Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

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emcdonald
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 20

Re: Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

Ok, so the CRTC got back to me.  They replied:

 

  • Commission staff has received your correspondence, dated 19 August 2011, in which you express concerns about issues regarding Rogers Communications Incorporated’s use of Internet traffic management practices (ITMPs) and online gaming, and the game World of Warcraft in particular.
  • Commission staff notes that Rogers recently submitted a report to the Commission entitled “World of Warcraft Testing,” which explains the test methodology Rogers used to determine that there was a problem with its traffic management equipment that could misclassify World of Warcraft traffic, prior to a software modification Rogers implemented in May 2011. The report also includes results of the software tests the company completed.
  • Commission staff is forwarding a copy of Rogers’ abridged report on World of Warcraft testing to you for your information.
  • We have filed your e-mail correspondence under file number XXXXXX and at this time, your particular file is considered closed. Please note that concerns about the speeds you receive are addressed by the CCTS, as this is not regulated by the Commission, and as such, you should contact the CCTS in this regard (http://www.ccts-cprst.ca). However, should you wish to file a specific complaint regarding the effect of Rogers’ ITMPs on specific applications you are using, please refer to Telecom Information Bulletin 2011-609 for information on the type of information required by Commission staff in order to follow up on your complaint.

Here is a link to the report they mentioned.  

 

Abridged Report on WoW Testing

 

TLDR is they began whitelisting Rogers server traffic to not be subject to ITMP.  They do mention though that once the traffic hops to their crossing partner they do not feel responsible and it's not their concern.  That part to me seems unacceptable.  Also, their "tests" did not include 25 man raids, nor even activities in capital cities.  Looks like they fired up low level characters out in the wilderness and said, SEE!  not getting flagged by our system.

 

I don't know.  I think this is a pretty poor, quick way, to get the CRTC off their back and not worry about it.

skinorth
I'm an Advisor
Posts: 842

Re: Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

@emcdonald:

 

you state: " That takes some serious nerve."  Nah, not really.  You think you guys play games.  Well, Rogers management plays games too, but real financial games.

 

What they appear have done is a serious cost-benefit analysis.  The cost of allowing you guys the bandwidth you need to play WoW is the negative effect it would have on their network and the great thundering herd of Rogers customers who are not game players.  This would result in many, many more upset customers than what results from having a small but vocal group of game players upset at them.  As a result they throttle you guys and the P2P guys as well.

 

The alternative for Rogers is to invest large sums of money in the build out the network infrastructure to meet peak demands caused by game players and others requiring fast real-time response.  The dollar cost of that seems to be too large and not worth it if all it does is satisfies you guys who want to play games.

 

So, there you have it, financial games versus WoW.  Who will win?  Could be a thrilling battle..........

 

skinorth

 

 

 

Ressy
I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 176

Re: Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

The only problem with that..

 

Wow uses less bandwidth in a single month than a single Netflix video. 

 

Wow just needs the connection to be stable...  It can run on a 1/512 connection easily.

 

CGO's still working on this.  Our response is due tomorrow.  It'll be filed by then, but we're not posting it publicly til Monday due to real life responsibilities tomorrow & weekend for both Jason & myself - (Jason's working this weekend, and my son's birthday is tomorrow so we are visiting family this weekend).

emcdonald
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 20

Re: Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

@

 

 

From the report I posted it would seem Rogers has solved part one of the problem.  That being the game being flagged improperly for ITMP.  The second part is "THEIR" cross over partner is at max capacity which causes extremely high pinged hopps trying to reach the Blizzard servers causing spikey connections, drops and bascially you can't play the game.  From my perspective, everything is fine on my computer and on Blizzard's end.  Rogers service at $100 a month simply can't make the game work with their current partner.  If Rogers would admit this is their responsibilty and work with "THEIR" partner to resolve this, that would make me happy.  As of right now though, Rogers has only ever said it has nothing to do with them, and tough luck.  

 

Why I commented that they have some nerve and have been vocal and upset about this is they simply say in one breath, yes our service allows online gaming, but then when that service fails to provide access to online gaming due to who they have chosen to partner with for their crossover, we are told.. Oh, ya, sorry about that, but that's not our problem so good luck to you, bye.  I am thrilled they took steps to stop the ITMP on the game.  That was the right thing to do.  I wish they had of been more open about it in these forums, but have to pick your battles right, lol 😉  

 

So basically, I never signed up for a service that can not handle games.  I specifically asked that question when I joined in fact.  If Rogers wants to post on the front page of their website, "our service may or may not handle online video games, and in the case where Rogers can not provide access to your game we will simply dismiss your complaints and continue to receive payment in full until such a time as you wish to cancel", then at that point I'll have nothing to complain about.  Until then, I want what I have been paying for, and that is a stable connection with low latency to wow servers.  You would think the "Ultimate" service package could handle that, lol.  It's frustrating!

