Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

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I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 2

Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

Hello All!

 

i have been following this forum from a week or so. I have found a lot of good information scattered on the forums. Still i had some questions that I want answered. Following are some questions that I have that I am still unclear on. Insight and explanation of experts would be benificial to me and many. So here goes:

 

- What advantage do I get by using Asus RT - N66U(hereinafter referred as N66U) as a router instead of CGN3. From what I have read, routing performance of both the devices are same. I see most people here use CGN3 in bridge mode and use N66U as router. If there is no difference in routing performance then why such a trend? Instead dont it make more sense to use N66U as an Access Point to increase the WiFi coverage?

- On the contrary, what incentive do I have to use N66U as a router and keep the CGN3 in the bridge mode.

- Do I need to change the default DNS, maybe to Google or OpenDNS. I have heard using default DNS is not good for privacy?

- Is firewall in CGN3 on par with that of N66U.

- Can I assign DHCP range on CGN3 and to give static IP to N66U, in order to use N66U in  access point mode. If so, has anybody done this and can you please provide instructions?

- Some one mentioned that, if you have CGN3 as router Rogers can see your internal network.  Is that true? What repercussions can that have on privacy of the network? Does bridge mode alleviate this problem?

- If CGN3 is in router mode with wireless turned off. Is there a way to set bandwidth of individual LAN ports. I need 150 down for one computer at all times. Or do I need to have switch to manage this? BTW I have 250u ignite.

- Can I have wireless 'ON' for CGN3 while using N66U as an access point? My CGN3 is in basement and I have office there. I want devices in basement to connect to WiFi of CGN3 and  devices on first and second floor connect to access point i.e. N66U

 

Thanx in advance to all the members who take time to anser the questions on the forum.

 

Regards

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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,254

Re: Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

Weither this is PROPER or not..  But i know it works 🙂

First steps - Prep your CGN3.
- Log into your CGN3.

- Note what your IP range is for it.  192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1, etc.
- Go into the BASIC tab

- You will see the DHCP start and end values.  make sure this is set at something above.. if you dont plan on having many static devices, doesnt have to be to high.  Could be 192.168.0.10.  This will make it so it would never try to assign .2 , etc.

IF you are not using the CGN3 wireless at all
- Go to your wireless tab.

- Under both 2.4 and 5ghz.. you want to turn OFF wps.. and then disable the wireless.
IF you are using the CGN3 wireless

- You will still want to turn off the WPS in my opinion

- You will want to set your wireless channels as far away on each AP in general.. so you would want to put it say on channel 1 for 2.4, etc.
(Now, this is assuming that you dont have any other interfearance... a site survey may be in order.. if Datalink pops buy, usually has a good writeup on how to do it 🙂

 

 

Setting up your AP (the ASUS ones)
- You will want to connect to you Asus router seperately (not pluged into the CGN3 yet)

- Log into it.
- You will want to go into Administration

- Then on the first page shown, choose AP mode. (this auto turns off all NAT, firewall, dhcp, etc for it)

(this part i am a little rusty on, been a while since i set mine)
- It should run you through a wizard.  I beleive the default for it, is for it to try and pick up DHCP for its address.  while you CAN do this.. i personally beleive that its not the best idea.
- You should be able to choose to SET the the IP address.  You will want to set this, say the nest available address.. 192.168.0.2

- You will then plug its WAN port into the CGN3.

- you can then set up your wireless as you want on the router..  Making sure to choose as far away address as you can from the CGN3 if you did.. 11, etc.

 

Setting up other routers as APs
- Not all routers have an AP mode but can pretty much be set up the same

- log into them, turn of EVERYTHING else.. DHCP, firewall, everything but your wireless settings.
- You will want to set this device, like above, to 192.168.0.2 or similar.

- Big difference with this is, instead of the WAN port, you will just plug it into one of the LAN ports.

 


My current setup.. i have the CG3 in the basement.. with wireless, off on it.
A cable running up to the main floor, where i have my CGN3 set in AP mode.



