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NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

RogersMargaret
Community Manager (Retired)
Community Manager (Retired)

Hi Community,

 

A Navigatr enhancement will be deployed in October/November 2016.  Once you have received the updated Navigatr software and would like to ask a question and/or share your findings/learnings, please do so in THIS THREAD.  

 

We'll continue to gather your feedback and circulate it with the appropriate parties within the company.  As a reminder, changes to the latest version of Navigatr can be found here.  

 

As always, the Community Guidelines and Terms of Use apply.

 

Thanks very much for keeping the community a pleasant place to be!

 

~RogersMargaret

468 REPLIES 468

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

molly222
I Plan to Stick Around

Same thing here, have Art for about 70% of shows.  Other shows I have it one week, and not the next for the same show, same channel.  What is really strange is that I record all my shows on my NB3...some shows that do have Art will have different Art on my NB2 for the exact same show that is source recorded on the NB3 (have whole home).  How wierd is that?

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

lawny
I Plan to Stick Around

I am new here and hope that what I have to convey has merit for concern!

My impression has become of Rogers is negating any responsibilty for good

help and support. They circumvent and hedge around the issues presented to

them and feel that sorry's and apologies are enough! I know that there are many more out there who feel intimidated speaking out and many more just gave up! I am not , and have not despite incessantly aggravating and frustrating me!

Why is it Rogers policy to give only partial information? Limited information?

Why will they not discuss the explorer software updates issues with me?

I am tiring of conflicting responses!

Each time I confront them and catch them confabulating, they turn to stone and hang up on you or disconnect you (intentionally)

 

So, why all the updates? I am aware of a predetermined time, but I have experienced at other times more frequently! Especially of late!

Since the new NAVIGATR, I find it a mess and a hindrance compared to last year!

What puzzles me is that the differences in length of updates change! from 3 minutes to half hour to 2 hours and even 42 plus hours!

Last year we very rarely needed to turn on the box for the year!

The new and improved NAVIGATR has proven the need to turn on the box many, many more times per "month" (not year)!

What puzzles me and confuses me is that I was resigned for 2:00 AM daily updates, but , why are there days not updating? (1 day to 2 days and 3) !

If updates are rquired, I am perplexed!

That was my quest from Rogers to no avail (or resolve)

I am sorry if this was an improper post, I am new and willing direction!

 

lawny

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

User14
I'm a Trusted Contributor

@lawny wrote:

I am new here and hope that what I have to convey has merit for concern!

My impression has become of Rogers is negating any responsibilty for good

help and support. They circumvent and hedge around the issues presented to

them and feel that sorry's and apologies are enough! I know that there are many more out there who feel intimidated speaking out and many more just gave up! I am not , and have not despite incessantly aggravating and frustrating me!

Why is it Rogers policy to give only partial information? Limited information?

Why will they not discuss the explorer software updates issues with me?

I am tiring of conflicting responses!

Each time I confront them and catch them confabulating, they turn to stone and hang up on you or disconnect you (intentionally)

 

So, why all the updates? I am aware of a predetermined time, but I have experienced at other times more frequently! Especially of late!

Since the new NAVIGATR, I find it a mess and a hindrance compared to last year!

What puzzles me is that the differences in length of updates change! from 3 minutes to half hour to 2 hours and even 42 plus hours!

Last year we very rarely needed to turn on the box for the year!

The new and improved NAVIGATR has proven the need to turn on the box many, many more times per "month" (not year)!

What puzzles me and confuses me is that I was resigned for 2:00 AM daily updates, but , why are there days not updating? (1 day to 2 days and 3) !

If updates are rquired, I am perplexed!

That was my quest from Rogers to no avail (or resolve)

I am sorry if this was an improper post, I am new and willing direction!

 

lawny


Lawny,

 

I emphathize. I have no proof, but I believe it is Rogers policy not to answer anyone on the community forum. I believe it is a cost savings issue because they would need an army to deal with all the questions and queries. The only people who will help you here are Rogers customers like yourself.  I have tried sending a Personal Message (PM) to some of the Rogers moderators and that has evoked a response in some cases. 

