- last edited on by
RogersCorey
Switched modem, bought a router, new ethernet cable, reinstalled windows, used it in bridge mode, got the 33T3 firmware, upgraded internet from 250u to 1gig.
Kinda done with this. I guess the only option is to just switch to a different provider.
Can't maintain 3000 bitrate let alone 6000 bitrate with the gigabit connection.
Thanks Rogers!
- last edited on by
RogersTony
I posted this on a 3rd party internet support forum (and the people there were quite helpful!), however I figured I'd post it on the official Rogers forums to see if I could get additional support.
I've had Rogers internet for about two years now and pretty much for the whole time I've had it I've been dealing with very high albeit stable pings. This is especially apparent when playing online games with local friends where in a peer to peer 1vs1 connection games are essentially unplayable while in large team-based games where the latency of all the players is displayed in a scoreboard (think counter-strike) I have significantly higher pings than everyone regardless of server location. When I run speed-tests the lowest pings I can achieve are ~90ms from certain servers while in others, even local server (less than 50 miles away) pings range from 100-120ms.
This is especially frustrating in games that have matchmaking and you search for opponents based on connection strength. Since my connection poor with most other people who play online I either have a very hard time finding opponents and when I do manage to find someone to play with the connection is often very choppy and oftentimes unplayable so after finishing a round they leave.
I've contacted support multiple times and they've told me this kind of situation is completely normal, however I'm fairly certain it's quite the opposite. The technician mentioned that it was dependent on where my home is located, which seems a more like an excuse than anything. I currently have the 75 down 10up plan. Just wondering if these kinds of pings/latency are normal/expected? Anyone have any ideas what could be causing this exactly, is it an infrastructure issue, hardware, something else? Would upgrading to a DOCSIS 3.1 plan potentially lower my pings? I would be highly interested in upgrading to a DOCSIS 3.1 plan if it could potentially remedy my issue, anyone have experience with moving over to DOCSIS 3.1 from their previous plan and getting lower pings?
By the way, I have the CGN3ACSMR modem.
Here's a link to a few speed tests, starting from the closest server and moving further away:
http://beta.speedtest.net/result/6791684541
http://beta.speedtest.net/result/6791718207
http://beta.speedtest.net/result/6791719924
The gentleman on the other forum suggested I run a tracert, which I did to www.twitter.com and here are the results:
They suggested I ping the IP on the line below the modem IP on the tracert (the CMTS) which I did and here are the results for ping n10 and ping n1000 respectively:
Next they suggested I use pingplotter at the same IP address, the CMTS. I set it to a 0.01 second interval for the test and displayed the plots as 1 min, 5 min, and 10 minutes respectively.
Finally, I pinged the Rogers Domain Name Servers 64.71.255.204 at a 2.5 second interval for 24 hours
Results
Plot
All in all it's a very frustrating situation and I really wish it could be remedied. Any suggestions, tips, or any advice whatsoever would be greatly appreciated.
I was waiting to see your plot for the ping test to the DNS on the DSLReports post. I checked tonight and see that you added it with an edit rather than posting it in a new post. Sorry about that.
Ok, so:
- The plot to the CMTS shows ping spikes which I really didn’t expect to see. That’s one reason why I asked you to ping the DNS, just to see what would happen when you went beyond the CMTS. That ICMP ping to the CMTS was taken care of months ago, but I see that its back, so, I’ll have to ask what’s up. With those ping spikes present, that makes local troubleshooting a little more difficult than it should be.
- The pingplots to the CMTS and the DNS show packet loss, which shouldn’t be there. Running the ping test to the CMTS, Pingplotter can and will generate false packet loss indications depending on the interval. I didn’t expect to see that same packet loss to the DNS. To confirm that packet loss, if and when you have time, run a command line ping to the CMTS and just let it run for 24 hours to confirm whether or not you have packet loss to the CMTS. If there is packet loss, then you will need tech support to issue a work order for a tech to check the internal and external cables and connectors. First order of business is to use a simple command line ping to run a ping test for confirmation purposes. I trust the command line results far more than the Pingplotter results when it comes to packet loss. If, when you’re running the ping test, you see that there is regular intermittent packet loss occurring, call tech support and ask the CSR to ping the modem from the CMTS, or, ping the CMTS from the modem, either one will work, for the purpose of detecting packet loss. When you see packet loss occur, then the CSR should see that as well. At that point the CSR should arrange a tech visit at your convenience.
