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Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

Qdriver
I Plan to Stick Around

OK, so if theres any help out there that would be fantastic. Long story short, I had the CGN3 a while ago and returned it after a frustrating battle with AirPrint compatability. I got a smaller modem and purchased and bridged my own Dlink 1750AC router,

 

Just recently due to changes to Rogers services I "upgraded to this hybrid-fibe 150" and was forced to take the CGN3 back. Instead of being frustrated again I bridged this hitron box as well to my Dlink.

 

Heres my issue, which to most may seem silly, but Ive noticed a signicant difference in WiFi download speed between my 35-40 Mbps and the 150 Mbps thats listed in the plan. I understand there are many factors keeping below an actual 150 but I'm nowhere close to what I'm paying for, which went up BTW.

 

Today with a Rogers Tech guy we did ethernet-connect the CGN3 to my laptop and tested it with great results at 195 Mbps. So I'm assuming the drop has to do with either settings in the modem or router, aspects with the bridging, or with my Dlink which is supposedly a high-end router. Naturally the tech guy didnt want to offer much as it relates to the 3rd party box.

 

Any ideas out there, before I call Dlink?

 

 

***edited labels***

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Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

I was thinking along the same lines. Check to see if you can get the same data rate via ethernet connection. If that works, the issue is with the wifi setup or with the capability of what you are trying to connect to. If you have a reduced data rate, then possibly the issue is with the cabling that exists between the two devices. As an example, troubleshooting a similar issue today for a wired connection, I was maxing out at approx 200 Mb/s sec in my office, and 50 Mb/s in an upstairs room. After replacing a connector, which did nothing to help at all, I noticed that the basement DLink switch which was standing vertically, resulted in the connector to the upstairs room backing out of its port on the back of the switch ever so slightly. Lay the switch flat and voila, 200 Mb/s upstairs. So, small issues like that were not detectable at lower data rates, but now with the CGN3 pushing higher rates, attention to details, like ratings on connector cables, the quality of the connectors, etc, are warranted. Having a test platform that you know will support those higher data rates is another requirement. If you still have problems, can you post a description of the complete circuit, end to end.


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Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

VivienM
I'm an Advisor
What wifi cards are your client machines running?

To get 150+ megabits over wifi, you need some serious 5GHzing, most likely 802.11ac.

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

VivienM
I'm an Advisor

One other thought: try connecting via a cable to the back of your D-Link router.

 

If it delivers the 195 megabits/sec I would expect to see, then that means the issue is with your wifi setup. Either the D-Link router's side, or your clients' side.

 

(And I'll admit, I've gotten 195 megabits/sec speedtests over wifi. But that's running Intel 7260AC cards connected to an Asus RT-AC68U. My iPad 3 gets 40 megabits/sec over 5GHz wifi... because that's the most its single-stream 802.11n can do. My iPhone 5 does about 90, I believe it has 2 streams...)

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

I was thinking along the same lines. Check to see if you can get the same data rate via ethernet connection. If that works, the issue is with the wifi setup or with the capability of what you are trying to connect to. If you have a reduced data rate, then possibly the issue is with the cabling that exists between the two devices. As an example, troubleshooting a similar issue today for a wired connection, I was maxing out at approx 200 Mb/s sec in my office, and 50 Mb/s in an upstairs room. After replacing a connector, which did nothing to help at all, I noticed that the basement DLink switch which was standing vertically, resulted in the connector to the upstairs room backing out of its port on the back of the switch ever so slightly. Lay the switch flat and voila, 200 Mb/s upstairs. So, small issues like that were not detectable at lower data rates, but now with the CGN3 pushing higher rates, attention to details, like ratings on connector cables, the quality of the connectors, etc, are warranted. Having a test platform that you know will support those higher data rates is another requirement. If you still have problems, can you post a description of the complete circuit, end to end.


Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3


@Datalink wrote:
So, small issues like that were not detectable at lower data rates, but now with the CGN3 pushing higher rates, attention to details, like ratings on connector cables, the quality of the connectors, etc, are warranted. Having a test platform that you know will support those higher data rates is another requirement. If you still have problems, can you post a description of the complete circuit, end to end.

