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Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@Meowmix wrote:

Hello @park

The model number is  called CAV10242. 

 


Most likely. Technicolor is also in works for Rogers Smart Home Monitoring as their touch pad is from them as well.


 

If you have Rogers Home Security will Rogers offer any sort of guarantee against a break-in?

SPECIFICALLY against someone "breaking-in" to your home and installing a virus named Navigatr onto a PVR you own ?

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Hello @neilpalmer400

Why don't you ask that a the shareholders meeting you are going too ;). Lmao...
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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

The way I read this - this is a digital terminal only. If you want to record anything it's back to the old external HDD or SD card - "time shifting of content" is how they describe it.
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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@park My point of saying it was a "test", was that they clearly never did a test, but that is what it became. It bombed almost instantly, then they waited a few days before they pulled the rollout - So this is representative of their so called "extensive testing, internally only"  A beta test would involved testing by established users on existing machines, and clearly this was never done.  there could never have been this many things go wrong if there had been a true beta test.

 

It appears that Rogers implementation and testing teams feel that they can get things perfect without every involving testing on a "live machine", not a clean test machine. Nor do they even how to do a complete test of the full changed feature set.

 

So I was just making the assumptions based (yeh, I know what assume means Smiley Happy), I figure that when it bombed, that this was their first crack at getting theEspial Navigtr onto an existing box (the videos from Navigtr said they could do that, but never actually showed it working, nor did they show an interface with a PVR.)

 

So I figure they went for the initial run of a poorly prepared setup on the Nextbox and then killed the rollout to all boxes.  Maybe that is the hold on rollout that Espial was talking about - if it doesn't rollout, they may not get paid, but they remained focussed on the 4K box.  So my guess is that they put the whole Navigtr implemenation on hold and went back to 4K and did the work to rollout it out on brand new, redesigned Ciscso and technicolour boxes, with built in IPTV cabilities (by the way, will true 4K and IPTV ultimately require the gigabit ethernet?)

 

So now they have the 4k box ready to go, limited number of users have it, but not being fully marketed on the web site in terms of bundles and costs (cost of gigabit is there, but no bundles or 4K costs that I have seen anyway.)

 

So back to my original point, we became the test users, although I don't think it was ever planned that way.  There seems to be an issue of overpromising, underdelivering, one of the greatest sins of any service delivery company.  There is a lot of marketing overdelivering and technical and support (csr support) undelivering going on, just in case anyone at Rogers upper levels wonder why there are so many unhappy people out there.  overdelivering and underpromising is the fastest way to get happy customers.  Putting out good stable products is more important than being "first", and playing around with fancy marketing teams.

 

So now that the 4K terminal is out there with Navigtr, maybe they at least have it right on  a new box, but that still doesn't imply that the original issues on older well used boxes has been solved, and since there is no PVR 4K terminal on Navigtr out there yet, it is unkonwn whether the PVR will function in a user friendly, reliable way on either the old box or new boxes.

 

Guess, we know where the power lies in Rogers - with the marketing team, trying to put the best image to the shareholders and the market, and hopefully the user base won't just jump ship, which they know very well will be limited because there is so little competition.

 

Ahh the joys of oligopolies.

 

Bruce

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Well, my date was given by OOP memo, but I never got a email burst on it, so today, everything is the same at the moment, so I don't know what my date will be.  I haven't noticed that there have been a lot of users with rollouts to report on, wonder just how many they have done, and whether they put it on hold.  As I have said so many times before, just tell us the truth and keep us up to date - too much to ask for? I don't think so.  But couldn't do that though - that would mean the sugar candy coating of the marketing would melt away and the reality and honest implementations would come out, and just think, then maybe they would need to invest money in getting it doen well rather than spending a lot of money and lost money on damage control, keeping us in the dark, along with front line staff (we get different answers constantly, I suspect because they are just trying to satisfy us, get off the phone, and move on to the next one), and long term customers start considering moving (once we start considering, even if we don't move, we tell others not to come, and the chance that we finally get fed up and leave, or just keep cutting services back.

 

So I will let you know when I finally get the letter and when I get the new rollout.

With all the new shows starting back up again (3 last night, and a total of 17 in a week) - no I am not a horder, my wife and I just go different paths all week, and we sit down together and watch in the evenings and weekend, so for things to go wrong means that we don't get the benefits of why we have a PVR that can recorde more than 2 shows at a time - don't need 8, but 3-4 definitely, we need to find them easily, and not delete them in error.

