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NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

RogersMargaret
Community Manager (Retired)
Community Manager (Retired)

Hi Community,

 

A Navigatr enhancement will be deployed in October/November 2016.  Once you have received the updated Navigatr software and would like to ask a question and/or share your findings/learnings, please do so in THIS THREAD.  

 

We'll continue to gather your feedback and circulate it with the appropriate parties within the company.  As a reminder, changes to the latest version of Navigatr can be found here.  

 

As always, the Community Guidelines and Terms of Use apply.

 

Thanks very much for keeping the community a pleasant place to be!

 

~RogersMargaret

468 REPLIES 468

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

park
I'm an Advisor

@park wrote:

Will the rollout fix the scheduled/recorded problem ?

Is when  a program starts recording, it is no longer scheduled., and should be tagged as recorded.  

 

Got the new version.  Thanks.

Impressive, finally did it right.

 

Only took 15 months.

 

 

 

 

 


 

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

park
I'm an Advisor

@57 wrote:

@abc101 wrote:
In my post, I also said this issue was fixed with the update I received on Oct 19 2016. When watching a recorded program, pressing the Info button will display the program info along with 3 options of which "CC" is the first/default. Select it and "CC" is turned on.

Sorry, I reread your post 5 and still don't read it that way, but now that you've explained it in more detail, it's good to hear that fewer clicks will be required with the new firmware.

 The red c button is not used when watching any program ( live or recording, or recorded).   Why did they not use it to do a one button toggle ?

Hope we do not have to wait another 15 months.

 

 

 

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

robindp
I'm an Advisor

Hello all,

I woke up this morning, turned on my NextBox 3 (Cisco 9865) and was greeted with the new interface.

 

I took some screenshots for the community to demonstrate the "new features" welcome screens, and to capture the revised look "Scheduled Recordings" screens (and list view!).

 

Here we go:

 

This is what I saw upon powering up the cable box.  It states that new features have been added, and prompts user to press "OK/Select" to see what's new:

 

Welcome Message

 

I pressed "OK/Select"...and got this screen advertising the Navigatr list view:

 

Your New PVR

 

The next screen advertises the ability to select and delete multiple recorded programs at once:

 

Your New PVR 2

 

Pressed "EXIT", then "LIST".

 

Here is the "My Recordings" screen - showing the default Grid view.  Notice that "NEW" is now displayed in yellow type (instead of the word "NEW" inside a white box):

 

4.png

 

Pressing the "B" button on the remote switches to List view:

 

Recordings - List View

 

Pressing the "LIST" button on the remote switches between the "Recorded" and "Scheduled Recordings" screens.  No more multiple button presses!

 

My impressions:

- "Recorded" Screen: The yellow "NEW" or "x NEW" is very nice - draws attention to new content in a way the previous typeface/logo did not.

 

- "Recorded" Screen: The fifth column of art was removed and replaced with a "sidebar".  This allows user to press "right arrow" on remote multiple times (sorry, no wrap-around) to select "Recorded (items only)", "Scheduled (items only)" or "Manage PVR Space (Select Multiple Programs to Delete)".  To me, this is a fair trade-off - lose a column of art and gain functionality.

 

- "Recorded" Screen, list view: Still no channel number (or channel name) displayed.  Rogers: The data is there, please consider adding this to the next minor update! Using our example above, I suggest the following format:

 

Secrets and Lies                                        NEW

TV-14 | CC | 581 | CTVV     RECORDED ON...

Program Description
Watch                                            More | Delete

 

- Response time, NextBox 3 (Cisco 9865): This box seems to be running a touch faster than last night, pre-update.  This might be due to the reset after the reboot, however.

 

- Response time, NextBox 2 HD PVR (Cisco 8642HD): This box seems to be running slower than last night, pre-update.  Example: Takes about 4 seconds to display the "Recorded" screen after pressing "LIST".  This might be due to the box not being "settled" after the update, and the high number of recorded items on the main PVR (184 items).

 

What do you guys think of the new update?

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@robindp

 

Thanks for your presentation - very well described and good suggestions.

 

I am in agreement with all of your comments as stated, I like the layout and changes - it will take a bit of a learning curve to turn my head back into the old model of seing a tile view versus list views, and the move back to list, list toggle of scheduled and recorded views.

 

The suggestion of skipping the explanation and go right to viewing would leave a lot of people very confused though, but at least you had a choice. We get our info here anyway, but others may not know where to get supported through the change.  But definitely excellent to have provided explanations of the changes.

 

I like the list view of the scheduled items with the full detail of the future show without the tile view - don't mind this at all, I am indifferent about tiles or lists with detail and the B button to switch.

 

As stated by robindp, the absence of channel detail is still a major issue to providing complete ease of management of our PVR's. In particular, the manage PVR feature, the detail is critical to being able to choose what to keep or delete when you would have to go to the recordings view to see detail, and I might as well do the deletion right there most of the time, since I am already there.

