cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

Hi,

My family's used Roger's since early 1970's. I have had ongoing issues since 2013. (Mostly cable). I was getting Promos which was the only reason I stayed (although Bell wasn't improving - home phone.)

I have (had) VIP package with several theme packs but promos ran out last week.

I was "sold" the "Premier" which I was told had everything I had, but was cheaper. I compared yesterday and 300+ channels VS. 170+ channels; MOST of the ones I (and others) watch were excluded. I also was told that there could be NO PROMOS with the VIP anymore. Can they do that?

It's MUCH cheaper for Rogers, a bit for me, but since I and others here USE TV 24 hours a day, we wanted the extra channels but cannot afford the having no VIP promos.

 

 

Anyone have any advice? Try Bell?

Rogers used to be for the customer but within last year has become rude, to get techs is DAYS waiting, most are not good one destructive and incompetent. Anyone else notice this?

Overall service has been horrible for all 3 I have: home phone, internet and cable.

 

 

 

***Edited Labels***

38 REPLIES 38

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@YtanyaY : The grandfathered VIP packages were the best deals available and many of us negotiate to maintain them. They had the most channels for the lowest price.  The packages are discussed in the following thread:  Check out recent posts:  There are other similar threads discussing the various packages, doing comparisons, the difficulty in comparing, etc.

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/TV/Cable-TV-Package-Channel-Comparison-Spreadsheet/td-p/215566/...

 

Now that you've switched, you probably won't be able to switch back.  Unfortunately, the time to research is before calling and/or switching.  Here's a thread on negotiating packages, etc:  My response was to people who were in a situation very similar to yours.

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Account-Support/Discounts-expiring/m-p/421572#M21831

 

 



Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

Hi and thank you

I will read the links but I have NOT switched yet. Yesterday a manager told me they could not give me any discounts anymore. (There were no more promos that were "COMPATIBLE" with VIP.)

Without the promos it would be far too expensive.

I have to rush but will will read the links.

THANKS!

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

OLDYELLR
I'm a Senior Advisor

Hi @YtanyaY As @57 already explained, the old VIP package was by far a better deal than any of the new packages currently offered.  I've had the base VIP since 2009 and was never enticed to switch.  Once it was discontinued there was no way switch back. Over the years I've tried to get a listing from Rogers of channels I receive, with no luck. I'll take your word for it that there are 300+ unique channels. Recently I compiled a spreadsheet of all the channels and duplicates I get with VIP, but I have yet to analyze how many unique ones there are.  Most certainly there are a lot more than I currently watch.  That is where perhaps one of the new packages may be better value, but I need to do my homework. My bill for VIP is now double from when I started, $96.03. When It breaks the $100 barrier I'll have to consider if one of the new packages plus extras would be cheaper, or whether I'll get rid of Cable altogether and go with the many other options.


Rogers PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

aelaan
I Plan to Stick Around

Have to jump in here as I had exactly the same issue, I think it is a scam.  My monthly TV bill has gone up by 30 dollars and... I still do not have all the channels I used to have.  Oh, and once they lure you into the "Premier" package deal there is no going back.  I am so glad we are not on Rogers with our mobile!!  I have actually spoken with Bell and they are very aggressively recruiting consumers such as us.  Be aware though that the pricing on Bell is much higher after 1 year and you have no loyalty.  I have been with Rogers since 1997 since I came to Canada.  Their internet speeds have been good, but the TV package is right now being exposed and destroyed.  Premier, my bum that is what I say.  Maybe we need to stick our heads together and get some media on it, I am certain CTV, a Bell Media company, would love to promote it....

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

Without a doubt the VIP packages were the best around, and included lots of value added features, and choice of channels.

