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New Nextbox Navigator

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

My wife was just moving through the new navigator and has the following questions, concerns.

 

The first screens for the guide are fine, but the fonts are a bit small, even on a 46 inch TV. We are all getting old, let's not forget us.

 

In the section for listing and managing recordings, the boxes cut off the full names of the shows, don't show dates, would rather have option of old list style with all details right in one spot.

 

When looking at multiple shows, you have to go to each listed show recorded, but there is no reference to the date until you highlight the show. Then this highlighted information on the show is even smaller and I have almost perfect vision after my cataract surgury, and I can barely read it. My wife can't read it at all. You do have the date on the top right that is in a bigger font, but the show information is almost unreadable and my 24 year old daughter who just came in also comment that it is almost unreadable.

 

Is there an option for increasing font size and changing to a list view rather than the boxes on the list of the recordings page. Don't like the box feature or the way the contents view at all for the above reasons. See little or benefit for this change.

 

Otherwise, I am kind of indifferent to the new layout, but do like some features.  I will probably turn off the banner across the bottom off in settings. I can get the same information from the guide.

 

Yes, there is a bit of getting used to change, but some of this change seems to be change for the sake of change. I do like that it takes less clicking to move around though, it just the display formats and font sizes that are creating legitimate problems for my family.

 

BS

 

***Edited Labels***

1,698 REPLIES 1,698

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

neilpalmer400
I'm a Trusted Contributor

Blondie11,

 

"You're really going to like the new Navigatr" could become a new "great lie",

maybe something to replace "the cheques in the mail" now that most payments are electronic and the government of Canada is phasing out cheques.

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

neilpalmer400
I'm a Trusted Contributor

With the lobotomy performed on 8642 boxes, all the bugs, totally incomprehensible user interface design, and lack of essential features to manage recordings and scheduled recordings Navigatr certainly doesn't allow you to "Get to what you want to watch sooner by searching and sorting your shows quickly with redesigned PVR menus." (Direct quote from the Navigatr FAQ web page).

 

Then I remembered the excuse (explanation) on the same page claiming this to be "As a result of human error", and I think I've put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5 (that's an in joke for those of you who now have to set your Power On Channel one higher than the one you really want to get the correct result).

 

Maybe the "explanation" we're going to hear (eventually, assuming Rogers deems thousands of angry paying customers to be worthy of an explanation for this debacle) is that someone accidentally rolled out a Beta test version of the new Navigatr (RTN 5.2) code instead of the proper tested (& debugged) version, because it's blatantly obvious that this code could not possibly have been tested by anyone who has used RTN code on a NextBox for more than 5 minutes.

Actually I should amend that theory.  Beta code isn't even this bad, must have been an Alpha code version that got pushed out.  One question now is who is going to fall on their sword for this?  Or if they don't go quietly, who is going to be thrown under the bus for this?

 

We, as paying customers, are certainly owed more than "human error" as an explanation for this disaster.

As soon as Rogers completes an internal investigation of what exactly caused this (though I suspect they already know) we deserve to know the truth.  And yes, we CAN handle the truth !

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

neilpalmer400
I'm a Trusted Contributor

Rogers needs to address a few issues regarding their Navigatr and the Navigatr FAQ web page.

These are answers we, as your paying customers, deserve to know.

 

First item:

 

I’ve gotten used to the previous software — can I stay with the older version? If not, will this new version be more difficult to navigate?

Unfortunately, you won’t be able to revert to your old guide,...

 

This implies that once you have updated to Navigatr (RTN 5.2.0.0230) there is no way to roll back the update to a version with a lower number (the previous RTN 5.1.1.0105).   This appears to be just a UI redesign, as those with the Rogers AnyPlace TV Home Edition App report they can still manage their PVRs through the app, so the basic underlying RTN code is still the same.

SO, can Rogers not take the previous 5.1.1.0205 code and repackage it as 5.2.0.0231, and roll that out to get the Nextboxes back to a working version of RTN ?