 

I like the fact that I can toggle from recorded to future recordings now by toggling with list button as before.  This means I will unlikely ever go to the commands on the right of the views.  

 

Few other changes I like - the cc that says the current state cc disabled, or cc enabled, and you toggle with the ok button, and bringing the accessibilities of described video and cc to the forefront of choices.

 

The sorting of subscribed seems to still not be saved after a reboot, but I will see after the next reboot.

 

And finally the language used for sort a-z, or sort by date, is opposite to cc which shows the state it currently in, where you have to look at the fact that the sort when it says sort a-z, is currently in date sort - learning curve, and a current state with be more intuitive, but I will learn it.  

 

So as it stands, I can live with the changes.  I had learned to live with it as it was before, and I think the learning curve for the changes will be small - I have already figured it out, now it is just muscle and brain memory.

 

I notice in the diagnostics screens (hold esc - arrow down twice - press 2), that the energy saver function has not been reimplemented, and that is ok, it didn't work on first pass.

 

Otherwise, thank you for listening and responding to our requests. I would never expect you to be able to meet everyone's needs and most of the issues I mentioned, I can go through the learning curve, as I did with the last version, and I will live with it.

 

But definitely I can live with it as currently rolled out - hopefully we will have stability in the product as we go forward, which seems to have been resolved from earliest versions.

 

 

I do hope that the Rogers teams including their product purchasing, development and testing teams have learned how to avoid another 15 month mess like this one has been.  I not sure I would stick it through if we had this again.

 

Thanks for all the hard work, Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@robindp wrote:

 

- "Recorded" Screen: The fifth column of art was removed and replaced with a "sidebar".  This allows user to press "right arrow" on remote multiple times (sorry, no wrap-around) to select "Recorded (items only)", "Scheduled (items only)" or "Manage PVR Space (Select Multiple Programs to Delete)".  To me, this is a fair trade-off - lose a column of art and gain functionality.

 

What do you guys think of the new update?


Thank you for your post.  You lose Two columns or Four tiles.  You get 8 instead of 12. This is a step in the wrong direction, especially if wraparound is not included. The scheduled/recorded numbers and "manage" could be at the top of the screen for the tile view - no need for a sidebar.  I will now need to press the down arrow (or page-) even more to get to "see" what's further down the "list/tiles".

 

In my opinion, since the "list" doesn't contain the programme information we wanted, (date, channel, etc) I consider this a step in the wrong direction and proof that Rogers wasn't really listening to us.

 

The only advantage I see is that you can now see the number of recordings and scheduled recordings separately, but I will likely continue to use AnyPlace for checking my scheduled recordings since the appropriate information is shown there.



Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

robindp
I'm an Advisor

Hello @57,

- On my SDTV (where I took the screenshots, 8642HD), I remember there being five columns.  You have more experience in optimizing TV and HT setups than I do, and I could be wrong - please correct me if I am.

 

- On an HDTV or UHD TV, you are probably correct.  I preferred the old RTN list view, and gritted my teeth and scrolled down every time the grid view appeared.  The list view is much closer to what we had with RTN, and the design is "in line" with the Navigatr interface.  I agree that channel number and name should be displayed; this would make managing recorded content much easier.  The metadata is there and embedded in the recording, it should be exposed to the user at every opportunity.

 

I must state that navigating the list view on my NextBox 2 HD PVR is faster and more efficient than the grid view - I suspect loading & displaying art for content on other STBs was slowing things down.  For this reason, my preferred view on that box is the list view.

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@57  I agree with your analysis of pros and cons.

 

Interestingly, the old view of Tiles with scheduled items with next date at the bottom was more beneficial as we saw 10 scheduled items with dates for a quick view of recordings, where as now we see four in list with dates,

 

I too will continue to use Anyplace TV for many tasks.

 

I think the problem is that they were "listening", but their persistence in not running changes by real live users meant that obvioulsy they really did't understand what we were asking for, and it was only in presentation of prototypes or mockups that we could provide pros and cons of each.  Only "real users" can do this - these are called user feedback on development prototypes, and beta testing before production rollout, which they persist in their insistence to not do so.

 

I don't get it, the cost and time of development is far too costly, to not include a full beta test.  None of this should have taken 15 months, or even since Dec/January when it seems that the current providers became closely involved in cleaning up the first mess.

 

Just my opinion, that is a reflection of my own experience view of best practice product development and rollout, but I would like to see the things you and @robindp stated considered for future changes, or in future designs of new products.

 

Unfortunately, there seems to be a lack of understanding of proven project management in IT within the Roger's structure - I know people would say they are not an IT company, but they can hire people who know how to do it, because their product can only consumed in a quality way  based on their design and implementation of IT.