 

Once they moved to being required to have packages, and the starter channel, and pick and pay and theme paks,

I supsupect the whole package mix and priciing by both companies used algorithms to analyze the actual data, the areas we live in, not hard to figure out the demographics of the population in the area, and ultimately they created packages that are set up to maximize the profits on the channel mix that we use the most - marketing (more channels - while many of them are not the ones that most people watch and buy), so no matter how you mix and match it, the majority will be priced to a certain level depending upon your channel preferences - In our case, most of the channels we enjoy the most are in a theme pak, and one add on and TMNHBO, the rest we could get on a starter with the same add-ons, but since they don't give ou the discounts you get on the upper packages an bundling, you lose value added stuff like bonus channels - they really aren't bonus, they are part of the price mix and will show up on your bill as a line item - but it sounds good - hey I get a bonus channel, but you have no choice, you pay whether you take it or not, so of course you will pick something - hopefully is something you would choose to wathc.

 

Digital cable and two way communication on our boxes provided them the access to all our use data - time of day, stations, how many connections in our home, etc, use by box, what do we record, and a powerful way to analyze and create mixes that relfect what we watch, but setting them up to maximize our costs and encourage us to higher level packages, now with less that we got before for more costs (sure the costs went up over the years, but it was cost increases, for same services - not cost incrases and less services.)

 

If you are moving off old package, take some time with your box aand build a spreadsheet of exactly what you feel you need to wath, what you sort of wathc, and what you don't wathc, and see if you can create and or cancellation department - with change department, not a front end CSR and tell them what you want to watch, and have them do the work to figure out how you can get what you want for the lowest price possible - be prepared to give up with some things, unless you want to pay for themes and add on channels.

 

And then look at bundles if it is worth it for you,   My approach now is to view the whole negotation as starting competely a new relationsihp - I start at the bottom and see what I can move up to and the costs for each mix.  Takes a number of calls and about an hour with someone who really knows their stuff.  Get a quote written down by them, then since they won't send quotes, go to chat anohter day and have them type out all the details of the quote line by  line, and have your bill handy and compare what your are geting and cost of before and after.

 

To ease your identification of channels you watch go into settings and hide all channels you don't watch, set those you absolutley really don't want to give up as favourites, and leave the others as optional.

 

the first pass through is a long process, but once it is done, you can then use the IPG to add to the favourites, or remove from favourites to optional.

 

Get them to confirm each channel you are getting in each package -

 

be patient, get a coffee, and water, take a break if your need, and for me, I sit on speaker phone, and I type into the prepared spreadsheet  - sorted by channel or by network, depending upon what works best.

 

Get them to go through the items in the packages - some people have found that some of the promotion packages they may have for existing customers, don't match the channel mix on the web site which is new customers.

 

Good luck - it is a corporation, know your needs, shop around .  Even if you miss the end date, you will just go to the new retail price for your existing package on a month to month term, so you may pay a bit extra while you figure it out.

 

And don't say yes to anything until you fully understand it and then agree with your yes - by the way, courts at moment precident view what is said in the phone call as a verbal contract and if the confirmation differs, the verbal contract takes precedent, but who want to fight to a court.  Try and get them to nail it down and me, get it in writing through the chat and keep your own notes, and verifiy with them your notes, and then verify their notes - you read tyours, they agree they match - thye read their notes, and you see if they match, before you say yes to anything.

 

Because you realy can't go back, but if an error is made, they will sometimes compensate with a freebie service or two, a short term discount, but putting it back, is very hard - can be done through OOP if you reach that level and changed by back end dtabase staff who have access to all existing plans in the system, activation dates, etc.

 

Be an educated consumer.  Be polite, patient as best you can, but the reality is that they want the VIP out of the system, and the standard 3 packages and the starter package, with some variability beyond the presented mixes.

 

Good luck.

 

Bruce

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

luna
I Plan to Stick Around

@YtanyaY.  I read your post and I understand your frustration and upset about all the changes to the services you have had for a long time. I remember having a big old clunker of a TV that you just plugged into the wall and you actually had to get up and manually change the channel. I also recall my bill (with Rogers) being something like $15.00 and had quite a variety of shows to watch, but that was  40 years ago!

I agree with others about educating yourself as a consumer on products, services and changes etc. 

