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Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

Gurkamal
I Plan to Stick Around

I was recently looking at the wifi certificates for several routers and gateways on the wifi alliance's certification site, and I stumbled upon a device named CGN3-ROG. This device is dated to have received it's certificate on June 6 of 2013, and having the -ROG suffix means its a rogers device, just as with the CGN2-ROG. The certificate is linked below, along with a link to the CGN3 and it's specifications.

 

http://certifications.wi-fi.org/pdf_certificate.php?cid=WFA20016

 

http://www.hitron-americas.com/products/cgn3/

 

The CGN3 is an upgraded version of the CGN2, providing even faster speeds, and a 5ghz wifi 3 stream wifi band, along with a 3 stream 2.4 ghz wifi band. 

 

The fact that it has just recently showed up on the site means that it must be currently in testing by Rogers, since the device itself isn't exactly "new".

 

Along with the 5ghz band though, it also seems to missing key features that the CGN2 has, namely WMM power save, and many of the option capabilities that allow devices to perform better over wireless N.

 

Hopefully it's better than the mess that the CGN2 was! Smiley Very Happy

 

Edit: I was also able to find another link pertaining to the CGN3-ROG and release notes about something, not too sure what it means though: ftp://222.92.145.140/CGN3/CGN3ROG-4.1.4.1/2GX2/CGN3-ROG%20Release%20Notes-04-22-13.doc

 

 

***edited labels***

79 REPLIES 79

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

techguy001
I'm a Reliable Contributor

I just upgraded to Rogers Internet Hybrid 60/10 from Rogers Extreme (previously at 35/3 and was on this for many years).   Slightly lower price now and was looking forward to the higher upload at 10 Mbits/sec.  I was surprised though that I was told that I had to upgrade my gateway/router as well and could no longer use the Cisco DPC3825 Docsys 3.0 unit.    I would have expected that the Cisco was still more than capable for the 60/10 speed of Hybrid 60.   In any case since the unit rental is now included in the slightly lower price, I went to the store and swapped it out for a CGN3.    I was worried to get one of these given all the problems people have reported here with the firmware and software on this device being unstable and not providing full speed subscribed for.

 

I brought the CGN3 home and connected it and worked right away.   In default gateway mode though I immediately had a problem with download speed in that I was only getting about 10 Mbits/sec download but was getting the full 10 Mbits/sec upload so I knew the account have been modified with the new device.   I had read in this forum that others have had a similar problem.   Based on what I saw with the new CGN3 I believe I don't have the upgraded firmware on the device yet.  

 

Rather than getting on the phone with tech support i decided to just put the device into bridge mode as that is how I would operate anyway and in bridge mode with all gateway functions turned off, all is well now.   I'm now getting over 80 Mbits/sec download consistently and 10 upload (I know Turboboost makes the download numbers better than they really are) so for now I'm happy.   

 

Now to see if the service is as reliable as it was with my old Cisco gateway over the next few days.   Hopefully I will receive the upgraded firmware soon enough as well.  

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

Without it on the newest firmware.. it might have an issue where you need to reboot it in a few days.. but that is fixed with the new firmware, and hopefully should have it by then.

 

While i wasnt on the newest firmware, i was just barely a sub version off.. no issues getting the 30 speeds here.. but most seem to have an even older version right out of the box, so could be it was partially fixed by the version i had.

 

What i am GUESSING, is they are trying to get more and more over to the CGN3... well ontop of the potential $ rental increase... is the channels.
The more channels you have, and that your usage is devided amongst them, the LESS you get congestion.
This was the BIG issue with the D2s.. while they could get the SPEED of some packages.. often only 1 channel.
The cisco 3825 is only an 8 downstream modem... vs the CGN3 is a 24 channel.

 

Myself, being on just even the 30/5 package.. it spreads it across 20 channels.

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

Daphoid
I've Been Here Awhile

I too have just "upgraded" to the CGN3 as a result of my move to Hybrid Fibre 250. I've had to power cycle the thing three times now. However, I did force it to bridge mode even before letting it connect to the internet once last night when I got it home. I've factory reset it and its at 4.2.4.1 firmware.


I've read in multiple places that 4.2.4.3 is performing much nicer for folks. So I'm heading out town for the weekend and will leave it in its normal gateway state. Hopefully the updated firmware will get pushed while I'm away.

 

- D

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

lethalsniper
I'm an Enthusiast
I'm having the same issue with my hybrid 60. Slow speeds, high ping with packet loss. Coming from extream + didn't have any issues like this. So how's your speeds now?

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

techguy001
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Not sure who you are asking question to but as of today, I have Hybrid 60 for 24 hours now.   I too had no issues with my older Cisco DPC3825 router and Extreme.   On Hybrid 60 and CGN3 I still don't have firmware upgraded yet so am still on 4.1.4.5.   Waiting a few days to see how long it might take for it to happen on its own before I call in to have them force upgrade to 4.2.4.3.