 

Life goes on.

 

Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

It seems that a couple of people "remember" there being 5 colums or 10 tiles per screen.  I can clearly see 6 colums and 12 tiles per screen since I don't yet have the new firmware.  I doubt there would even be a difference on an SDTV since it should show the same information, only letterboxed.

 

You can see the 12 tiles in the following post by @Gdkitty

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/PVR_settop_boxes_remotes/message...



Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

DrMike
I'm a Trusted Contributor

@BS wrote:

 

I think the problem is that they were "listening", but their persistence in not running changes by real live users meant that obvioulsy they really did't understand what we were asking for, and it was only in presentation of prototypes or mockups that we could provide pros and cons of each.  Only "real users" can do this - these are called user feedback on development prototypes, and beta testing before production rollout, which they persist in their insistence to not do so.

 

 


I don't think they are listening at all. If they had been listening they would have dumped this piece of junk a year ago and re-done it from scratch and built it the way it ought to have been done in the first place. I think they are making the best of a bad situation by indulging us in "cosmetic" changes at best. 

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

Tmothy12
I'm a Regular

Got the update today. I want the ability to select recordings to delete from any list or folder. The tiles feel a bit cramped but I guess I'll have to get used to it. I'll keep using it and see if I find anything else to add.

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

robindp
I'm an Advisor

Hello @57,

I stand corrected regarding # of columns when using HDTV - @Gdkitty's guide FTW! 🙂

 

My SDTVs display the menu and "recorded" screens in a full screen aspect ratio (not letterboxed - see my screenshots from 8642HD on SDTV).

 

I accept that I may be wrong and that there were 5 columns being displayed on the SDTVs.  If that is correct - then this is a regression.  It reduces the number of tiles displayed at once, which is a very bad thing for those who prefer the grid view.

 

Perhaps an option under settings to show 'more' or 'less' tiles?

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

JonBoy49
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Good summmary of the changes.

Frankly I'm completely underwhelemed though. How could it possibly have taken 15 months to make such trivial changes? (And software is my business so I can say "trivial" with a degree of confidence).

They have fixed few things - the biggest improvement being the switch to yellow for the text - that must have taken months!

No matter - I'm on the way out the door. This past 15+ months of abuse from Rogers pushed me over the edge and my new equipement is being installed tomorrow. Once I have watched all the recorded programs on the NB3 it will be going home to mama and then it is goodbye Rogers Cable.

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@DrMike  When I said I think they are listening, I don't disagree with your interpretation either, but even if they were listening, they couldn't fully understand what was being asked for since, I know anything I have asked for, I have never been asked to clarify what I was saying, or any opportunity to respond to anything they planned.  All we heard was we are listening, whatever that really meant.

 

You could be quite right that they got a bad product in the first place, and they have basically been playing around cosmetically to try to address some of our concerns, but I do have to acknowledge they have addressed many of the performance issues (remember lost recordings, constant freezing, the failed attempt at power saving, the problems with CC to meet legal requirements under OADA and as demanded by CRTC, the failings of On Demand for a stretch there - supposedly not the box, but at the On Demand server level, but as consumers, we don't really care what the source is, and I still have the occasional run on recording, and freezes, but nothing like before).

 

So they did deal with some of the bad programming and did in their cosmetic changes try to address some of our requests, but the reality is that for some of us it has been almost 9 months of living with the trial and error fixes of the original mess, and for some like myself it has been 15 months, and 5 months from last July putting up with the original mess.  So there will be varying levels of satisfication/disatisfication and interpretation of how it all rolled out, but for me I can definitely say that this mess was totally unacceptable and I stayed only because of loyalty which has been stretched to its limit, and I will be unlikely to accept another mess like this again.  I have better things to do with my life than being one of a large group of people telling Rogers what doesn't work and guiding them to try to make it useable and functional.

 

But I don't disagree at all with your interpretation, there is definitely truth in it, and since we were never involved in the development and fixing process by requesting our feedback until we finally get it, in a way, they may have listened, but they have never confirmed whether they understood what we were asking for, and often rolled out further versions that did not deal with critical issues well, let alone functionality.

 

Unfortunately, there are not many alternatives to choose from, but just maybe there will be more competition in the future, and once CCTC takes over the final complaint step for cable as they do for wireless, we the customers may have more influence than we have through this one.

 

As I said, life goes on.

 

I have figured out the changes, and I am going through the learning curve, and as already said, we definitely have a reduced view in terms of tiles, or rows of lists to manage in any view, which is a back track in the name of improving functionality, which still remains questionable.

 

Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

park
I'm an Advisor

@robindp

 

What impresses me most is how you manage to have 184 recordings while only using 5 percent of the nb3s recording space !  What's the secret ?