Last year I left Rogers for Bell because my grandfathered plans, prices etc., where no more and I was annoyed to say the least.

I lasted with Bell 6 weeks and a few days over. It was a nightmare! My bill was never the same from day to day, customer service was beyond horrible, it was non-existent . After I 'fired' Bell I called Rogers one late evening and was welcomed back. In retrospect, I found out what bad service really is and to get out from under all that negativity, I changed my attitude.

Before I called Rogers I researched what was being offered, read different opinions in the community forum and also to a look at the CRTC's website.

What I do differently now is I research beforehand, I write down bits and pieces of info that I might want to talk about with Rogers and I choose a time and day to make that call when I can concentrate, and am not cranky from lack of food or sleep.

When I  call Rogers  I am polite, ask the CSR by their name how they are. I try to be clear about my reason(s) for calling without getting into dead end negative conversation. 

Change is good even if I end up with less channels. I  would rather have a good professional means of communication and negation with Rogers than not. 

I don't even remember most of what I used to watch during the VIP days. 

If I feel the communications with the CSR is not great then I will still thank them for their time and just call back later on  and ask to go over it all again with the hopes that something can be worked out that's more to what I was looking for.

I value being with Rogers and do my best to be a good customer and have had some amazing conversations with a lot of CSRs, resulting in finding a good happy medium of media to watch and within my budget.

One last thing, several years ago I did have some major issues with my service which was not resolvable with the usual people you'd talk with. I wrote to the Office of the President and with their help and intervention got things sorted out. (Every department has different authorities.) 

I am grateful for what I have!

 

' There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.'
Leonard Cohen

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

Hi and thank you for replying.

I did not cancel VIP. I just called them now (after 1 HOUR) on hold to formally cancel the move to premier and unfortunately the modem replacement was also cancelled.

The premier is TRULY evil. There is ONE "bonus" for the entire 170 stations. (Hollywood suite – each of its 5 channels is a bonus so suite is a misnomer. (I.E it would be 5 bonuses for 1 suite)

I still have my VIP with no promos because they are INCOMPATIBLE(?).

Getting a lot of calls from Bell (I even blocked them) and many ads – fwiw one has cable offering 500+ channels. Have not checked cost. (And they have MANY hidden costs)

I don’t know for certain but I thought it was 300+ channels.

Rogers IMO has deteriorated from their CSR to technical clumsiness (IMO). The majority have little knowledge, and long delays B4 getting a technician to “visit”...

Thanks again for reply!

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor

I kept the VIP but lost my modem upgrade appointment.

Bell is AGGRESSIVE They call non-stop (I blocked them) & R sending ads - 1 of which says cable up to 500+ channels. They have LOTS of hidden costs and I did try them several years ago but despite the improved inter phase, there were excessive problems with the remotes, knowing what channel one was on, and other people here couldn't figure it out either… (Plus no support and hidden costs … )

"Maybe we need to stick our heads together and get some media on it, I am certain CTV, a Bell Media company, would love to promote it.... "

Not sure I understand but if I do, I agree...

Thanks

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

PastryCrisps
I've Been Here Awhile

 Hello,

 

My parents are long time Rogers cable subscribers, so much so that they still use analogue with a digital adapter (the DTA-50, if I remember right). They're currently paying $70 (pre-HST) for 52 linear channels (including the useless stuff) through grandfathered packages that no longer exist. Since that isn't a very good deal, they're finally open to upgrading to digital services, but have a few questions:

 

- This is probably obvious, but how flexible is Rogers in terms of what you can subscribe to? Could they buy the Popular or Premier packs and then supplement that with a Theme Bundle or two and a few la carte channels? My guess is yes, but confirmation would be good.

 

- Given my parents are still using the digital adapter, would I be able to install a Nextbox 3 without the need of a tech to come over?  They live in a Toronto neighborhood, so I imagine that even if the equipment inside isn't up-to-date that the infrastructure should be there. I'd prefer to install it for them, since that's $50 going elsewhere. They're not looking to add service to anything other than the den they currently have cable in.