 

SIDE NOTE TO CUSTOMERS: iPad/iPhone users should have no problem with the Rogers AnyPlace TV app, but if you have Android 5/Lollipop the Anyplace TV Home Edition app will not work, despite the fact Lollipop has been out for months and months, and Rogers has known about this for months and months, it STILL will not work on Lollipop.  Previously customers with Android 5 (or anyone who found it simply too difficult to work on a small phone/tablet screen) could use the Web Based Anyplace TV available at rogers.com - BUT, Rogers rolled out the redesigned web site several weeks ago and dropped that function we previously had.  Note the similarity with rolling out Navigatr and dropping function we  previously had, or rolling something out before it's ready.

 

 

Second item:

 

Are there some regions in Ontario that will not receive these upgrades?

Customers in Compton, Ontario, and Kincardine, Ontario, will not receive these upgrades. Neither will customers of Mountain Cable or Source Cable, which are located in Hamilton.

 

Now if we AREN'T lucky enough to live in one of those towns, note that in the answer above (Unfortunately, you won’t be able to revert to your old guide,...) I highlighted the word revert.

For those customers who do not yet have the Navigatr/RTN 5.2 code, you need to provide the ability internally within Rogers to flag a box to NOT receive RTN 5.2

We know this is possible because for ages you could call Rogers and have them designate that your Nextbox should NOT be updated from SARA to RTN.  So find a way to make this work by allowing a box to be designated as NOT to be updated to RTN 5.2 if a customer calls in to "opt out" of the "upgrade".

In fact the federal government does not like it when big companies force customers to "opt out" of something, so the CORRECT way to do this is to ONLY roll out Navigatr to customers who specifically "opt in" to receive it.

 

 

Third item:

 

Will this upgrade cost anything?

No, this upgrade will not cost you anything....

 

It has (or will) cost many of your customers a LOT of lost time.

As we all know, time is money.

Therefore it has (or will) cost us something.

Therefore that statement is NOT true.

Please remove it.

 

 

And finally, Fourth item. 

This one is not on the Navigatr FAQ page but on the Community Forums Blog, entitled:

The New Navigatr Guide for your NextBox

 

At the bottom there is a rollout schedule for Navigatr:

 

When will I see NAVIGATR roll out to my NextBox?
 
Starting July 28th - Newmarket, Oshawa, Ajax, Brampton, Mississauga and Milton
 
Starting August 4th - Ottawa, Grand River area, London, St. Thomas, Woodstock, Strathroy and Tillsonburg
 
Starting August 6th - Toronto and Etobicoke
 
Starting August 11th - Scarborough, Pickering, Richmond Hill, Barrie, Borden, Orillia, Keswick, Orangeville, Caledon, Grand Valley, Bolton, Collingwood, Elmvale, Midland and Owend Sound
 
The fact this still shows dates for a continued rollout makes a lot of your customers very nervous.
Has the Navigatr rollout been stopped (paused, suspended, placed on hiatus, whatever) or hasn't it?
If it HAS, correct that page and remove the upcoming dates for now.
If it HASN'T, we need to be told the truth, now.
 
Oh and by the way, it's Owen Sound, NOT Owend Sound.
We know that no one checks Navigatr code before it's released, at least have someone proofread the web pages before they are posted.
 
Respectfully yours,
Neil Palmer

 

 

 

 

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

gregneff
I Plan to Stick Around

 

1) My wife, who is slightly nearsighted, now needs to get her glasses to read anything in Navigatr.  Readability is a function of size, font, and colour contrast.  This needs to be optimized to be useful for those of us with less than perfect vision, and the new interface is a step backward.  I would recommend that the interface be tested to the same standard as road signage, which I believe is to be readable with 20/40 vision.

 

2) We have about 10 episodes of a show recorded.  After watching an episode, Navigatr highlights a different episode than the one you were watching.  We accidentally deleted this different episode, and then realized that the one we had watched is further down the list.

 

3) Search is now useless.  It does not show future episodes or other channels. 

 

4) Search is harder to use.  The alphabet should be arranged in as square a matrix as possible, to minimize the number of arrow pushes to get to another letter.  Two long rows of letters require more key presses to get to the next letter.

 

5) I don't want to see a description jumping up and down because it is in a window that is too small for the content.  Make the window big enough for the content, or let us use our arrows to scroll up and down.