 

My "beta tester" better-half has been able to tell when the PVR box has been updated because she has to turn on the filter for our subscribed channels in the morning after an update. That way she know that the update caused the problem so she pulls the plug and lets it start again. She isn't happy with Rogers either.

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

Crotty
I've Been Here Awhile

I have a set up for a program on my PVR that never aired. It doesn't show under 'Recorded' or 'Scheduled', there is no show at all. How do I delete the slot that is still there with the name of the program that never aired please? Thanks for any help offered

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@User14 and @lawny

 

I would have to agree with your impression about communications about the whole Navigtr incident of the last year and a half - yes for those who came in late - year and a half.

 

I think why we get stone walled on many questions, or fixing errors, or miscommunications, where we are held responsible and stuck with what they did even if we feel we were miscommunicated to.

 

I think it is coming from a high level and the communication that we receive and actions permitted by various levels are controlled and limited either by policy, or by limitations on access to information and what they can and can't do from their terminal.

 

It leads to a lot of time, frustration for Roger's staff (I don't envy the reps for some of what they have to deal with and their limitations).

 

But to clarify - there are two types of updates - one is the nightly update of the channel grid which then updates our scheduled recordings, that sometimes needs a reboot, and sometimes doesn't.  If a reboot occurred, you will lose the scheduled filter as you describe.

 

The other is an actual update to the build of the software components that are available from two places.

 

1. from settings trouble shooting system information and about options where you will see the most current builds - mine is 6.2.0.0139, UI version 19222/28392, Classic Version 62.00.21 and VOD 62.00.20

 

And in about is vantage version 6.2.0.0139 and Espial 6.5.9-1.9.5

 

 

The other place is to press the esc button until the front screen power light flashes, then down arrow twice, and press 2 - you will get the diagnostics screens - go to Manufacturer Diagnosis, then to component info.

 

All the current versions will be there - and the dates - current dates are Oct 8 16, and July 20, 16.

 

You can also check signal strengths in these same screens under Cocisis status, down and up stream.

 

But back to your point, it has generally been impossible to get anyone along the way to say what was going on, and as with everything else, we will here nothing but the occasional rumour until they finally decide to release it, if they even do.

 

The most major communication we received at one time was around April when a member of the forum who had bought shares and went to the annual general meeting and asked his questions during the Q@A and it all came out into the open with shareholders present and tech media companies interviewing him, and then a meeting.  A major announcement showed up on the earlier thread within days of that - coiincidence - you decide.

 

But you do have a valid point. One that has been made by many - the other place we learn things is by searching financial statements for Cisco, Espial, and Rogers too.  You can read between the lines on the various things, and often know things that the lower level staff may not even know about.

 

But this is clearly a corporate model of communication to its customers, not the fault of those we interface with when we correspond.  And always remember that those like myself are just users like you, just have more time on our hands to go digging for information than the average customer.

 

Great concern.

 

Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@Crotty

 

If you're talking about Navigatr Zombie recordings. See the following post and perhaps posts that follow in the Navigatr thread:

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/PVR_settop_boxes_remotes/message...



Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

Crotty
I've Been Here Awhile

Thank you soo much, it was annoying me that I couldn't figure it out. Thanks.

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@lawny wrote:

The new and improved NAVIGATR has proven the need to turn on the box many, many more times per "month" (not year)!

What puzzles me and confuses me is that I was resigned for 2:00 AM daily updates, but , why are there days not updating? (1 day to 2 days and 3) !


Some, but not all people seem to be affected by 2AM reboots, etc.  (I've never encountered this issue and can go weeks or months without my NB3 rebooting.

 

In order to avoid 2AM issues, simply set a daily recording for that time - perhaps a Stingray music channel, like 726, or an SD channel which takes up little room on the HDD.  Delete the recording the next day.

 

Many of these issues can be caused by a poor signal in your home or in your neighbourhood. Call Rogers and have them check your signal strength and that of your neighbours to rule out a signal issue.



Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

I personally see 2 am updates every night because I don't sleep at night.  In almost every case it doesn't require a reboot.  It comes on screen with your tv show going black and no sound and a notice that updates are being downloaded, please patient and a phone number you can call.  It then changes the message to something else.

 

You will usually see DNLD on the blue front screen, then it will go through some numbers, but then just pop back to your tv - if you were recording, the download gets delayed - at least that is what I have seen and just happens at a later time, or it may even be the next day, but your guide may also be out of date.

 

I think we have all figured out our own interpretations of just what is happening with the box and it may very well be unique to each of us depending upon how we use it, or just random, or some magic roll of the dice.

 

You will know that a reboot is occurring because you will see boot come up on the blue screen, the message will stay in place - it can take considerable periods of time - I am not sure what they are downloading that requires the reboot because there has been no changes in builds since back early October - so don't ask me why sometimes it reboots and other times it doesn't - I don't have a clue and not much point in asking here, or directly to the company, I don't think they know either.

 

But definitely my recent experience has shown that if the downloads don't come down cleanly because of area issues, or bad signals, you have a chance that the downloads will not "take" fully, it will have to repeat the downloads to get it to you cleanly, and most often I have seen that reboots will occur randumly during the day when this has happened.  When signals have been clean, I am like @57.  I can go long periods with no reboots occuring, just the daily updates.

 

But these are all just guesses on my part and i certainly don't expect any answers, but I do know now that if there are problems, ask to have your signals checked, your neighbours checked, and have them check for area issues, in particular if it has been going on for a few days, as weak signals will kill the functionality of these boxes very quickly.  That is a bigger issue that Rogers has yet to fully nail down - why are they getting so many signal issues coming up - I have my own guesses - I think in their upgrade process, they are moving very fast to more functionality, 4k, in home app viewing and so forth, as long with trying to figure out how to get modems for Internet at G speed with no loss in latency (see the threads for more detail on that one if you are interested - just search Hitron Modem latency), while trying to provision their whole system to Gig across their full footprint, and also preparing to go to IPTV, while they were also trying to clean up issues on web site "My Rogers", last year for a part of the year, dropping E-Post, changing up marketing plans, losing Shomi, trying to implement Netflix both as a replacements, and a value added feature, web site issues with compatability with changing technologies and the list goes on.

 

They have had a real mess on their hands this year or so and we on the forums have done our best to stay on top of it, to get answers, and to apprise everyone what is going on, but without a doubt it has done a real number on trust of the company to get it right in a reasonable period of time (we all expect bugs with new technology, but this has beyond bareable, with little to know communication, except for the occasional compensation - 1 dollar movies that I know I never watched, and  over repetetive messages, of we are listening to ndyou and working hard to improve your viewing experience. To make things worse at times is that the people on this board at the higher levels are very competent in their skills and troubleshooting, and through investigataion, we would draw up action documents of what works, what doesn't work, what do people want changed and so for and as @57 of says, the "huh" sections.  Many have suggested that we on this board are now the official beta testers for new products and we provide the answers, finally see things done as we aske, but never hear anything much back. 

 

The model of beta testing the Hitron Models now being done is unique and hopefully shows a committment to include knowledgeable volunteers to aid in movement forward with development and successfull implementation.  The forum Moderators have certainly had discussion with the upper management that we are a group that could greatly assist the process.

 

So do keep asking questions, raising your concerns, and those of us that may have information will try to guide you and how to move forward, as long as we can keep it up.

 

Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

User14
I'm a Trusted Contributor

@BS wrote:

 

 

But definitely my recent experience has shown that if the downloads don't come down cleanly because of area issues, or bad signals, you have a chance that the downloads will not "take" fully, it will have to repeat the downloads to get it to you cleanly, and most often I have seen that reboots will occur randumly during the day when this has happened.  When signals have been clean, I am like @57.  I can go long periods with no reboots occuring, just the daily updates.