 

- Is there any shot at them getting a loyalty perk to cover the cost of a box rental? My parents have been subscribers for 20 years and also have mobile with them. $18/month for a Nextbox 3 is a bit much. They'd be fine with a SD box, but they'd like a PVR. If that's extremely doubtful, I'd likely grab them a Nextbox 3 off of Kijiji. I know I could probably do the same with an old SD PVR, but I have firsthand experience on how slow those things are.

 

- For AnyPlaceTV, how many channels offer live streaming? Is it only the big networks (CTV, CBC, City, Global, etc.) or are a lot of the specialties also available? You don't have to be a Rogers Internet subscriber to access that, right?

 

Thanks.

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

You can get a package and then supplement, however, the packages and additional channels add up fast.

 

A tech is not necessary to add a 9865 (NB3), however, the charge can often be waived if you get the right CSR. That way the tech can check signal, make sure things are working, etc.  It may also depend if you purchase the 9865 or not. Be aware that Rogers will be switching to "Ignite TV" (IPTV) over the coming couple of years...

 

There is no such thing as a loyalty perk.  However, you can often negotiate a discount if you have several services with Rogers.  This depends on your negotiating skills:

 

See:  http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Account-Support/Discounts-expiring/m-p/421572#M21831

 

Anyplace has lots of channels to stream, however, be aware that you cannot "cast" or connect to a TV. You can only watch Anyplace on the device in question - phone, tablet, etc.  Here are the Anyplace FAQs.

 

https://www.rogers.com/customer/support/article/anyplace-tv-overview



Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

PastryCrisps
I've Been Here Awhile

@57 wrote:

 A tech is not necessary to add a 9865 (NB3), however, the charge can often be waived if you get the right CSR. That way the tech can check signal, make sure things are working, etc.  It may also depend if you purchase the 9865 or not. Be aware that Rogers will be switching to "Ignite TV" (IPTV) over the coming couple of years...

Thanks for the response. I take the variance in whether or not I can do a self install leans on me owning the equipment outright? Rogers renting something out = wanting to make sure it's done right vs. allowing the user to go crazy since they own the equipment.

 

I've got another question:

 

- Say a channel you're subscribed to adds an alternate feed (west coast, HD, 4K, etc.) or VOD service. Would you have to do anything extra to access that, or does Rogers just add it to the relevant subscribers automatically? I'm sure a lot of that would have to do with the channel operator, but I noticed while looking at the a la carte section of the Rogers website that there's no price differentiation between the SD version of a channel and the HD one, so I'd guess yes?

 

Be aware that Rogers will be switching to "Ignite TV" (IPTV) over the coming couple of years...

I'm aware that Rogers is slowly rolling out Ignite/X1. The problem with that is a lack of home internet at my parent's. Back when I lived there, we initially had Rogers cable internet, but later cut that to a Bell DSL reseller to save money. My parents aren't heavy internet users, so once the house emptied out they cut service all together and now just use their mobile data plan.

 

I can't imagine my parents are alone in not having a wired internet connection, especially among the older segment of the population, so you've got to think Rogers will keep the traditional service running for a while.

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

meRB
I've Been Around

I too have enjoyed my VIP+ and Movies and Nature/Adventure,  package and now they will no longer allow promo's to be applied. The only reason I can determine from Roger's is, they don't make as much $ compared to Premier. So, they're forcing a package change or no promo.

I tried switching, and immediately found that many, 20+ of the networks that I was watching had disappeared. The cost to add the networks to Premier would cost significantly more than VIP+ and Movies without promo. It's all about making you buy more.

I insisted that they reinstate my package, VIP+  and Movies and Nature/Adventure, it was within 12 hours of the change. When I check out the TV I find channels missing. Followed up with another call to Rogers, they tell me the Nature Package I had is now considered extra.

Before change: it was included, total cost without HST or Credits: $144.70, let's add tax,  $158.99.