 

Bruce

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@neilpalmer400 Yes, the 5 months to cool off would be about right, we get lost on everything that is going wrong - I have three tickets open on three different services, and I get the weekly email and don't even have a clue, nor any way to check (you used to be prompted on phone immediately about tickets, and we could see them on myrogers online - now, I just get them and wonder which one it is), and yes, I wonder about their ability to code a Hello World program, let alone a more complex one, like print it, fit it on the screen properly, remember to put a scroll bar on the bottom for zoomed test, and getting the account sign in working so you could actually run it.

 

Bruce

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

http://www.thestar.com/business/2016/01/05/rogers-navigatr-still-feels-lost-to-many-roseman.html

 

 

Ellen Roseman and the Star have piped in again, and the responses by the Rogers rep are again, not on point, and making sales pitches - Yes I hear your information about your stated 4:1 survey - how many of the surveys were sent - it didn't really provide a place for open ended responses - I did fill out one and it wasn't positive, but I really couldn't say what I truly felt about the device because the survey was well crafted to prevent any true negative responses.

 

As a statistics specialist, I take the result with a grain of salt from a survey recruited by the customer - the content is usually defined by the questioner (Rogers), and the survey company is limited in how they can design the survey and to develop a truly independent survey that asks questions like, did it works as expected, did it create difficulties, did you have to contact support to use it, was it easy to learn, was your requests for support provided to your satisfaction, etc.

 

Also, what was the sample size - was it sent to all people who got it, how many actually responded - survey responses are notorious for reflecting only those who love it, or hate it, or like to do surveys.  Without the sample provided, you also don't even present a statistical margin of error - the smaller the returned sample size, the greater the margin of error, so don't give me stats without the ability to interpret how it was developed.  Ever hear lies, dirty lies, and statistics.  Statistics practices and reporting of results are notorious for being interpreting what ever way you wish.

 

Let me pick out a few comments I wish to address - 

 

:The new Navigatr guide has improved speed and a redesigned look that is more intuitive, Lazarus said, as well as changes that resulted from customer feedback."

 

If this is true, why did you not provide new videos that fully presented all of the changes - the videos and FAQ's have little to no information on the changes, and don't speak to a lot of the concerns.  Having read the FAQ's announcements and viewed the videos, here the only things I see changed. At the end of all this, I still have no idea what is coming my way. 

 

From Mr.  Lazarus: 

 

Easier sorting of recorded programs, such as by series or date recorded.

 

That was already there - does it save now? That isn't new and still doesn't address the issue of finding our scheduled recordings versus future recordings.  This is mentioned as a search option in the FAQ's twice - 

 

http://www.rogers.com/web/support/tv/nextbox/9087

 

  • Get to what you want to watch sooner by searching and sort your shows quickly with redesigned PVR menus.

So is the only thing the one you mentioned about search and sort by series or date recorded - not new at all.

 

Better colour contrast and layout, plus a larger font size that is easier to read.

 

Thank you to the CRTC for this one - this is called accommodating, and also currently mandated by CRTC and coming into place with AODA - so thank you for meeting the requirements for accommodating those with visual disabilities.  I thank you for it, but don't forgive you for not dealing with it in the first place.

 

A fixed parental control that will display only when it’s on. Some people said they couldn’t turn it off.

 

So you fixed the bug that was introduced with the last rollout - I hope you have figured out how to prevent loss of shows, people are still losing shows, getting null or undefined values, and this is not new in Navigtr, it has been around for a while now.

 

Mr. Lazarus did not comment the current status of loss of recordings, nor did he comment on the results of the limited rollout - we have seen here on the board that there are people coming forth with problems - is this still the way Rogers approachs testing - just  dump it out on a non-voluntary group because you believe that your box is best for Rogers and the experience, yet all over the world, people are using alternative boxes with cable cards and it is required by law in the U.S.  This is a choice by Rogers to go this route - doesn't surprise me - you make a lot of money on these boxes.

 

“For now, we are taking a slower approach with a relatively small group of customers in the downtown area and GTA,” he said. “Some folks who had the initial version may be included in the December update and the remainder will get the updated version in the coming weeks.

 

You have been sending out emails, from what I have heard, but we have heard different dates and places from CSR's, OOP, and on this board, so what are we to believe is happening. Glad you are taking a slower approach with your chosen beta testers, against their will if they don't want to be one.  you don't mention whether you will be stopping if major issues come up, and whether you will fix anything that comes up with each group before going to the next group.  The tentative schedule I was given by OOP was predefined in mid December and it was no slower than the projected last rollout - mid december to mid January.