 

With firmware 4.1.4.5 Gateway mode just doesn't work properly.   Best download speed I get is about 10 Mbits/sec which is pathetic.   Speed is also unstable and varies a lot.  GUI interface is very buggy also.    Haven't tried wireless on this unit as a gateway as I use my own router for that so can't be bothered.

 

In bridge mode with all Gateway functions turned off all is well for now with stability and good speeds.   Will see if this changes in next few days.   See my comment above for other details.

 

 

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3


@techguy001 wrote:

I was surprised though that I was told that I had to upgrade my gateway/router as well and could no longer use the Cisco DPC3825 Docsys 3.0 unit.    I would have expected that the Cisco was still more than capable for the 60/10 speed of Hybrid 60. 


Ultimately, it comes down to one simple technical fact: the Cisco can bond 8 downstream DOCSIS 3 channels (so a total of 304 megabits/sec) while the CGN3 can do up to 24 channels (right now, in my area at least, Rogers has 20 channels deployed, so 760 megabits/sec). Keep in mind that these channels are shared with your neighbours... 

 

Rogers wants you to use a device that can balance your 60 megabits of traffic across 20 channels instead of across 8. And, while I also miss my Cisco, I think that that makes sound engineering sense... they want to have the highest-traffic customers using the newest, most efficient, easiest-to-scale technology. It happened in 2003-2004 when they got every technical user to buy D2 modems (and dump the Terayons) for the first-generation Extreme; it happened again a few years ago when they made the speeds/caps higher for the same price when running D3 hardware; and it's happening again now.

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

techguy001
I'm a Reliable Contributor

HI VivienM,

 

I get all that and was already aware, but that's a lot of equipment to write off across all their customer base.   Also, you would think that if they were changing their network for the better ( a positive thing ) that they would announce some of this stuff with more clarity and that they would co-ordinate all of this with their customers and notify them, including maybe updating their web site to show that?   As of now, they still have the same 3 modem devices listed for internet services as before the Hybrid change.  

 

I'm glad they are now including the gateway/modems in the package.   The HITRON CGN 3 at $ 12 / month is a rip-off and I would never have paid that much for such a terrible device as a router, especially how buggy it has been.   It really makes you wonder if Rogers ever tests anything before deploying it.  That's why I stayed on the previous devices for as long as I could.   As a modem the CGN3 seems ok even with 24 channels, but as a router at a list price of $ 250 it's ridiculous.  You can get the top of the line best AC level routers from ASUS or LINKSYS now for that price that are light years better. 

 

For me, these devices will only ever be used as a modem only device and will leave the routing and gateway functions to third-party devices that actually work.  

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3


@techguy001 wrote:

HI VivienM,

 

I get all that and was already aware, but that's a lot of equipment to write off across all their customer base.   Also, you would think that if they were changing their network for the better ( a positive thing ) that they would announce some of this stuff with more clarity and that they would co-ordinate all of this with their customers and notify them, including maybe updating their web site to show that?   As of now, they still have the same 3 modem devices listed for internet services as before the Hybrid change.  

 

I'm glad they are now including the gateway/modems in the package.   The HITRON CGN 3 at $ 12 / month is a rip-off and I would never have paid that much for such a terrible device as a router, especially how buggy it has been.   It really makes you wonder if Rogers ever tests anything before deploying it.  That's why I stayed on the previous devices for as long as I could.   As a modem the CGN3 seems ok even with 24 channels, but as a router at a list price of $ 250 it's ridiculous.  You can get the top of the line best AC level routers from ASUS or LINKSYS now for that price that are light years better. 

 

For me, these devices will only ever be used as a modem only device and will leave the routing and gateway functions to third-party devices that actually work.  


I don't think that much equipment is being actually written off, though. Enthusiasts and other heavy users are trading in their Ciscos and CGN2s for CGN3s. Those Ciscos and CGN2s can go back in the field as rentals for people on the 30/5 or 10/1 tiers (and the equivalent older plans) which I'm sure make up a huge percentage of Rogers' subscribers. And it wouldn't surprise me if plenty of people still were running DOCSIS 2 gear, so that obsolete 10-year-old equipment can be replaced with our Ciscos. I doubt Rogers cares much about people like my parents (monthly usage: 14GB) using older, less-scaleable equipment for a few years.

 

As for (not) notifying people, I think there is method to their madness. I don't know if you were around in 2003-2004 when Rogers decided that, if you bought a DOCSIS 2 modem for $80-100, you could get the new 'Extreme' tier with higher speeds for the same monthly fee as 'Express' with modem rental included (before this, modems were included in the monthly fee). Word spread fast, despite no official communication - every technical user and their family and friends rushed to return their Terayons within the next week and moved to DOCSIS 2. (A lot of these customers downgraded back to Express when the monthly fee increased a few years later) And with every moderate or heavy user having dumped the Terayons, I'm sure there suddenly was enough capacity on the Terayon system to keep all the other Terayon customers quietly humming away for a couple more years. Seems to me like they got what they wanted (people off Terayon) far more efficiently than if they had started to send everyone letters trying to get them to exchange their modems.