 

 

Bruce


@BS  Excellent answer.  My little "beta-tester" does her programming every morning so she seems to know when a daily or major update has been done. I mentioned before that when she sees all the channels and not the subscribed ones, she knows there was an major update. Another trick she uses to confirm the update has worked is she'll select a recording and try to play it. If there is no response from the remote play button, she knows that the download did not "take" fully. I use to do the reset but now she just pulls the plug on the PVR then lets it reboot.  I'd say this still happens once a month and she keeps complaining about it to me.  I should add that our download speed is 11.67 mbps. If it was faster, we might have to reboot more often.  These are all guesses on my part as well and I don't expect any answers from Rogers either.

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@User14  The one other thing that flags me that a download didn't take well, or there may be a memory leak, or other things happening inside, is if the response time from the remote (yes I have checked the batteries Smiley Frustrated before support asks me), then something is going wrong and a reboot usually fixes it.  If it continues day after day, or say once a week, I will call it in because it probably is something bigger.

 

And hey, good news, I think, I just learned today I am the proud owner of my box on the 2 year no payments on the box, 1 year pay for the box, and you own it for 1.00  I am glad my is still stable, I do have a one year warrenty, whatever that means.  So I guess, I can finally order that additional box I was thinking of, pay the same money for rental I am now saving, and have two tv's in the house.  Nah, I will just keep doing the same as before and pocket the money.  Every penny counts in my household.

 

I am the ongoing beta tester in my home - my wife just says, "what the "you know what" is going on now, or "so what did they do now", and I say, I don't know, let's reboot the box, and I may come here and say, anyone else experiencing this. I don't think I have done as many support calls in the last year and a half than in all the years I had cable and Internet.  I remember the days when I called in and said activate the existing line, maybe add a jack, you plug in the box that I bought from Sears as I didn't have channels that were encoder (anyone remember the decoding boxes and back when negative billing was banned), or our tv just handled the basic channel changing. And you never called in accept when a cable was broken due to the wind as they were all on poles, and the companies all hired their own staff.

 

And yes, I used to walk up hill all the way to school and all the way back again - truly because it was down hill from the house, to the bottom of the street and then back up the hill to the school.  And when I reflect back on it, I still generally watch all the same channels I did then, except for HBO and maybe one or two others.

 

I think that is what the customers were telling CRTC that we wanted - the ability to have basic channels, and the clean signal of cable and and a few channels at a fair price, and not have to have like @OLDYELLR said, or @Gdkitty, I have who knows how many channels on my VIP, and I probably watch 10% of them and now that I have a stable PVR, rarely touch on demand, so telling me how much I save and how many channels I get doesn't really tell me what I really want as a user.

 

Guess that is too much to ask for.  Smiley Wink

 

Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

User14
I'm a Trusted Contributor

@BS wrote:

 

 

 

I think that is what the customers were telling CRTC that we wanted - the ability to have basic channels, and the clean signal of cable and and a few channels at a fair price, and not have to have like @OLDYELLR said, or @Gdkitty, I have who knows how many channels on my VIP, and I probably watch 10% of them and now that I have a stable PVR, rarely touch on demand, so telling me how much I save and how many channels I get doesn't really tell me what I really want as a user.

 

Guess that is too much to ask for.  Smiley Wink

 

Bruce


@BS  It sounds to me like you are at the 5th stage of grief with Netbox Navigatr: 1. Denial; 2. Anger; 3. Bargaining; 4. Depression; 5. Acceptance. Smiley Wink    Too bad the client is not in the picture

 

 

 

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

Yes, I am at acceptance, but doesn't mean that I don't like it basically because the client isn't in the picture, and we the purchaser has to ultimately accept it or move on (to what I don't know).  Kind of like getting gas purchasers to boycot a company for a day to reduce prices of gas at the pumps.  Has never worked - first people don't follow through, and even if they did, they would have to stick at it until the company changed practices, and then you would have to go after the next, at which point the first goes back to what they were doing.

 

Can't win unless we all opt out, but as we see in the declining subscribers (real numbers of churn, reducers subscribers, and profits) for the Rogers in their financial statements, a large number are just opting out.  It would be great if each person who left would post here and say where they went and the pros and cons that led to their decision.