Reinstated they want me to pay more for VIP+ and Movies, and want to charge me $169.52 and it does not include the Nature package that was already included in the price.

They refuse to discus the facts on the bill and I had to insist on speaking with a manager. 20 minutes later I'm still on hold.

This is a big mess, Roger's agents don't get the math on the bill and keep referring to the new plan, I'm so tired of having to argue with Rogers

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

Hello @meRB,

 

Welcome to the Community & thank you for your post 🙂.

 

I appreciate the time you took to describe your experience. While VIP + Movies was indeed a really good package, it has been grandfathered for some time now. Any available bundle offers we have would only be compatible with the in market TV packages. Additionally, the Nature and Adventure Theme Pack was always an add on, however it may have been included as part of the Specialty Pack included with your core cable package. I would have a more accurate response if I had access to your account.

 

I hope my colleague in the management team was able to resolve your billing and viewing concerns.

 

Feel free to reach out to us if you have any further questions or concerns. 

 

 

 

 

RogersZia

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

SB28
I Plan to Stick Around

Hi everyone.

My promos are ending soon, and I have the Digital VIP package.  Since a few of you have said, they will no longer offer promos on this package, I compared the VIP vs Premier.  As far as I can tell, excluding non-English channels, the difference between the two is 1) losing the Cdn timeshifting channels, which can be added for an extra $3/mo. 2) Leafs network, an extra $4/mo. or bonus channel. 3) A couple of US SD channels, which can be added back in with the Cdn timeshifting above channels, plus a bunch of extra US network timeshifting for $6/mo. 4) Silver Screen which can be added back as the bonus channel or $4/mo.

 

Did anybody out there lose any other channels by switching to Premier from VIP, in order to get a promo?

 

Paying 61.98 for VIP, vs regular price of 84.98 (excl taxes).  Premier would end up 99.99 + 3.00 (for Cdn timeshifting), before getting any promos. Don't really care about losing the US stations or Silver Screen.

 

What promos are generally available for Premier? 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

luna
I Plan to Stick Around

Hi SB28

What I've come to realize is that Rogers changes the names of different packages which also means some changes in channels.  Rogers, from my experience has just become more flexible with more promotions that are not necessarily published on their website. 

Every month there are different promos and from what several CSRs have told me is to call  every month, if you want to check it out.

You're not locked in in the way it used to be some years back. 

I don't watch that much TV nor have interest in more than a few different channels, but I can and often do call more often to find out what the promos for that month might be within my price range and interest.

A lot of people complain about poor communication between them and Rogers and I feel that Rogers has been finding better ways to improve that.

I like the idea of calling more often and if the customer is polite, friendly and willing to 'work' with the CSR, then it becomes easier for Rogers to accommodate you, of course within reason.

Recently I found an old VIP plastic card from Rogers and I don't even remember why Rogers was issuing them.

Now, the name of the package is away to identify the kind of programming one is interested in and I think that becomes a good starting point for negotiations.

I would have to look at my bill to tell you what the name of my package is. When I call Rogers to discuss what's new they will let me know what I have and then hopefully what I can have that might better suit me, even if they call the offer by a different name. 

Change is good and so is Rogers. I've lost channels which after a short while I don't even remember what they were. But I have also gained some new channels  that I may not have considered before.

Promos end and give way to new promos!

Don't rely on the website info only, call! If your CSR can't find you a promo that you like, just call back the next month. It also helps to let Rogers know what you do like to watch and what you want to spend rather than talking about what they don't offer anymore.

There are very few companies that impress me with efforts to keep on improving the customer experience and I have had amazing results from very good conversations with some delightful CSRs.

 

Rogers is a great company to be with. Bell on the other hand is pushy and fickle.

 

Luna

' There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.'
Leonard Cohen

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

garytheduke
I've Been Here Awhile

I noticed the difference between VIP and Premier to be essentially what you have mentioned. Premier lacks Leafs channel, Silver Screen and Canadian timeshifting channels.