The crazy thing is, I think you can still walk down to Best Buy today and buy a low-end laptop with a 10/100 wired NIC and a single-stream single-band 802.11n wifi card. And that hardware will... not be able to catch up with the 150+ megabit tiers. And then I'm sure someone will come to a forum and blame the CGN3 or Rogers. 🙂

 

That's the thing with tiers over 50-60 megabits. There's a LOT of consumer hardware out there that can't handle speeds higher than that. Routers, 10/100 NICs, 10/100 switches, single-band wifi cards, crappy Cat 5 cables, etc.

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

Qdriver
I Plan to Stick Around
Pls bear with my certain level of broadband illiteracy and maybe one of the remedies for me would be a better education. The router is dual-band 2.4 and 5GHz which is up to 802.11ac and from what I've read supports link rates up to 450 and 1300Mbps for each band respectfully. Would that mean that relatively high WiFi connection or download speeds be attainable based on the service which it runs off of?

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

Absolutely agree with VivienM. I think we are going to see more issues like this in this forum, which is definitely ok, as there are people here who can help. Prior to posting for help however, have a very close look at every piece of equipment in your network and try to determine if in fact they will support the data rate you believe you should be seeing. That entails everything from cable specs, to switch specs to WiFi modes of operation and also computer and/ or laptop ethernet or WiFi specs. I suspect that carefully examining each network segment and it's spec might in fact answer the question of why the data rate that you are seeing isn't as fast as it should be. Also think about the possibility of a bad cable or bad connection, and look for ways to test each segment, starting with the CGN3, and working outwards, towards the other end of the circuit, adding one segment at a time. When all else fails, send up the white flag and post for help, including as much info about the network circuit as possible so that others can help troubleshoot.


Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3


@Qdriver wrote:
Pls bear with my certain level of broadband illiteracy and maybe one of the remedies for me would be a better education. The router is dual-band 2.4 and 5GHz which is up to 802.11ac and from what I've read supports link rates up to 450 and 1300Mbps for each band respectfully. Would that mean that relatively high WiFi connection or download speeds be attainable based on the service which it runs off of?

What wifi cards are your clients running?

 

If your client is a retina MacBook Pro (2013) with 3-stream 802.11ac, then yes.

 

If your client is a Dell or Acer that you upgraded with an Intel 802.11ac card, then yes.

 

If your client is a 2009-era netbook or consumer-grade laptop with a single-stream single-band 802.11n Realtek (why am I picking on Realtek?) card, then no.

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3


@Datalink wrote:
Absolutely agree with VivienM. I think we are going to see more issues like this in this forum, which is definitely ok, as there are people here who can help. Prior to posting for help however, have a very close look at every piece of equipment in your network and try to determine if in fact they will support the data rate you believe you should be seeing. That entails everything from cable specs, to switch specs to WiFi modes of operation and also computer and/ or laptop ethernet or WiFi specs. I suspect that carefully examining each network segment and it's spec might in fact answer the question of why the data rate that you are seeing isn't as fast as it should be. Also think about the possibility of a bad cable or bad connection, and look for ways to test each segment, starting with the CGN3, and working outwards, towards the other end of the circuit, adding one segment at a time. When all else fails, send up the white flag and post for help, including as much info about the network circuit as possible so that others can help troubleshoot.

I agree with all of this, but I also want to add one other point: real estate.

 

For example, at my parents' condo, there is a bathroom between the router and my mom's equipment. And I believe those walls to be concrete. So she gets an awful wifi signal - with 2.4GHz equipment, she was maybe lucky to get about 100KB/sec (so 800 kilobits) Internet download speeds. With a CGN2 it was more like zero. I tried weird powerline access points too, that improved things for a while, but then that gear got D-Link disease and became flakey. An additional part of the problem was that the bathroom weakened their 2.4GHz signal enough that the neighbours' network actually had comparable or higher signal strength.

 

I finally 'fixed' the problem with brute force - an Asus RT-AC68U on one end and her new retina MacBook Pro on the other. The laptop reports a 351 megabit/sec link rate. Since that gear, if it was next to each other, could do 1300 megabits/sec, that means the walls are eating over 70% of the theoretical performance. But luckily, the 27% she does get is more than enough for networked backups and their 30 megabit/sec Rogers service...

 

27% with a lot of cheaper gear, though, would turn you (or Rogers) into an embarassing Netflix performance statistic.