 

I can only dream.  but definitely, I am at the end of grief stages, but I still bargain once in a while - always worth a try.

 

Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

JonBoy49
I'm a Reliable Contributor

@BS wrote:

<snip> 

Can't win unless we all opt out, but as we see in the declining subscribers (real numbers of churn, reducers subscribers, and profits) for the Rogers in their financial statements, a large number are just opting out.  It would be great if each person who left would post here and say where they went and the pros and cons that led to their decision.

 

 

<snip>

You asked - so I will respond.  I went through the first four stages of grief but instead of reaching acceptance just got more and more annoyed with Roger' attitude and finally opted out.  I purchased a Tivo OTA PVR, installed an antenna, and upped my Rogers internet service (although in the end that actually reduced the cost).  I am watching more Netflix and other streaming services, my OTA Tivo is everything a PVR should be and everything the NB3 wasn't. For example many mainstream programs have commercial skip built in. When the commercial break starts a message appears on screen and a simple one-button push jumps straight to the start of the next section. Love it! Plus I have $100 more in my bank account each month. The few things I am currently missing ( mainly a couple of cable only channels) I will soon have back again courtesy of streaming them via an old PC that will be hooked into the setup.

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

Yes, @JonBoy49 I did ask, and definitely, one of the steps of acceptance is to say, I am not willing to work with this anymore and I do have a choice. Change is never easy, and stories like yours are very helpful for consumers of the services that Rogers and others offer and guiding us to accepting what we are living with and whether it is time to move on. That information, as well as the opportunity to complain and rant now and then, gets us all to a better place.

 

I love your solution, and it seems to work very well for you.  It is the direction I am leaning too, although I have been quite satisfied with Rogers' service to me as of late, and I am beginning to overcome my pain and suffering from the whole Navigtr mess of the last year and half.

 

My reality now is that Rogers and all the other companies are beginning to price their services out of my price range as my family learns that you can only do less with less money, but you don't have to live with anger and frustration, there are alternatives out there to choose from.

 

So I appreciate you doing as I asked and tell us what you did when you opted out.  I am sure there are many of us sitting on that same fence and the numbers support it across the industry throughout the world that the whole model of media provision is changing and that as many of us are living with less income (somebody once said I would have lots of money in retirement - didn't happen because I got sick along the way and spent my retirement money early out of necessity) .

 

So in a way, this current forum, although it has the occasional post about the box has become a place for us to consider what we got in the end, where things may be going and whether this is what we want to stay with, which as stated earlier, allows us to move to acceptance, so it is an important opportunity for all of us who have been through the Navigtr experience.

 

Do enjoy your new viewing experience, your statement of an extra 100.00, is a real incentive to me to take that final step that I have been standing on for a long time, and that is 1200.00 per year - 6000.00 in 5 years, and that is after tax money that we were spending on TV.  Keep us up to date as your experience changes and what works and doesn't work as you move along your path of receiving the best viewing experience.

 

But in order to keep us on task, which I am responsible for taking us here with my question, I do recall we may have some threads that address the whole question of alternatives.  Not that I am saying this is off task - it is a natural flow from the life with Navigtr.

 

I would possibly suggest that we may be able to close this thread as we have the others, and then new threads can start with new issues that may arise.

 

Thanks so much, Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

OLDYELLR
I'm a Senior Advisor

@BS wrote:
 

My reality now is that Rogers and all the other companies are beginning to price their services out of my price range as my family learns that you can only do less with less money, but you don't have to live with anger and frustration, there are alternatives out there to choose from.

 



The business model is to keep expanding, adding more customers and coaxing existing customers to switch to more expensive plans. That's what increases profits and payouts to shareholders. But they're ignoring existing customers who are satisfied with what they've got and don't need fancier but unreliable hardware and interfaces.  It's these customers they're losing out the back door and they tell others to stay away.