 

6) The time watched counter was relative to the show start time.  This was good.  Now it's relative to the end of the recording, which is not as useful.  Also, it's smaller and therefore harder to read.

 

7) Speaking as an Engineering Manager, I can't believe this user interface was actually delivered in this state.  If this was my project I would have been fired, and very rightly so.  I am annoyed and quite frankly insulted.  Paying customers are not to be used for Alpha testing without notice and permission, and Alpha testers should be 100% surveyed for feedback.

 

😎 Speaking as a long-time Rogers customer, I am very dissatisfied with this interface, and I hereby request that the prior user interface be reinstalled.

 

 

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Scraps
I Plan to Stick Around
Could not agree more. Thank you for mentioning some items that I had missed. What were they thinking? Have they heard about focus groups or beta tests before launching?

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

neilpalmer400
I'm a Trusted Contributor

gregneff

 

The time watched counter now being relative to the end of the recording means it is ABSOLUTELY USELESS when you are viewing (sorry, watching) a program that is still recording as this is a moving target.

If I'm watching a 3 hour race while it's still recording the time remaining is absolutely meaningless.

 

I've designed applications and programmed them, and Navigatr has all ths signs of a project dreamed up by someone who never bothered to consult ANY end users regarding the design, and certainly had no concern whatsoever for the visually impaired, yet alone those with old eyes, or anything smaller than an 80" 4K screen to watch this on.

Just because someone knows how to PROGRAM an application, doesn't mean the know how to DESIGN an application.

And with the number of bugs and glitches in this code I have my doubts about the ability to program too.

If I turned out code this bad I would expect to be fired.  Heck, I'd have the decency to quit !

I'm not even sure this code is mature enogh to be considered Alpha code.  Looks more like something someone whipped together one afternoon from smeared notes on a wet paper napkin after a 10 martini lunch.

 

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

neilpalmer400
I'm a Trusted Contributor

Scraps,

 

They may POSSIBLY have HEARD about focus groups and beta tests, but they obviously don't actually USE them.

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Scraps
I Plan to Stick Around

Thanks for taking the time to read about our frustrations. We know that nobody intentionally went out of their way to make our lives more difficult when trying to relax at home. However, may I suggest some ways to make us happy:

 

1. Do not spend time creating tutorials and videos but instead, make the functionality better (at least make it as good as the previous software). Most people that have been users of Nextboxes (in general) are savvy enough to understand how to use a PVR even after an upgrade. If you need to produce a tutorial and/or video, there is something wrong with the entire upgrade.

 

2. Get to the low hanging fruit now: font size, readability, navigating around recordings, show length of recording instead of time remaining, reduce the amount of clicks required to get to basic features.

 

3. After you have fixed the bigger issues, carry out a post-mortem on what went wrong! Was a beta test or focus group ever carried out? If it was, how did we end up with this mess? I would recommend inviting everyone within this blog to be your testers before the next upgrade. If these folks took the time and trouble to point out the weaknesses in the upgrade, they are obviously passionate about their TV experience and would, probably, be willing to beta test for you so that they can avoid another mess.

 

4. Give everyone that received the upgrade an apology and some kind of customer loyalty recognition (points, refund etc,). Most people are willing to forgive if they receive a sincere apology and are less likely to leave at the next opportunity. Bell is more than willing to snap us up!

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Scraps
I Plan to Stick Around
LOL! I know you are being serious, but I also appreciate the humour. Thanks.

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

park
I'm an Advisor

@Scraps wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to read about our frustrations. We know that nobody intentionally went out of their way to make our lives more difficult when trying to relax at home. However, may I suggest some ways to make us happy:

 

1. Do not spend time creating tutorials and videos but instead, make the functionality better (at least make it as good as the previous software). Most people that have been users of Nextboxes (in general) are savvy enough to understand how to use a PVR even after an upgrade. If you need to produce a tutorial and/or video, there is something wrong with the entire upgrade.

 

2. Get to the low hanging fruit now: font size, readability, navigating around recordings, show length of recording instead of time remaining, reduce the amount of clicks required to get to basic features.