 

(Interestingly, my parents kept that purchased DOCSIS 2 modem until the day when Rogers decided you'd get double the speed and 20GB extra if you had a D3 modem. A few weeks later my dad was 'instructed' to pick up a D3 modem...)

The 'genius' of this approach is that low-tech, low-usage, high-support, most-likely-to-panic customers don't get disturbed. Their grandkids don't get panicked phone calls saying 'I just got this weird letter from Rogers and my Internet is going to die in a month'. If anything, the grandkids, on the next visit, will notice the older modem and tell grandma that if she just exchanged it, she'd get higher speeds/caps/whatever. The downside, of course, is that in the meantime, these customers are getting lower service for their money...

 

And yes, I agree about the devices' functionality as routers. My parents have a CGN2. I thought, being foolish and naive, that for their very limited needs, the built-in Rogers thing would be good enough. Nope. That thing wound up in bridge mode after a day or two - its wireless signal was too weak to be useful in a condo. If their CGN2 gets replaced with a CGN3, it's going straight into bridge mode and they are keeping their Asus RT-AC68U...

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

lethalsniper
I'm an Enthusiast
So what your saying Is that the hybrid fiber 60 is not better then the original extream plus? Because I just got the hybrid fibre and it's slow and getting high pings. I have the CGN3 firmware 4.1.4.5.

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

techguy001
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Hi VivienM,

 

I agree with much of what you've said, but I would never put the word "genius" and Rogers in the same sentence or paragraph.   They could be doing so much better if they even tried to keep their customers happy and could reduce their churn.   I think they're successfull despite themselves and primarily because much of the public is unaware of the technical elements and that we simply have too little choice in the Canadian market along with too little competition.  

 

As for the communication, I agree but you would think that their web site contents would at least match up with what they are publishing across the board and not leave pieces out of date to further confuse matters.

 

 

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

techguy001
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Lethalsniper,

 

It is better if things worked as they should.   With your current firmware version and using the CGN3 as a full router, you are not getting the full service you are paying for.    You might want to get on the phone to tech support and ask them to force the firmware update on your device.      

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3


@lethalsniper wrote:
So what your saying Is that the hybrid fiber 60 is not better then the original extream plus? Because I just got the hybrid fibre and it's slow and getting high pings. I have the CGN3 firmware 4.1.4.5.

No, it is better. What I'm saying is that it's not really different from a technical point of view. If you had the CGN3 with Extreme Plus two weeks ago, it would have been the exact same thing, just the modem set to a lower speed... (of course, you were probably running an 8-channel modem two weeks ago, just like almost everyone else...)

 

If it's slow and packet lossy, call Rogers. It shouldn't be. They can also see whether other CGN3s in your neighbourhood are being packet lossy, which would point further in the direction of a signal problem...

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

The website, is mostly correct as to which/what is needed.

Under the new plans, under the details, it says which modem is needed for that plan.
(pretty much the CNG3 except for the 30/5 and 10 packages, with the CGN2.

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

techguy001
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Well, for once I have something positive to report about Rogers Internet.   Sure enough within 2 days of my upgrading to Hybrid 60/10, my CGN3 modem/gateway received the latest firmware update without me having to call in to get it done.   It is now at latest version 4.2.4.3 as was reported here before and it does seem to solve some of the problems I saw with performance and stability when I first plugged it in with older firmware 4.1.4.5.

 

I still put it back into bridge mode as my own ASUS router performs much better, but it's nice at least to see that the CGN3 is somewhat usable with the latest firmware applied.

 

 

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

dn87
Rogers Employee
Rogers Employee
I am on the latest firmware and still see my ethernet speed drop by half when using my existing router. I only get the proper speeds with the CGN3 in gateway mode. I'm on Hybrid 60, so according to specs it should be working. Or am I missing something?

http://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/wifi-routers/WNDR3400.aspx#tab-techspecs

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

Gdkitty
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

The only thing i can think.. is it has to do with how it connects to the router.

 

It seems, that primarily 10/100 WAN connection routers, seem to have the issues.

 

That unit, is only 10/100.  Being on the 60 plan, you SHOULD be ok with that..

 

But i am wondering if it just a linking problem for it bing 10/100.

I just put an ASUS N66U with 10/100/1000 and am getting well over promised 30/5 here (speed tests showing 35/5.5 on a WIRELESS speed test... vs my desktop which is out of the gateway, into a gigabit switch, then to PC, only gets 32/5.)

Re: Rogers has a new gateway coming up! - CGN3

dn87
Rogers Employee
Rogers Employee
Hmmm. maybe time for a better router. To be honest I am having no issues using the CGN3 as a gateway aside from a "moderate" nat setting on my xbox one (which does not affect gameplay).. I miss the range of the N600 (best range I've ever seen on a router) but my DLNA server never worked properly with it, and now my DLNA works great. Might just stick with the CGN3 in this case. Thanks for the help!
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