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

Qdriver
I Plan to Stick Around

Ok I Got it. Im only seeing half of the picture. Definitely getting educated. Its like you said Im being one of those simple consumers that jump to conclusions just because it says something on one box. We run several devices in our home including multiple ipad and iphones, smart TVs, and a laptop and I never did think its what they're capable of receiving.

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3


@Qdriver wrote:

Ok I Got it. Im only seeing half of the picture. Definitely getting educated. Its like you said Im being one of those simple consumers that jump to conclusions just because it says something on one box. We run several devices in our home including multiple ipad and iphones, smart TVs, and a laptop and I never did think its what they're capable of receiving.


Yup, you got it...

 

Really, getting 150 megabits/sec on a wifi connection in the real world basically requires a perfect multi-stream 5GHz 802.11n connection (and even then, I don't know what you can get, I don't have an Intel 6200 or 6300 or a 2012 Mac to test with right now), or 802.11ac. And 802.11ac clients are rare - a few Android phones, 2013 Macs (but not iThings), a few other random things, that's about it...

 

So the question, with most of your gear, is how much less you'll be getting. If you give us more details on the gear we can help you figure that out. (For Windows laptops, check in device manager what wifi cards they have and tell us that.)

 

Also, one other thing, you probably want to run separate SSIDs for your 2.4 and 5GHz networks. Make sure every device that supports 5GHz is set up to connect only to the 5GHz SSID. Unless you live in the country (in theory 2.4GHz has better range, in practice it's so congested in moderately urban areas that that's academic), you'll get better performance that way.

 

Soon you'll turn into me, and every time you are looking at getting a wifi-enabled device, you will go poring deep into spec sheets to confirm it has dual-band support, 802.11ac, etc... (friendly advice: that means you won't be buying Windows laptops at Best Buy anymore... or you'll learn to upgrade their wifi cards with your trusty Phillips screwdriver)

 

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

Qdriver
I Plan to Stick Around

VivienM wrote:

Soon you'll turn into me, and every time you are looking at getting a wifi-enabled device, you will go poring deep into spec sheets to confirm it has dual-band support, 802.11ac, etc... (friendly advice: that means you won't be buying Windows laptops at Best Buy anymore... or you'll learn to upgrade their wifi cards with your trusty Phillips screwdriver)

 


lol I think I'm getting there already. Just in my investigating since your first message Ive already noticed the new items (mainly microsoft) that are coming out supporting 802.11ac. There's even a book I noticed that was called "Wireless 802.11ac for Dummies" Its too bad I had to learn this now, that the limiting factor with these newest Rogers services are actually the clients and devices that are to be used with under it. I may have decided differently in upgrading.

 

But I will know for the future at least and can plan around it with future aquisitions. As for my current stuff, I'll be satisfied that my situation is solved now that I understand. The majority of our devices are Ipads and Iphones which you discussed already. My laptop card is on the Intel WiFi link 1000bgn, 802.11b/g/draft n that only operates on the 2.4 band so I've read. The LG tv is a 802.11n standard for both 2.4 and 5.

 

I think the only thing we have done correctly, is like you mentioned, we do keep all of the 5GHz capable devices on that band. So not a major issue, i mean 40Mbps being the lowest on everything we have is still decent and more than enough to do everything we normally do, (stream netflix, download our music, work documents, things like that). Now that I see the bigger picture, im a little more at ease.

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3


@Qdriver wrote:

 

But I will know for the future at least and can plan around it with future aquisitions. As for my current stuff, I'll be satisfied that my situation is solved now that I understand. The majority of our devices are Ipads and Iphones which you discussed already. My laptop card is on the Intel WiFi link 1000bgn, 802.11b/g/draft n that only operates on the 2.4 band so I've read. The LG tv is a 802.11n standard for both 2.4 and 5.

 


Is your laptop HP or Lenovo? If yes, stop reading - wifi cards can't be upgraded in HPs and Lenovos because there is a whitelist in the BIOS. Put an unauthorized wifi card in, and the thing won't boot.

 

If no, then you may want to look into upgrading it. A 7260AC can be picked up at Canada Computers for about $34. Depending on how your laptop is designed, the surgery may be straight forward or may not be...