 

3. After you have fixed the bigger issues, carry out a post-mortem on what went wrong! Was a beta test or focus group ever carried out? If it was, how did we end up with this mess? I would recommend inviting everyone within this blog to be your testers before the next upgrade. If these folks took the time and trouble to point out the weaknesses in the upgrade, they are obviously passionate about their TV experience and would, probably, be willing to beta test for you so that they can avoid another mess.

 

4. Give everyone that received the upgrade an apology and some kind of customer loyalty recognition (points, refund etc,). Most people are willing to forgive if they receive a sincere apology and are less likely to leave at the next opportunity. Bell is more than willing to snap us up!


 

Guess we'll know on Aug 4 th if Rogers is scrapping the Navigatr.

 

But in case they follow Scraps exellent recommendation, a couple more simple fixes:

 

When a progam starts recording , make it the most recent (so its on top of the chron list) rather than leave it buried somewhere in long list of recordings and to-be-recorded.  Contrary to my earleir posts, this system does put a red circle in the box/tile when a program is recoreding, but it does not pop it to the top till after the recording is finished.

 

Get rid of the box/tiles till you figure out something useful to do with them 

We like the list format and the tranparencey to see as well as hear whatever is on in the background.

 

I kinda liked the ability to choose colours in the old old Scientific Atlanta PVR ( SARA?)  

Easy to do, user friendly and a homage to a truly great machine for its time.

 

Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@neilpalmer400 wrote:

Scraps,

 

They may POSSIBLY have HEARD about focus groups and beta tests, but they obviously don't actually USE them.


Maybe Rogers spells focus a bit differently 😉

 

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Mister_A
I Plan to Stick Around

@Scraps wrote:
 

...Bell is more than willing to snap us up!


Hilariously, I recently switched from Bell, and I was already preparing a letter with suggestions to improve the previous, and now sadly lamented, interface.

 

Obviously, I'm not a big Bell fan, but their PVR / TV interface was already significantly better than Rogers' before this latest embarrassment - easy to read, more intuitive controls, fewer button-clicks, and better program descriptions. As an example, Bell's PVR is smart enough NOT to record multiple copies of the same show if it's repeated - once it's recorded a show, future airings of the same show are skipped automatically. And channel order -- don't get me started!

 

The interface is exactly that -- the customer's point of contact with the product. It's more important IMHO than the actual functionality, since a poorly designed interface frustrates and annoys your customers every time they use your product.

 

 

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Scraps
I Plan to Stick Around
You are just too funny. I like the dry sense of humour.

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

park
I'm an Advisor

Last night we watched the Big Bang Theory recorded on Thursday eveining,

but the closed captioning would not work.  It tried, spewing the odd letter there and there.

(CC works for other recordings)

 

Then I relaized its a great new feature, since we are typical Big Bang addicts

and can recite the dialogue almost by heart !!

 

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Mister_A
I Plan to Stick Around

I'M NOT JOKING!!!!!

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Mister_A
I Plan to Stick Around

...although I *do* see the irony, of course...

Re: Navigatr: list of recordings

SWBR
I Plan to Stick Around
The new Navigatr is a disaster. Try this: Whilst playing back a recorded program, try and activate closed captions. Oh, and try and bring up a list of any "Reminders" you may have activated. Rogers motto: "If it ain't broke we'll fix it until it is."

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

SWBR
I Plan to Stick Around
Changes appear to be more cosmetic than practical. Eg. the "Search" function. Only two rows of alpha requires more keystrokes. And why not a qwerty representation anyway?

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

DCBW
I'm Here A Lot

Has anyone else had their Described Video setting turn on after this new "upgrade"? I'm using an NB2 8642HD and can't turn it off since the Settings menu on this fancy new guide is blank.

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

SWBR
I Plan to Stick Around
Another lost feature, at least I haven't found it yet, is the ability to set recordings manually by selecting channel and day/time.

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

SWBR
I Plan to Stick Around
I've experienced the same prob as rogkrap. The solution offered isn't always that easy. I find it annoying when I select to record (for eg) channel 6 but it defaults to record the same prog on channel 514. Search for the "red dot?" Yeah right. Who has ALL the alternate companion channel numbers memorised?