Rogers PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

Couldn't have said it better.  It is also this group who are generally the loyal customers who have been with them for decades in some cases, and I like you, just want my basic services, I don't need the new stuff, unless the old stuff has just become unsupportable due to obselence, but I still at the end of the day, just want simple solutions, that are designed for my own individual needs, as best as possible, at a fair price that hasn't been designed to discourage us from what we really want to more expensive solutions with many things we have no use for and never ever use. Just the view from a customer who just wants to watch TV on the stations I want, and have a reliable device to use that is intuitive, and simple solutions for my basic needs at a fair price.

 

The reality is that I am learning from looking around, that although I may have to give up a few channels I like in order to get my basic wants (not needs) met and to get the services that I value, not services that are suggested to add value when I don't want it.  But the profit model seems to be keeping them profitable, so I am left wondering if the model acutally factors groups like us in anymore.

 

Just an observation, and I think I have probably said too much on this already. Thanks for the opportunity to particpate in this question that really is important for a group of us, and to the forum for allowing us to be heard and hopefully Rogers will hear us and find a way to integrate us into their marketing and profit models.  At the end of the day, I know it is a business, but I can at least ask and suggest before I make choices to do differently.

 

As I do with all purchases in my life.

 

Have a good holiday season everyboy, enjoy your time and TV viewing, how ever you decide to do it, and I am actually going to be disappearing for a while until January, in order to spend quality time with family and actually setting my technology away and going for quality face to face time.  I will poke in and read the forum now and then (when I don't sleep, haha), and if I see something I can help with, I will put comments and suggestions forward, as I love to do.

 

Sincerely, Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

park
I'm an Advisor

After 3 major revisions and nearly a year and a half of all of us pointing out serious flaws,  suggesting changes, Rogers NEW PVR software works.

 

Its  a tad slower than the perfectly acceptable software it replaced,  and can't remember where you left off watching a recording, but it now hangs together and has incorporated many of our recommendations and a few it's designers came up with.

 

I guess Rogers wanted to put a new dress on a threatened mature business.

But it's too little and too late and frankly was poorly executed.

 

I bought a 55 inch 4k Internet enabled TV  last week and am blown away with the quality and vast depth of  content and ease of use. Now one can truly watch what you want, when you want. Moving on.....

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

Thanks for the update @park.  Haven't talked in a while with you.

 

I had the opportunity to see 4K compared to HD at a friends home - he was doing a comparison - he has access from a high end video store he works in to do these types of things.

 

With my visual accuity, when the screens were the same size, I really did not notice anything, but when compared to a larger 4K it was better looking - my home couldn't handle a 55 inch - too big for small living room - my 46 HD just fits nicely in the wall space between two windows.

 

Glad you are enjoying your new TV and like you, yes, we have a functional PVR now, after all that time, with most of our suggestions, and only a few bugs, but boy it doesn't handle the guide and on demand updates very well, if there is any loss in signal strength during the process - had to reboot again because nothing would load on On Demand, just got stuck there, and then froze - standard reboot, wait about 30 minutes - it must have been a large amount of changes - then it finally worked.  At least I now know what that issue is and how to deal with it.

Not much different than any other electronic device - they all sometimes just need a reboot and at worst, factory reset (just like my Windows OS).

 

Take care and have a good holiday.

 

Oh yeh, my daughter is starting a media content coordinator for a major provider (western based and she is working out of Toronto) - it is her job to make on-demand and scheduled content available and remove it once licenses run out - well she doesn't do it, she coordinates it - will look forward to learning more about that process as she gets into it.

 

Bruce

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

The apparent logic process of how a download and loading works

 

Tonight, at 2:00, the usual download of the updates to the catalogue occurred.

This one was a very fast one, about 45 seconds for me to get back to my TV watching, and no reboot required.

 

These are the observations.

 

I went to the guide and found that the schedule next Monday was now present (it is currently Tuesday morning), so basically, you get the update for 6 days later at 2 a.m. (in my case it is that time, almost always)

 

The shows were all there for the full Monday, including indicators of New showings.

 

I next went to the future recordings section of the List for the PVR - all future recordings for Sunday were there, but none of the Monday recordings were updated and current with the guide.  I will watch to see when this update process occurs.