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

A little late to jump into this thread.. but might be able to add some stuff to it 🙂

A) how long have you had the CGN3 just recently?  Some people found, until it was on the latest firmware, some speed issues in bridged mode.  Should be on 4.2.4.3... if its not, can take 72 hours from setup, to be pushed out.

 

B) Wireless network setup.. on BOTH bands. (2.4 and 5)

How are these networks setup?  Are they in b/g/n mode? or N only.  Setting them to say b/g/n or g/n will allow more LEGACY devices to attach... BUT can often throttle the speeds back to G range, even when connected with an N device.  Unless you need it i would sugest changing it to N only.

As well, with the security part of it.   Make sure, you are on AES only... again unless you have a device that needs it.  Some have found that leaving TKIP as well, will also throttle the speed downwards to the 54m range.

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

Qdriver
I Plan to Stick Around

VivienM wrote:



Is your laptop HP or Lenovo? If yes, stop reading - wifi cards can't be upgraded in HPs and Lenovos because there is a whitelist in the BIOS. Put an unauthorized wifi card in, and the thing won't boot.

If no, then you may want to look into upgrading it. A 7260AC can be picked up at Canada Computers for about $34. Depending on how your laptop is designed, the surgery may be straight forward or may not be...


 Ok sounds great. Its good to know that I can speed up at least one of the items, and seems fairly straight forward..The laptop is a VIAO, so I assume that would work?. Its too bad that the Apple stuff are stuck were they are since they make up the most use of our home network. When I looking it appeared that even the newer Ipad Air runs on the same Wifi as the older Ipad 3's.

 

Anyway I was also thinking about taking a step back and going to the lower 60 Mbps plan. It apparently comes with other little tidbits like Tech Expert which may come in handy for guys like me.

 

 

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

Qdriver
I Plan to Stick Around

@Gdkitty wrote:

A little late to jump into this thread.. but might be able to add some stuff to it 🙂

A) how long have you had the CGN3 just recently?  Some people found, until it was on the latest firmware, some speed issues in bridged mode.  Should be on 4.2.4.3... if its not, can take 72 hours from setup, to be pushed out.

 

B) Wireless network setup.. on BOTH bands. (2.4 and 5)

How are these networks setup?  Are they in b/g/n mode? or N only.  Setting them to say b/g/n or g/n will allow more LEGACY devices to attach... BUT can often throttle the speeds back to G range, even when connected with an N device.  Unless you need it i would sugest changing it to N only.

As well, with the security part of it.   Make sure, you are on AES only... again unless you have a device that needs it.  Some have found that leaving TKIP as well, will also throttle the speed downwards to the 54m range.


I just got this CGN3 about 2 days ago. I cant seem to log into the box to verify the firmware, I'm assuming cause its bridged?

 

As for the "B" item how would I go about verifying the mode for both bands?..generally speaking. I know routers have their own specific way of setiing up. And then in ,general how I change the modes if its needed?

 

I also read somewhere that changing the channels may also have an affect on the routers output. Is this also something I could potentially look into?

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

All plans, can 'potentially' come with the techxpert+200g.. either by paying, or by getting it free, due to the other rogers services you have.

 

 

 

Correct, when its bridged.. its POSSIBLE but a real pain, to check the firmware.  Easiest way is put it back to un bridged, then back to bridged again when your done.

 

Varrys from model to model to check your settings.. so couldnt really say for yours in specific.

It will usually be in the area were you set up the SSID name, set the security, etc.
Will usually be listed as something like wireless mode.. then show options b/g/n, g/n, n only, etc

Then usually in the spot where you choose the TYPE of security you want.... WEP, WPA, WPA2, etc.
Make sure to choose WPA2, and IF it gives the option of Tkip, tkip & AES, AES.... choose the AES only option.

 

Changing channels.. CAN help.. if there is interfearance on the other channels.

You can download a program called inSSIDer here
http://www.techspot.com/downloads/5936-inssider.html

 

If you can run this on a device with a DUAL BAND card it it.. would be best (otherwise will only show you the 2.4).

But it will graph out, ANY wireless access points it can see in the area.. their signal strengths, etc.
You can use this, to choose a channel, with the LEAST amount of interfearance. 

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3


@Qdriver wrote:

@VivienM wrote:



 Ok sounds great. Its good to know that I can speed up at least one of the items, and seems fairly straight forward..The laptop is a VIAO, so I assume that would work?. Its too bad that the Apple stuff are stuck were they are since they make up the most use of our home network. When I looking it appeared that even the newer Ipad Air runs on the same Wifi as the older Ipad 3's.