 

  

skinorth
I'm an Advisor
Posts: 842

Re: Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

@Ressy:

 

OK.  If you average it out over a month or even a day, that may be true.  But what about bursts of data required for the realism of real time response for gaming?  How does that compare with for example, Netflix?

 

skinorth

 

Ressy
I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 176

Re: Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

@skinorth

 

Wow bursts are STILL lower than what Netflix requires during the entire length of a single video.

Wow runs on a 1/.512 connection easily.. **bleep**, I was seeing .5/1 during problems with Teksavvy (Rogers being slow as molasses to upgrade links Teksavvy ordered 9 months in advance), and was still running fine. 

 

Netflix recommends at least .5/? for the lowest settings, and it'll use the entire thing and still look like junk.

 

Wow's usage is 300mb a month.  Thats freakin tiny compared to video.

xplornetsucks
I'm a Trusted Enthusiast
Posts: 225

Re: Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

Looking at the Rogers/Cisco document it  APPEARS according to the one graph Voice/video is COMPLETELY hogging the spectrum, so if they can "whitelist" traffic.. it also appears they are FAVORING video/voice over other network traffic.

 

What does Rogers mainly sell... cell/home phone connections and Video content... so as their traditional methods of delivering these 2 core products, either through Cable Television, or cellular connectivity... they have simply switched and PRIORITIZED this traffic through the internet... Video on demand, home phone through VOIP etc etc... 

 

Which is Fine, but they are rebuilding their Voice and Video on the backs of internet users, without upgrading their INTERNET to handle the added pressure and demands... Many ISPS claim P2P traffic, has been a huge drain on their systems, when it isOBVIOUSLY EVIDENT in FACT the true drain on Rogers Internet is offering High Volume content such as video on demand, TV over internet to smart phones, home computers etc etc... 

 

Blizzard has stated the average WOW user will consume aprroximately 300 MBs per month playing the game.... so lets say 10 MB per day!!!! If Rogers Can't set aside 10 MBs per Day, per subscriber to have a stable connection.. then in fact, when Rogers states it has the fastest internet in Canada...it is lying to consumers and the CRTC..

 

My Real world testing ... NOT in a lab trace route...


Tracing route to us.logon.battle.net [12.129.206.130]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 180 ms 110 ms 99 ms 74.198.28.241
3 88 ms 99 ms 109 ms 172.25.120.81
4 88 ms 110 ms 139 ms 172.25.11.73
5 88 ms 249 ms 99 ms 192.168.1.75
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 524 ms * * 74.198.28.18
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 1434 ms 129 ms 129 ms 69.63.248.250
11 248 ms 110 ms 129 ms 69.63.248.241
12 428 ms 129 ms 139 ms 69.63.250.130
13 199 ms 129 ms 129 ms 69.63.248.93
14 109 ms 129 ms 129 ms TenGigabitEthernet9-2.ar7.NYC1.gblx.net [64.208.
169.149]
15 248 ms 229 ms 219 ms 192.205.34.69
16 178 ms 179 ms 280 ms cr1.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.123.30.18]
17 279 ms 259 ms 239 ms gar10.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.104.45]
18 188 ms 190 ms 319 ms 12-122-254-230.attens.net [12.122.254.230]
19 179 ms 209 ms 209 ms mdf001c7613r0003-gig-10-1.lax1.attens.net [12.12
9.193.242]
20 12.129.211.34

skinorth
I'm an Advisor
Posts: 842

Re: Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

@xplornetsucks, et al:

 

you guys obviously know your stuff, and I defer to your position.

 

I wish I knew what to do under the circumstances.  The "free" Internet obviously is no more.  As a technology It has been pre-empted by the usual capitalist forces.  I don't think that this issue is top-of-mind to those occupying Wall Street or Bay Street, or any other street in Canada (do Canadians really do that??).

 

The CRTC is not helping us much.  Harper's government is not going to do anything to upset the corporate apple cart.  We are currently seeing lots of evidence of that.

 

So, we have about four years to formulate our strategy.  It will only get worse in the meantime.

 

skinorth

 

 

Ressy
I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 176

Re: Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

CGO filed our response last night, and its a doozy..  Due to issues with Jason & I not having time for media stuff this weekend, we'll be releasing it on Monday along with our press release.

gabbie1977
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 37

Re: Rogers throttling/deprioritizing World of Warcraft

@xplornetsucks, Roger is not the fastest network in canada. Bell is. In fact in a news release earlier this year, it was advertised since Bell & Telus have the fastest network in Canada, rogers could not longer claim that. Now you will hear on commercials that Rogers has the most "reliable" network in canada. Just a play on words to make you think its the best.