- The plot to the Domain Name Server is pretty stable around 30 ms. That’s pretty high, personal opinion, but, that also depends on the transit distance. From Ottawa, my ping time to 64.71.255.204 averages around 12 to 13 ms. The point to note here is that the plot is stable, without constant ping spikes, so, I’m not worried about the ping spikes that exist between the modem and CMTS.
- Are you using Google or OpenDNS for a DNS, and if so, are they set in the modem? If not, as in, you’re using the Rogers DNS and the modem’s DNS Obtain setting in the BASIC SETTINGS …. DNS tab is set to Auto, then you are using the Rogers suggested DNS addresses. If you know that your devices are using the modem’s DNS address, as in you don’t set the DNS addresses in the connected devices, then you can check the following:
- Run an ipconfig/all command at a command prompt;
- Look at the Ethernet Adapter data group, specifically the DNS Servers listing.
- If the DNS address is something other than 64.71.255.204, then perhaps your CMTS is providing the nearest Rogers DNS address. I would run a ping test to that address to see how it compares with the 204 address in terms of the return time.
- The plot results for the ping test to the 204 DNS address show various Rogers server addresses, including a 10.202.47.225 address which is most likely a Rogers internal address before the ping hits the Domain Name Server. I was wondering about the possibility of the data route travelling via the US with Cogent, but, it looks like the ping stays entirely within the Rogers network.
After all of this there is still another test to run which is a UDP DNS request test to the same .204 DNS address. That would show what was done with the UDP latency issue on that modem. I’d be very interested in seeing that if and when you have the Wireshark plot available. That plot will provide part of the explanation for ping spikes in game, where the communication between the server and end device is usually UDP. The instructions for running a 1 second interval test to the DSN is shown here:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31737637-
Although it only runs at 1 second intervals, it will show ping spikes if they occur during the DNS request transit outbound or inbound.
Another question afoot is the routing for the games that you play. I don’t know if the route is from Newfoundland to Toronto and then to the game servers, or if there is a short cut for Atlantic Canada. If I remember correctly, @JohnBeaudin is also from Newfoundland and may have more information on this one. The Rogers staff who can look into this are @RogersKevin and @RogersDave. They are in the forum from time to time and no doubt will see this at some point in time. So, there isn’t an immediate answer on this one. Can you ping one of the game servers that you use and post the results, including the server addresses. That alone would probably indicate the route that the game would take, although there isn’t a guarantee that the routes would be identical.
Ok, here’s the homework list for now:
- Please log into the modem and determine what Software (firmware) version is loaded on the modem, as shown on the STATUS page.
- Navigate to the DOCSIS WAN page and copy the downstream and upstream table, all in one go, top to bottom. Ignore the data that resides above the downstream table. Paste that into a post. The copy and paste process will paste in the text contents of the tables. Maybe the downstream table will show indications of low signal levels or signal to noise ratios which would explain the packet loss.
- Run a command line ping test to confirm whether or not there is any packet loss between the modem and CMTS. It up to you if you want to run that for 24 hours straight, or chop it up into shorter time periods.
- Please let me know what DNS addresses are shown in the pc’s ipconfig/all results.
- If you’re interested, run the UDP DNS test, capturing the data with Wireshark first. Run that for at least an hour and when you stop the test, save the data file and then plot the data as indicated in the following link: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31737637-
- Run an IPV6 trace to google: tracert -6 www.google.com I noticed on your DSLReports post that the address for google was resolved, but, the trace timed out at the modem. I’m not sure if it timed out after that as well as you didn't post the remaining portion of the trace. If all you ended up with are timeouts, all the way to google, then there is some IPV6 problem afoot. The addresses should resolve all the way to the end as well. So, if there is an IPV6 issue, Level I tech support can’t help. That would require a Level II tech at tech support. You can ask the first Level I CSR to pass you onto a Level II tech to see if there are CMTS IPV6 issues afoot and attempt to troubleshoot the issue. If nothing else, the Level II tech can pass the observation on to the Network Engineering Staff to resolve. You should also be able to ping both the modem and CMTS using IPV6 addresses. If there is some issue on the go, I would disable IPV6 in the modem for now. Navigate to BASIC SETTINGS …. GATEWAY FUNCTION and switch the Router Mode from Dual (stack) to IPV4. The modem will take two to three minutes to switch over on its own. I usually run modem reboot after switching over, ADMIN …. DEVICE RESET …. Reboot Device.