 

VIP with tax will cost me $96 after my promo ends vs $116 for Premier with timeshifting added.  So I would need at least a $20 a month discount on Premier just to get to VIP’s regular price.  Not sure Rogers would offer more. But even if they did I would then be locked into Premier. That would mean I have to call in at their mercy for future discounts that may be declined. 

 

I am thinking to just stay on VIP at regular price saving $20 a month over Premier without the yearly dance of calling in for promos.  My Rogers MasterCard pays 1.75% rewards that usually covers a good portion of my current cable bill. 

 

I use an internet reseller for $35 a month (75/10 unlimited) that uses the same Rogers cable line. I only wish I could get a cable TV reseller that offers reasonable packages. The IPTV $15 a month services out there are just too unreliable. 

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

OLDYELLR
I'm a Senior Advisor

@garythedukeI would most certainly recommend staying with VIP at $96/month. That's what I have and the new Rogers cable offerings are more money for fewer channels.  The only thing lacking in VIP is that it only includes Canadian timeshift channels. I don't know what the timeshift add-on for Premier includes.


Rogers PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

Laurie8
I've Been Around

Hey Rogers....why can you not just publish the channel listing for each package so we can make informed decisions?

 

i have been with Rogers for 25 years and am beginning to feel like the cash cow .......... no discounts if you don't change plans but no way to see what the plans contain.

 

Very frustrating

 

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@Laurie8  Unfortunately, from past experience, this question has been asked a lot.

 

Rogers, once they provide new package models do not provide you with your past package details.

 

You can get them, just get on the phone or in a chat and ask them to go through the details of all channels you currently have and pricing and discounts, and then ask them to compare it to the new package - take your time, write it all down, make them repeat or slow down if necessary.

 

On new contracts now, fortunately, the CRTC TV broadcasting code has forced them to indicate your channels on your current contract when you change it and the package name and extras, plus discounts and credits, timelines and costs are on the bill in detail.

 

It is a lot of work on our part - some people may have their own versions they can send to you, but the packages are all over the map depending upon time negotiated, whether a CSR found a plan floating around, and if you didn't keep your bills, and update your channel list, you won't know what changed.

 

The other approach I began using, is I turn on my TV and make a spreadsheet and then read each channel to them and tell them what I have and one by one, they tell me what extra is in the new package and what is missing, and costs to keep it comparable, also considering any package discounts.

 

When getting a quote, the code now requires them to tell you exactly what is changing, what you are losing and the costs implications.  If they don't tell you you have grounds to cancel the new contract, but getting the old one back can be a challenge because it is gone for access by them in most cases, and the best you often can do is a credit to reflect price differences or credit on cost of getting a preferred channel you lost.  This can be discussed rhgough various contacts with rogers, but is certainly time consuming, confusing, high risk of errors of miscommunication, and plus you are in the middle of what is inherently a marketing and sales pitch to change, without a full considertation of your preffered packages and costs.  Try reducing services sometime and see how diffficult that can be.

 

So in summary, know what you have right now - I did one day, just turn on my TV with all channels showing, and listed off the channels I had and said, what is a comparable package now and cost - then I started working with how we could change things up to best meet my budget and desires.  In most cases, I have cut services, but got a more favourable mix of my preferred channels.

 

Good luck in reviewing your future media desires and prices you are willing to pay.

 

Take care, let us know how it goes, we all learn together here on the forum.

 

Bruce

Re: PREMIER vs. VIP, Customer treatment OR ma BELL?

Margre512
I've Been Here Awhile

What I do differently now is I research beforehand, I write down bits and pieces of info that I might want to talk about with Rogers and I choose a time and day to make that call when I can concentrate, and am not cranky from lack of food or sleep.

When I  call Rogers  I am polite, ask the CSR by their name how they are. I try to be clear about my reason(s) for calling without getting into dead end negative conversation. 

Change is good even if I end up with less channels. I  would rather have a good professional means of communication and negation with Rogers than not. 

I don't even remember most of what I used to watch during the VIP days.