 

I then went to On Demand, and immediately noticed that a number of the categories had no picture art.

I went into one of them, and it indicated "loading" prior to seeing any catelogue information.

 

I would appear that this updated catelogue information is not loaded until you request the catelogue by entering the category by clicking on the tile.

 

I escaped to go back to the overall view of all categories, and all picture art was now there, and when I went into each category or channel, there was a very brief quick loading process for all that I tried to enter.

 

When I went into an actual on demand channel from the channel station number rather than the on demand grid, there was a slightly slower loading occurred, but then was faster.

 

So it appears that the downloaded updates need to be downloaded to memory sectors either in memory or on the drive, and once loaded there, they are loaded to the video display for access and navigation each time you enter a section.

 

Now here is what I think can go wrong that creates problems.

 

1. I have had times when downloads have taken long period of time - this may depend upon how much updating is being pushed down, and possibly to how many boxes in the area. Note these are all just thoughts based upon my knowledge of how systems work, and the expreriences with my own box and reading other reports.

 

If it is a large download, patience is required, as it may just take time for the catelogues to load - some have suggested leaving On Demand alone for up to 30 minutes.

 

 

2. It would seem that in some cases, the box may be aware, probably through an integrity check on the download, that things didn't come down cleanly, and a reboot occurs - possibly to clean corruption in memory.

 

3. In some cases, the download will start over, anywhere within minutes to hours, and may be a result of the box or server being aware that an imcomplete download has occurred, so it repeats until it gets the full download.

 

4. In some cases, these downloads keep repeating over and over again, or it just freezes up.  A reboot sometimes helps when it freezes, allowing possibly for a clean download, but I suspect these situations occur when the download has failed due to signal strength, possibly issues at the time with the box, or cabling in the area, or upstream back to the servers.  These upstream ones, often occur as area problems, while if it is your box, or your cabling to your home or in your home, it will only show at your home.  Ask when you call techs to take a look at the neighbourhood.

 

5. I have noticed that if loading is taking a long time, and I get impatient and try other on demand stations, and get the same long loading issue, eventually, the box will completely freeze, and usually a reboot will fix the problem, and sometimes I will notice another download occur.

 

6. And finally, the issue of non-recordings - this I have narrowed down, to shifts in the schedule at the last moment from your regular schedule due to changes in programming at the broadcast level.  The only way I have found to avoid this is to check your days recordings each day in advance, and adjust, or you can also set to record at any time, any channel, any day, but you will often have lots of clean up to do, but you won't miss parts or all of your show.

At least now that we can multi select for deletion, it is easier to clean up, and Anyplace TV is also beneficial for double checking, and cleaning up too.

 

My general observation, is that in many ways, this is nothing different than we have to deal with when OS, like Windows does it's monthly updates, and occassional urgent updates.  The amount of time it takes to do the update differs depending upon the amount of code and information being changed, and may also required multiple reboots, and sometimes, none.

 

The advantage of the design with Windows, is that you can defer the loading and update process to a convienent time.  With the settop boxes, we seem to have no choice when it will happen, and we may get frustrated if we lose some of a recording, or have to wait to get back to our viewing - as you will notice by the time of day I often post, it is the middle of the night that I watch a lot of TV.

 

It has been suggested that you may be able to delay the update process by setting recordings for those times - I have noticed that seems to be the case most of the time.  You could record a long showing, say like the shopping channel and defer the update.  Not sure if this is always reliable, but what is when it comes to anything in life.

 

Just my observations of possible explanations to the concerns that people have raised about frequent downloads, and updates and reboots.

 

It appears that in general, reboots will not be necessary, except in the case of a software update to the box, or possibly firmware updates, and typically should happen automatically, but in some cases, you may find you have to do it.

 

The daily guide updates, and the subsequent loading to the PVR, guide, and On Demand updates should not need reboots, unless possibly it didn't come down properly, or maybe corruption of memory occurred, or didn't clear.  I have learned that this is one, we just need to be patient, but if it is taking a very long time, a reboot is probably required, and possibly another download will occur as well at that time, or unexpectedly later in the day.