- If you happen to be running an Electronic Arts Xbox game that requires matchmaking at the front end, disable IPV6 in the modem as EA matchmaking and IPV6 don’t play together. This is an EA IPV6 issue apparently which they will have to resolve. For whatever reason, they don’t fall back to IPV4, so this leave users without the ability to find matches for one on one games. That’s unfortunate as IPV6 gets rid of Port Forwarding issues with IPV4, so, this situation forces players to use Port Forwarding and ensure that they get it right in order for the game to operate. If you’re using any other (as in non-EA) game, I would expect that you can use IPV6 and not have any problems in finding matches or running the game.
Ok, that should keep you going for a little while 🙂
Edit: Food for thought. I see that the price for the 150/15 unlimited is 79.99 versus the 75/10 which is 84.99. That 79.99 is for twelve months according to the Rogers page. The point to note is that the unlimited plan would make the CODA-4582 modem available. This modem is an Intel Puma 7 modem which doesn't suffer from the latency issues that the CNG3xxx Intel Puma 6 modems suffer from. Plotting the UDP response time with the CNG3ACSMR should show some interesting results, and ..... the 4582 doesn't suffer from UDP latency issues. Now, having said that, there are issues afoot with this modem. Some users are reporting slow than expected data rates while others are reporting DHCP and Wifi issues. These aren't constant across the network, but, they're proving to be a challenge to resolve. I run the 4582 in Bridge mode with an Asus router and haven't seen any issues with slow data rates. So, depending on whether or not you are on a bundle plan, or have some flexibility with the internet plan that you're one, you may want to consider this.
Thanks in advance for all the help you've given me so far, it's super appreciated.
1.)
| Software Version | 4.5.8.27 |
2.)
Downstream
Upstream
3.)
CMTS 24 hour ping test
4.)
Here are the DNS settings for the modem
However, weirdly for the auto settings when I do ipconfig/all the DNS server is listed as my modem IP address
5.) I ran the UDP DNS test for about an hour and captured the results with Wireshark, here's the graph. I used www.facebook.com as the target. If this doesn't look like I displayed the data on the plot correctly let me know and I'll try again.
6.) I did the tracert -6 www.google.com however it just timed out again, not sure if I'm doing anything incorrectly, what I did was I went to the command prompt and just typed "tracert -6 www.google.com" and the only thing I got was the timeouts.
If this the case, I guess like you said my only option would be to disable IPV6 and contact the tech staff?
I didn't try disabling IPV6 yet but I'll try it later.
7.) I'm not playing any EA xbox games, I generally play one vs one fighting games, specifically Street Fighter 5 on the PS4. As far as I know for fighting games the connection is peer to peer. This may sound strange but based on my own experiences when I play online versus players who are local (i.e. Friends who use either Bell or Rogers internet in St. John's) the connection is often laggier than if I played against someone located in Quebec or Ontario. Although I can generally find matches in Street Fighter they're mostly laggy and often times unplayable, in other games it's mostly an issue because certain games that have matchmaking based on connection strength it can be almost impossible to find a match unless I set the search parameters to find 1 bar (the weakest strength connection).
For my personal use I'm directly plugged into the modem for both the PS4 and my PC. The only other internet user in the household is my roommate who is a light user and just uses the WIFI. You've mentioned that if I could upgrade to the 150/15 plan I could use the CODA-4582 modem, could that potentially lower my ping overall or will it essentially just benefit me by reducing those ping spikes I seem to be getting? You mentioned my ping to the domain name server was stable albeit high at around 30 ms, would it be somehow possible to reduce this to overall lower my latency?
Also, I'm currently not running my modem in bridge mode, if I were to buy a router and use it to facilitate bridge mode could that also lower my ping?
Any other suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again, you're truly and internet troubleshooting wizard!
Thanks for posting the data, here’s the rundown:
- You could sign up for the trial firmware versions if you’re interested. They are typically released to test modems weeks before the firmware version hits the network. Sometimes, due to observations seen on the test modems, the version isn’t released and is simply superseded by the next trial version.
- The Downstream signal levels are slightly low. 0 dBmV is the target, so your’s are ok and well within spec. The signal to noise ratios are good. The upstream signal levels are just at the top of the normal range for this modem. Typically the range for this modem is 36 to 40 dBmV with the maximum for three channel upstream DOCSIS operations at 51 dBmV. So, yours are ok where they are.
- Ping test for the CMTS turned out good, so, Pingplotter is showing bogus packet loss. I’m very satisfied with losing 6 responses over the course of the entire day. If that’s normal every day, you don’t have a packet loss issue.