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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,254

Re: Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

1 - The advantage of using an N66U or any other HIGHER END router.. you gain quite a number of advantages.

a) Routing.  In general, the processor on the router, is higher quality, and generally will do routing, switching, etc alot faster.

b) More options.  The CGN3 has limited options in terms of port forwarding, other options like QoS and restrictions.. which a better router like the N66U does.

c) Range.  Units like that have external antennas, which have a larger range, etc.

d) there is some latency issue it seems when in router mode.. not insanely high, but there non the less.

 

2 - See above

 

(that being said.. i myself have the CGN3 in gateway mode and use an N66U as an AP only.. but the CGN3 does what i want it to do at the time with not needing the more advanced features)

 

3 - Its up to you on DNS.  The rogers dns seems to go down a few times a year.  On general devices i use the rogers DNS.. but on my PC's i set the DNS on the DEVICE (which over rides the one the router trys to assign).  As for security.. really the only 'security' thing about changing DNS.. is if you use a service like a US DNS proxy.. it make it appear when you are accessing a site or somehing else.. that you are comming from somewhere else.  Somoeone trying to randomly break into things, could still go IP by IP and still try to access you that way, etc.

 

4 - Not sure.. i have been using the firewall on the CGN3 with no real issue/intrusions that i have ever noticed.

 

5 - I can provide info on doing AP mode AFTER this reply.

 

6 - SEE?  no.  They 'technically' have access to your settings, can can then CHANGE your internal network settings, if they REALLY wanted to.. but actually connect to your network, etc? NO, not that i am aware of.

 

7 - No there is not any port management in that way on the CGN3.  There is not that even on the N66U that i am aware of.. You really have to get into HIGHER END even more than the N66U to get to that point..  Some custom firmwares on some routers.. or corporate type managed switches.

 

8 - Yup, you can have as many access points as you want.. You could have 10 if you really wanted 🙂  There are some setting you would want to do to make sure of no overlap, interfearance, etc. 
(will go into this with my responce on AP setting a little later, when i post it)



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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 18

Re: Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

Looking forward towards Gdkitty's post on how to properly set up an AP with the CGN3! 

Smiley Very Happy

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I'm an Advisor
Posts: 931

Re: Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

One


@s1lva166 wrote:

Looking forward towards Gdkitty's post on how to properly set up an AP with the CGN3! 

Smiley Very Happy


One of the fantastic things about the Asus routers is that their software actually has an 'access point' mode that automates everything.

 

My view on how to set it up: plug a computer wired into one of the 4 LAN ports on the Asus device. Plug nothing into the WAN port. Go into the admin interface (192.168.1.1 or 0.1, I forget). It will notice the absence of a WAN connection and, among other options, give you access point. Pick that. The router will reboot itself; now plug any port (including the WAN one) into your existing network. Done!

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Posts: 931

Re: Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.


@Gdkitty wrote:

1 - The advantage of using an N66U or any other HIGHER END router.. you gain quite a number of advantages.

a) Routing.  In general, the processor on the router, is higher quality, and generally will do routing, switching, etc alot faster.

b) More options.  The CGN3 has limited options in terms of port forwarding, other options like QoS and restrictions.. which a better router like the N66U does.

c) Range.  Units like that have external antennas, which have a larger range, etc.

d) there is some latency issue it seems when in router mode.. not insanely high, but there non the less.

 


I would add one more: software quality. There are tons of consumer-grade NAT routers that have garbage, moody, unreliable software. The higher-end routers, at least the Asuses, actually have Linux-based software that is feature-filled and RELIABLE.

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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,254

Re: Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

Weither this is PROPER or not..  But i know it works 🙂

First steps - Prep your CGN3.
- Log into your CGN3.

- Note what your IP range is for it.  192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1, etc.
- Go into the BASIC tab

- You will see the DHCP start and end values.  make sure this is set at something above.. if you dont plan on having many static devices, doesnt have to be to high.  Could be 192.168.0.10.  This will make it so it would never try to assign .2 , etc.

IF you are not using the CGN3 wireless at all
- Go to your wireless tab.