 

There is no question in my mind, that there are many things going on with an update, as is true with any modern technology.  And with the complexity, and reliance on clean signals and complete downloads and updating with 100% integrity of the data required, there is a greater risk for issues.

 

This is the benefits of IPTV, as with anything on the Internet and high speed access, there is less chance of corrupted data, as it will just be resent, but is still dependent upon clean signals, and no corruption during the update process on your device - that is why it always says, do not interupt the process.  Failures are basically an interuption in the process, either by us, a power failure, or somewhere in between the device and the servers.

 

This will explanation will not fully relieve the frustration that people have with the frequent downloads, and reboots, but it may help to relieve the frustration, and know when to reboot on your own, or get tech support to take a deeper look.

 

In general, I would have to say that we now have a fairly reliable and stable device, and hopefully, these boxes are well prepared to take on the future changes to IPTV, which they are certainly designed for.  

 

But for now, happy viewing.

 

If someone wants to simplify this explanation into simple troubleshooting points, feel free.  My brain is done for now. I just really want to sleep.

 

Bruce

 

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

Small update - the first thing in terms of future recordings that populated was the little red dot or dots for single or series recordings, but the list of future recordings did not reflect these changes yet, so that data had not been loaded through the whole device.

 

When I checked in the afternoon, everything was populated as expected, my Anyplace TV was all current (I didn't look to see how this product changes up as the data moves to it, and the connected data from the PVR moves to the software on my computer).  Myabe for curiousity some other day.

 

So for me, it becomes clear that there are many key points where the download can fail, the loading across the various modules can fail, and if the box gets stuck in a process it will slow down and eventually only a reboot will pull it out of the issue, and maybe the reboot alone will solve the issue, or maybe th downloads may have to come.  If this continues over a long period of the day, I personally bring tech support into the picture, to make sure the box communicates fully, signal strengths, is there any area issues, or other ideas from their end.

 

But in general, I have found that unless you are dealing with signal issues or area outages, or possible back at the server ends or inbetween, or your box has become so corrupt there is no saving it and needs to be swapped out, then the reboot will solve the key failure points of loading everything through the device modules and will probably be solved quickly with no download.  In other cases, a download may have to repushed, and the box will often do that on its own it must have some integrity features built in, as sometimes it does do it on its own.  And you need to be patient - if is says loading, that can take a while and my experience is that can be up to 30 minutes, but definitely don't go from one persistent loading message on a station or on demand, and then escape out and try another - do this enough times and I can assure you will probably end up with a frozen box.

 

It is definitely a complex beast, very depend upon clean downloads, and clean distrubtion and running of routines between the box, and I suspect if we start trying to do things to soon, we risk running into future problems.

 

But this is the nature of complex devices - we have highspeed Internet in here, whole home communication, PVRs, schedules, channel and settings selections, daily updates, software updates, and all these things have to work together well.  No wonder the whole implementation was a disaster from day one - it involved too many fingers and companies in the game and probably communicated hopes and expectations of the development that proved not to work as designed - that is to be expected, and I don't excuse the company for not planning for failure or disaster in major changes.  It happens, I know it has to me, but I always planned how I could roll back, but I don't think they were able to probably due to contract obligations and changing availability of support from companies.

 

Ahh the saga of Rogers' cable, all the way back to Scientific America when the model moved from the original models of analogue stations, that all core stations could be tuned on your TV, with a descrambler for purchased channels, or pay per view.  Pretty simple technology back then and well established and reliable.

 

And we are not finished with changes, but there is a very well established of stable IPTV out there, all over the world, so hopefully Rogers takes advantage of it.

 

For now I understand basically what this box is doing, and where things can go wrong, how to troubleshoot from my end, and how to guide the tech support based upon what they know and I know.

 

It has been a long time, and I thank all the people here on the board that got us here.  It has been a long, frustrating at times, but ultimately productive process.

 

Bruce

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