 

Anyway I was also thinking about taking a step back and going to the lower 60 Mbps plan. It apparently comes with other little tidbits like Tech Expert which may come in handy for guys like me.

 

 


I would not assume anything re the Sony laptop. I've done wifi card upgrades on Acers and Dells, those are fine, but you should probably do some serious Googling first to see if there are any BIOS whitelists and whatnot. notebookreview.com tends to have good forums where people talk about this stuff. If you can get a service manual for your particular model that shows you how to reach the wifi card, that helps too...

 

The iPad Air should have better wifi performance than the 3. The 4, IIRC, added MIMO antennas, which double performance? But honestly, for an iPad, I think even the max-40-megabits/sec performance of my 3 is more than good enough. Other than downloading apps, what else needs high transfer speeds on an iPad? Streaming services (e.g. Netflix) are unlikely to stream over 5-7 megabits/sec to a tablet, I don't think...

 

Maybe this year's iPad will have 802.11ac, but I suspect that Apple is in no hurry to add that unless they can get 802.11ac controllers that use no more power than the existing 802.11n ones.

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3


@Gdkitty wrote:

Varrys from model to model to check your settings.. so couldnt really say for yours in specific.

It will usually be in the area were you set up the SSID name, set the security, etc.
Will usually be listed as something like wireless mode.. then show options b/g/n, g/n, n only, etc

Then usually in the spot where you choose the TYPE of security you want.... WEP, WPA, WPA2, etc.
Make sure to choose WPA2, and IF it gives the option of Tkip, tkip & AES, AES.... choose the AES only option.

 

Changing channels.. CAN help.. if there is interfearance on the other channels.

You can download a program called inSSIDer here
http://www.techspot.com/downloads/5936-inssider.html

 

If you can run this on a device with a DUAL BAND card it it.. would be best (otherwise will only show you the 2.4).

But it will graph out, ANY wireless access points it can see in the area.. their signal strengths, etc.
You can use this, to choose a channel, with the LEAST amount of interfearance. 


But while I agree with all this, I think it's a waste of time in the OP's specific case. The Intel 1000 wifi card will do a max 150 megabits/sec in theory, so 30-50 in the real world doesn't seem that anomalous to me...

 

That being said, hmmmm, I just tested my 7260 card on 2.4GHz, and I got 97 megabits/sec on speedtest.net. That seems much higher than what I would expect... but the laptop was also 1.25m away from the router. 5GHz 802.11ac delivers 190 megabits/sec.

Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

The one thing I would add is to survey all of your devices to determine their specific requirements or capabilities. For example some might only be 802.11 b/g, some might be b/g/n, and others might be 2.4 GHz only, or 2.4 and 5 GHz capable. Once you know what devices support what modes, it then becomes a decision, what devices do I really want to support. Do I need to support the older devices, or am I just interested in the newer ones which support higher data rates, given the possibility of speeds locking down to lower rates if they are made available. After you have made that decision, you then match up the router settings in terms of operating modes. For those devices which support both 2.4 and 5 GHz, you might want to kick them up into the 5GHz band to get away from interference issues if you think that is a problem. Using inSSIDer will allow you to see the interference that might exist on both 2.4 and 5 GHz and give you a better idea of what channels are clear and how busy your neighborhood is in terms of wifi activity. The only issue with operating at 5GHz is the reduced range compared to 2.4 GHz. Is that an issue? Only you can determine that given the location of the router and devices throughout your house. That would take some experimentation on your part to determine.

 

As for stepping down to a lower data rate with tech support, it comes down to whether or not you can make use of the higher bandwidth on your pc’s and laptops and whether or not you are willing to do a little research and reading to solve potential problems and pose questions here when the need arises. I’m sure that there are numerous people here in the forum who can assist in solving problems that come up.

 

The newer version of inSSIDer is a pay version, $20, which supports 802.11ac. This is also available in a mac version.



Re: Slower speeds, bridged CGN3

Yeah, the link i listed for inSSIDER is the last NON AC version.. but still free.

 

While making the changes i suggested are not necessary.. it will remove any potential choke points which could reduce the overall rate.

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