND LEVEL TECHNICIAN WAS COMING.

How can they do this?

 

I really do not know who to contact now?

 

I am spending LITERALLY 75% of my life dealing with rogers. AND iNACCURACIES.

 

Thanks again Gdkitty!

 

Re: When is enough enough?

Depending on your area... MOST areas, have 3rd party technicians.. They use INTEK where i am, but LINK-ON more south of me

 

They do have different level of technicians..  so they could have sent a more SENIOR one.

 

Not often will you see an actual rogers one in those areas.. the rogers ones tend to be more the MAINTENANCE ones.. the ones who work on the big boxes, the nodes, the street cables, etc.

 

 

Resolution... hit settings, then appearance, then TV type.