- DNS settings. Modem DNS set for auto, so the connected devices would be using Rogers DNS. The DNS server line showing 192.168.0.1 as the DNS source makes sense, just wasn’t what I was expecting to see. I set the DNS addresses manually in the modem (when applicable) and in the router and pc’s, so I absolutely know what DNS is in use. I was expecting to see two IPV4 and two IPV6 DNS addresses in the data, so, hopefully you can see the IPV6 DNS addresses.
- The UDP test to the .204 DNS address is very interesting. That’s the first time that I’ve seen that plot from a CGN3ACSMR with updated firmware. It looks relatively decent, with peak times in the 35 to 40 ms range. Considering your ICMP ping times of 30 ms, that UDP result isn’t bad at all. The high UDP time might be due to something running on your pc at that particular point in time. Did you happen to check the Statistics …. DNS popup for the number of queries and number of responses to see what the losses were? There is a way to plot that and at the present time I’m in the middle of a couple of computer resets courtesy of Microsoft. When I’m finished I’ll update those instructions and repost them with a script to run this in high speed, which will run queries closer to gaming rates. For now, until I can post the high speed instructions, I’m relatively satisfied that the CGN3ACSMR isn’t terrible when it comes to UDP for gaming purposes.
- The IPV6 results aren’t good. When you run the ipconfig/all, you should see that the preferred address is an IPV6 address followed by the IPV4 address. The DNS data would also show the IPV6 DNS address and then the IPV4 DNS addresses. If you log into the modem, you should see two IP addresses in the WAN IP Address on the STATUS page. The STATUS page is displayed when you log into the modem. The WAN IP address is the upper right hand data field, where you should see the modem’s IPV4 WAN address followed by the IPV6 WAN address. If the IPV6 WAN address isn’t present, that indicates that the CMTS isn’t assigning the IPV6 address to the modem. It should. If it doesn’t, you can’t resolve this yourself. That will take a Level II tech from tech support. If he or she can’t resolve it, then it will have to be passed on to the Network Engineering staff to resolve. So, if the modem doesn’t have an IPV6 address, I would disable IPV6 in the modem. Navigate to BASIC ….. GATEWAY FUNCTION, and switch the Router Mode to IPV4 from Dual (stack). The modem will switch on its own in two to three minutes but I usually run a modem reboot as well, ADMIN ….. DEVICE RESET ….. Reboot. Reboot the connected devices as well. Its a little strange to see the trace attempt to run an IPV6 trace and start to timeout at the modem. I'm surprised that the google IPV6 address was resolved properly. Something is up but I'm not sure what the cause might be, so, killing IPV6 for now would probably be a reasonable thing to do. You can troubleshoot that with tech support when you have time.
- The lag in game almost sounds like the results of two routes from Newfoundland to Ontario and then to the game servers and back again. For friends located in St. Johns, playing a server hosted game, my guess is that both of you are routed to Ontario and then the game server, with your own separate data routes and then to the opposing player. For peer to peer, probably the same idea. Both players route to Toronto, connect in Toronto and then return to the opposing player. That’s just speculation on my part, but, that might explain the lag. Playing someone in Quebec or Ontario, they don’t have the long transit to the peering point or data exchange servers in Ontario. Can you do anything about that? Maybe if you were running a VPN to an exit server closer to the game server, or closer to your opponent for peer to peer games, but, I don’t have enough knowledge in this area to say if it would work and if it did, how well or poorly it might work. The newer Asus routers have WTFast built in, which is a gaming network, probably VPN, but, for peer to peer games, I don’t know if that would have any effect on the data transit times. I think the question is whether or not the transit times can be improved and the person to ask about that might be @RogersKevin. I haven’t seen him in the forum lately, but, he’ll see the reference to this post.
I was thinking that moving up to 150/15 plan with the CODA-4582 might be useful, but, after looking at your UDP plot, I don’t think that’s necessary. I don’t think that you’re seeing any additional game latency due to the UDP transit thru the modem, which is what I was thinking originally. I’ll repost those instructions along with the high speed scripts and get you to run a short test to see what the low interval UDP results look like. Having said that, Intel did come up with an update for the 4582 to address latency with high loads running thru the modem. If you’re in a situation where you’re gaming and your roommate is running a high streaming load, then this would be useful, but, see my comments just below.