- Under both 2.4 and 5ghz.. you want to turn OFF wps.. and then disable the wireless.
IF you are using the CGN3 wireless

- You will still want to turn off the WPS in my opinion

- You will want to set your wireless channels as far away on each AP in general.. so you would want to put it say on channel 1 for 2.4, etc.
(Now, this is assuming that you dont have any other interfearance... a site survey may be in order.. if Datalink pops buy, usually has a good writeup on how to do it 🙂

 

 

Setting up your AP (the ASUS ones)
- You will want to connect to you Asus router seperately (not pluged into the CGN3 yet)

- Log into it.
- You will want to go into Administration

- Then on the first page shown, choose AP mode. (this auto turns off all NAT, firewall, dhcp, etc for it)

(this part i am a little rusty on, been a while since i set mine)
- It should run you through a wizard.  I beleive the default for it, is for it to try and pick up DHCP for its address.  while you CAN do this.. i personally beleive that its not the best idea.
- You should be able to choose to SET the the IP address.  You will want to set this, say the nest available address.. 192.168.0.2

- You will then plug its WAN port into the CGN3.

- you can then set up your wireless as you want on the router..  Making sure to choose as far away address as you can from the CGN3 if you did.. 11, etc.

 

Setting up other routers as APs
- Not all routers have an AP mode but can pretty much be set up the same

- log into them, turn of EVERYTHING else.. DHCP, firewall, everything but your wireless settings.
- You will want to set this device, like above, to 192.168.0.2 or similar.

- Big difference with this is, instead of the WAN port, you will just plug it into one of the LAN ports.

 


My current setup.. i have the CG3 in the basement.. with wireless, off on it.
A cable running up to the main floor, where i have my CGN3 set in AP mode.



View solution in original post

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I'm a Senior Contributor
Posts: 215

Re: Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

An example of a feature on almost any good router but completely absent from the CGN3 is the ability to set static IP routes. It was one of those things that got me into bridged mode. I have a Roku 3 and they have put Google DNS's hardwired into Netflix so that no matter what kind of account (US or Canadian) you have in Netflix, the Canadian feed prevailed since it goes to the Google DNS servers and recognizes geographic origin. By using a static routing function you can very easily circumvent the Google DNS IPs.

 

My AC68U (and almost any other good router) did it easily. The CGN just does not have that kind of capability.

 

You have to realize that by using Gateways, Rogers has taken the simplify approach. That means plug and play for the less experienced but also takes away a LOT of flexibility for those with greater experience and need/desire for more flexibility.

 

That said, frankly, I used the CGN3 for a long time in Gateway mode (i.e. before the Netflix complication) and had no trouble at all - it worked just fine for all my needs. In other words, it all depends on whether your needs outstrip its ability to deliver. 

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Posts: 7,018

Re: Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

Hi GigaMechaKitty

To add to Gdkitty's and VivianM's comments, running the CGN3 in bridge mode with the N66U in router mode is usually the best way to go, however, given your requirements for multiple floors, running the CGN3 in Gateway mode with the N66U in Access mode shouldn't be an issue.  I ran a similar configuration, CGN3 Gateway with a D-Link router as an access point for a very long time without any issue.

To run a site survey you would need to load a program like inSSIDer on a dual band laptop in order to see what networks are running on both 2.4 and 5Ghz bands.  Here is a link to the last freebie version of inSSIDer, which monitors both bands. It does not do 802.11ac which is becoming common these days, so my advice to anyone who intends to use this program in the future is to spend the $20 U.S. to purchase the latest version.  

http://www.techspot.com/downloads/5936-inssider.html

http://www.inssider.com/inssider4/

The Network display will show, in list form and graphically, what networks your laptop wifi card can detect.  By looking at the graphical display you can easily tell where the other networks are located, in terms of channels in use, and determine if any of them overlap your channel and also if there are any clear channels that you might be able to use.  You can set that clear channel as the default channel in your router or in the CGN3.  The drawback to the hard set channel is the fact that the vast majority of routers run on Auto, for their channel selection, so, what might be clear now, could be occupied at some point down the road.  For the basement, I suspect that it will be fairly easy to determine clear channels as the house and earth surrounding the basement will shield that area from external wifi signals.  The upstairs router will be more difficult as it will be more exposed to external wifi signals.  As you walk around the house with inSSIDer running you will see how much of a difference there is, from basement to upstairs.  It usually takes a couple of minutes for the signal levels to settle out on the display, so if you are moving around checking out the levels, wait until you're satisfied that the levels and networks that you see are stable.  If you click on my name, which takes you to the public pages for forum members, and look at my images, you can see a couple of examples of the inSSIDer display.