 

 

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@57 whether 12 or 10 tiles, mine is definitely 4, and the only way I can easily work with it now is to keep the highlight in the left column, and page down or arrow down, but you can also go up, those having less things to see.

 

As for list view, can't remember how many there were before, but definitely more than we have now, and with far less detail, so it makes it less functional because your information about the show is limited, and the amount of shows we can see listed is less too.

 

This could all be a limitation of the software itself and in attempting to give us what we asked for, they were limited by the product programming and interface.  

 

So I am in agreement with all that is said so far.

 

I thank Rogers for what they have tried to do, but another case of what we asked for may have produced something completely different than we thought we would get and in some ways less functional that the last iteration.

 

I really don't have anything else to say. Not satisfied with what we got, not happy with how long this has been, and remain unimpressed with Rogers and its supporting companies to develop and modify quality products for Cable in a timely way.

 

I leave it for others to comment

 

Have a good day, Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

robindp
I'm an Advisor

@park wrote:

@robindp

 

What impresses me most is how you manage to have 184 recordings while only using 5 percent of the nb3s recording space !  What's the secret ?


Magic! Smiley Very Happy

 

But seriously - I captured the screenshots using my basement PVR (NextBox 2). Most of the 184 recordings are on the living room PVR (NextBox 3). 

 

The recording space used shows space on the current PVR only - the NextBox 3 has 80.1% used. 

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@park

 

That amazing figure of number of recordings is similiar to what we see too - it is because it counts a future recording as a "recording", so take our recordings of Late Night with Steven Cobert and other nightly shows we record daily, each adds 5 to the count of recordings, although nothing has been recorded yet.

 

But you can now see on the new version how many of those recordings are recorded and how many are future, so you in my case, I see 56 recordings and 64 future recordings, where it used to show 120 recordings, 29% space used (I have a few full length movies in the recordings.

 

But I agree, it has always been kind of humourous, as well as confusing.

 

And I agree, 184 recordings with only 5 percent - how does one achieve that?

 

Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@robindp Your clarification about whole home tv's impact on PVR storage is helpful.  I don't have it, so I don't know that world.  It fills in the gaps for those who do have it, and I can't comment on it.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

molly222
I Plan to Stick Around

I will never understand why Rogers DOESN'T TEST these "upgrades" with real users.  I have been searching for my "one off" scheduled future recordings.  Not anywhere in the tiles.  Look in the list format...nope, not there.  Check the guide to make sure I did schedule it...Yup.  So where is it?  I finally found them under list format, scheduled.  But there is no tile for it, and it does not appear under the "full" listing.  So in order to avoid having to hunt for these "one off" future recordings, I think I'll just schedule them as a series.  So I go to the show on my scheduled list and THERE IS NO OPTION TO RECORD IT AS A SERIES.  Really Rogers?  So now I have to go back to the guide to program it as a series.

 

I am thankful that I did not lose my recordings.  I am happy my PVR did not blow up with the update.  The yellow "new" font is pretty too.  I also like the fewer steps for CC...although why you don't just program the C button for that is anyones guess.

 

Overall impression...no more channel info AT ALL...at least before we had the network name...you also took away the program length for series programs (and yes, this can change from week to week depending on the program), less info on the screen overall.  Two steps forward, three steps back.

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

Hey Community,

 

Starting today, we’re rolling out the new Navigatr software updates to some NextBox cable customers in communities north, west, and east of Toronto – including Newmarket, Oshawa, Ajax, Brampton, Mississauga, and Milton.

 

As we’ve worked towards this rollout, we’ve highlighted some of the new functionality you can look forward to, including:

    • The choice to see recorded programs displayed in (Poster Art) or list-view (text-only)
    • Multiple programs can be deleted at once
    • A updated and refreshed look to Rogers on Demand and Get More TV

 

The update will be going out to the rest of the customers in communities across our Ontario cable footprint this week and next. We hope you enjoy your refreshed Navigatr experience!

 

RogersRoland

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@JonBoy49  All the best to you in your new service model.  You have persisted as so many of us have in trying to move forward towards a quality product - we are not there in my own opinion, and I agree, 15 months to make trivial changes (and I too have done programming and purchased programming services, and I am in agreement).

 

You are to be complimented and thanked by all of us on the forum and those of us who have did everything within our power to guide Rogers in making a high quality product, which unfortunately, from a usability point of view, they didn't achieve.

 

I personally thank you and wish you the best.  We all have our limits.

 

For me personally, we are moving sometime in the next year, outside of the GTA, and depending upon where we move, Rogers may not even be available, but I will seriously consider options, even if they are.

 

There will be those who are quite comfortable with what has been given to them, for them, I am pleased for you, but I do feel a bit sorry for those who got this post January builds, have learned how to use the box and have never really known what we were all asking for, and will be left wondering, what just happened to them.

 

Bruce

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