I don’t think that buying a router would necessarily help, but, food for thought, Asus routers have an adaptive QOS feature that allows you to arrange the various classes of data in whatever order you want. That’s useful if you have different data types running thru the router and you want the gaming data to be at the head of the pack, so to speak. Have a look at the following Asus page and scroll down to see the Adaptive QOS section.
https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Networking/RT-AC86U/
So, I’m certainly not advocating spending money unless it’s necessary and based on what you’ve indicated so far, I don’t think that it’s necessary. But, that would be a judgement call on your part as to whether or not it’s worth having something like the Adaptive QOS at your disposal. In addition to that, Asus routers can use Asuswrt-Merlin, which is based on the original Asus firmware, but with enhancements added by Merlin. There is a data scheduling algorithm/system titled Fair Queuing Controlled Delay (fq-codel), which can be used in Asuswrt-Merlin. In essence, every internet router, or computer runs a data scheduling algorithm which determines which data is sent and when. There has been a lot of work in the last few years to improve the existing scheduling algorithms that have been in effect for a good number of years, in an effort to reduce scheduling delays and bufferbloat. So, fq-codel improves on this scheduling problem, resulting in improved latency thru the router. If you were in a situation with heavy loads thru the modem, then an Asus router with Adaptive QOS and fq-codel would be of interest. This is more of an fyi explanation, just to cover all of the bases at this point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoDel
Here’s a couple of suggestions to look at:
Take a look at the following post, specifically at the wifi settings and wifi environment section. My thinking here is to ensure that the modem’s wifi is running as efficiently as possible, more for your wired gaming benefit rather than improving the wifi performance. That should keep any buffering in the modem due to wifi connection issues down to a minimum.
http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Internet/slow-wifi/m-p/399949#M47222
If you’re interested, to check what DNS servers are used, as indicated by the CMTS, flip the modem into Bridge mode. Log into the modem and navigate to BASIC …. GATEWAY FUNCTION, and disable the Residential Gateway Function. Save the changes and the modem will reboot into Bridge mode. Reboot your pc as well. When the pc has an IP address, run the ipconfig/all command. That will hopefully show all IPV4 and IPV6 DNS addresses in the data. When you have that, flip the modem back into Gateway mode. Log into the modem using 192.168.100.1 to bring up the log in page. Navigate back to the BASIC …. GATEWAY FUNCTION tab and enable the Residential Gateway Function. Save the changes and the modem will reboot back into Gateway mode with its previous settings intact. Keep the time that the modem is running in Bridge mode to a minimum as the pc is relying on its own firewall for protection from all of the internet scanners out there. Grab the data and then retreat behind the modem’s firewall.
Ok, that should do it for now……
@Vurog670, can you log into the modem, navigate to the STATUS .... DOCSIS WAN tab, copy the entire downstream and upstream table and paste that into a post. Ignore the data that resides above the Downstream table as it's specific to the modem. The copy and paste process will paste in the text contents of the table.
Are you playing via ethernet or wifi?
Where are you located (apartment/condo/highrise)?
A point to note, some users with the CODA-4582 modem experience slower than expected data rates. I can only surmise that its possibly a noise problem in the DOCSIS 3.1 OFDM channel or a DOCSIS 3.1 processing issue with the modem. I don't have an explanation that I can offer at this point. Plan B would be to swap the CODA-4582 for a CGNM-3552 at the closest Rogers store. The modem model can be seen on the product sticker at the back of the modem. So, if you do swap the modem, check the modem model to ensure that you have the received the requested model.
@Mythen that kinda explains the problem. Have you been chatting with @RogersKevin or @RogersDave regarding this?
@Vurog670, ok, its interesting that you ran into the same issue with the 3552, which is a 32 channel Puma 6 modem. Taking a quick look at your signal levels, and signal to noise ratios, they're all good. Point to note, your modem is running DOCSIS 3.1 on the downstream side. If you have the gigabit plan and you're getting somewhere around 930 to 950 Mb/s on a speed test, then you're not affected by the slow data rate issue. My guess is that the Multiple Dwelling Unit (MDU) which provides data services to your building might be running at a fairly high load. Large buildings can have more than one MDU, and its also possible that the MDU that your modem connects to has some type of technical issue. You shouldn't see large spikes. The problem at the moment with the 4582 is that if you ping the MDU to check the return times, you will see spikes that are caused by the modem. Beyond the MDU, you won't see any latency spikes.
Are you seeing packet losses in LOL?
Here's one thing that you can do, and that is to run a UDP DNS query test to the Rogers DNS 64.71.255.204 Have a look at the following post that has instructions to do that. I'm assuming that you're on an unlimited plan, so you can let that run for a day and post the results. That plot should show if you're getting UDP latency spikes throughout the day or not. Fwiw, the 4582 doesn't have latency issues with UDP, ICMP, or TCP/IP. Going thru a heavily loaded MDU or CMTS might be a different matter, but, that won't be caused by the modem.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31737637-
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