Do you already have in-wall ethernet cabling running upstairs?  If you don't know, inside the structured wiring cabinet downstairs, where the current telephone and rogers cable comes into the house, you might or should also see a group of ethernet cables sitting in the cabinet as well.  They may or may not have connectors on them.  The other way to check is to look behind the wallplate, where you have a cable or telephone jack located.  If structured wiring is present you will see 2 RG-6 cables for satellite or cable, one Cat 5e for data and one Cat 3 (possily Cat 5e) for telephone.  If the cables are already terminated and keystones installed in the wallplates, connecting the CGN3 downstairs to the N66U upstairs will be easy.

To limit the bandwidth, as Gkitty indicated, that usually requires a higher end firewall or router, or third party firmware loaded on the router.  But, there is a way to do this fairly easily.  Normally higher speed is what everyone wants, but occasionally people look to limit the bandwidth.  Simply put, install a crippled ethernet cable that limits the bandwith to 100 Mb/s, or use a switch to do the same.  The D-Link 10/100 GO-SW-5E 5-Port easy desktop switch is an example which only has 100 mb/s capability:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_1045_355&item_id=062559

On sale for $10, so thats a pretty solution.  If you plug this into the CGN3 and then plug everything else that you want to limit, into the switch, the most that the switch can draw from the CGN3 is 100 Mb/s. In theory that leaves another 150 Mb/s capability at the CGN3, but because TCP/IP is a transmit and acknowledge system, someone who is downloading at the maximum 100 Mb/s through the switch is taking up a portion of the upload capability with the acknowledgement messages.  Is that enough to throttle any upload, and therefore the downloads from anything plugged into the CGN3 directly?  Good question.  There will be some effect, but possibly not enough to be noticeable on a device connected to the CGN3.  If there are any network gurus reading thru this, please chime in.   

 

Hopefully, with all of the comments contained in the thread so far, you will have enough to figure everything out.  Let us know if you have any more questions.



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I've Been Here Awhile
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Re: Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

Thank You all for prompt replies. Heart The above information helped me setup my home network today. GdKitty and DataLink I gotta say you guys well beyond call of duty to help people here. You guys have my respect.

I have whole house hardwired, but mobile devices need Wifi thus my need to have a good AP. I have a setup now similar to GdKitty. CGN3 as gateway with wireless turned off and N66U as AP.

In order to implement the traffic restrictions I am gonna buy a SG 300 switch (Do anyone have experience with this? Good reviews on amazon.com but not much on internet.)

@DataLink - Using 10/100 switch is a fine idea until I get my SG 300. Thanx for that, never thought about it myself. OR I may buy a cheap 10/100 router(Do you have any suggestions?) to use it as AP to cover the whole house and use N66U as router.

I have changed the DNS to OpenDNS instead of default Rogers.

For setting up N66U as AP, along with directions GdKitty posted, following are some things that newbies might find helpful:
- Default CGN3 IP is 192.168.0.1
- DHCP IP allocation range is: 192.168.0.10 to 192.168.0.200
- Put your N66U in AP mode using GdKitty's instructions.
- Choose manual in IP configuration when it goes through AP setup wizard.
- Don't change anything except the IP (if you didnt change it earlier , default should be 192.168.1.1)
- Change the value of IP sych that it does not fall in DHCP IP allocation range (i.e. your new AP IP should be 192.168.0.X {X = 2 - 9}. There are other possibilities but if you are new to all this, said address should work just fine.)
- Complete the setup, N66U will log you off.
- This is the time to connect a LAN cable from CGN3 to WAN port of N66U.
- Wait a minute or so and try to log in into N66U using the new ip you assigned(the one in 192.168.0.X{X = 2-9}).
- Play with your AP settings.

I did use inSSIDer and have no interference in Wifi channels.

Again, Thanx to all of you who pitched in help me. Smiley Happy Now onward with setting LAN connection using a good managed switch. Any recommendations except Cisco SG 300 will be appreciated.

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Re: Questions related to CGN3 and network infrastructure.

While i dont have experience with THOSE switches..
I manage the MUCh higher end grade cisco switches at work, (the like 5k each ones)


I would ASSUME they have much a similar interface.

 

WHere you can set up most things, on a port by port basis.