 

And the statement Will customers who received the new guide last July and August get the latest update? Not right away. is contractictory with the statement that some folks (ahh, how nice we are folks, who had the initial version may be included...

 

So the ones who had it last summer won't get it right away, but in the next question, they may.  Which is it?  Keep your message straight.

 

I won't respond to the whole discussion about David Lennock's concerns and Mr. Lazarus didn't respond to any of those stated concerns other than the marketing pitch that the box is designed to use their network at its optimum - certainly hasn't been to optimum yet, or ever for that matter, so why should we trust your message this time.

 

And I have already commented on the question about choice of boxes and interfaces - Rogers has chosen not to do so, period.

 

Time to push the CRTC and politicians to force our providers of cable service down the same route as the U.S. and to not allow them to force bundling of their Internet and TV services.  If we speak, it may come.

 

Another person said: “It is about time that Rogers started paying us alpha testers for the multitude of hours we have wasted with this thing.”

 

No comment on that one at all - 

 

So what appears to be changed based upon this report - 

 

The new Navigatr guide has improved speed and a redesigned look that is more intuitive, Lazarus said, as well as changes that resulted from customer feedback. They include:

  • Easier sorting of recorded programs, such as by series or date recorded.
 
  • Better colour contrast and layout, plus a larger font size that is easier to read.
  • A fixed parental control that will display only when it’s on. Some people said they couldn’t turn it off.

No comments on the bugs that were identified, the sorting issues, the accidental deletions because of the list swapping back to the newest recording from the one you just finished watching, so you may then just click delete and delete the wrong one, and the do you want to delete is defaulted to yes - standard in industry is to always default to no.

 

No comments on the information provided in the FAQ, or even mention of it.

 

I won't comment on the stats, we all know the phrase, lying with stats - anyone can manipulate a questionairre to get the result you want, and to manipulate the results and intepretation to what you want to present.

 

I will comment on this one though:  The result was that by a margin of almost four to one (agree vs. strongly disagree), people said they thought Navigatr offered a better experience compared to the old guide. “

 

That is the guide - I don't have a lot of issues with the guide, but what about the PVR - no comment on that and this PVR versus Guide is the greatest concern with people - that the PVR is a mess - what did you do to fix that, or is that still in the works since you don't have it ready for the 4K yet, will it be ready for us - no comment.

 

Rogers spokesman Aaron Lazarus apologized for the program deletions when interviewed in my column on Aug. 14, “Rogers TV upgrade leads to headaches.”

 

Then we heard nothing until December, nor have we seen even a video presentation of a live use of a box in the real world, not your testing environment, and we were left to continue to debug the disaster, being basically unpaid customers.

 

The new Navigatr guide will be introduced — at a slow pace while bugs are worked out — to all Ontario subscribers, Lazarus said.

 

So we continue to be bug testers and you will listen and decide which of our concerns you will respond to.

 

So not surprised by this response, it is consistent with Rogers indirectly stated position that it is our box, or the highway.

 

Finally: from Ellen

 

Ellen’s advice

Even if most people prefer the new Navigatr guide, some subscribers find it’s worse than before. They don’t like spending time trying to find fixes and workarounds.

 

Rogers is leaving the early group in limbo for months. Who can blame them for griping? Many still don’t have a firm date for when the “improved” guide to reach them.

 

Customers hurt by the change should demand compensation and tell the cable monopoly they could defect to fibre optic TV instead.

 

So at the moment, we are left with the best advice being her last recommendation, and let's be honest, unless we all start departing on mass, saying that we "could" defect will have no influence.  It hasn't influenced them yet either the statement, or the people who have left.

 

And since they will be testing and fixing bugs as they go along - since it has taken 5 months plus to deal with the first one's, just how long will we be a part of the group being left in limbo with no firm dates.  Their current bug fixes (limited based upon reported changes) shows they have responded only to the things that prevent the box from functioning, are in violation with supporting those with visual problems, and reexplaining the parental control - does that mean that some of us are going to have it on by default on the rollout and you have been kind enough in the article above to tell us how to deal with it.

 

Not impressed.

 

And the response to the survey results is perfect and dead on -

 

"Even if most people prefer the new Navigatr guide, some subscribers find it’s worse than before. They don’t like spending time trying to find fixes and workarounds."

 

In our words, we don't like being your unpaid beta testers, providing no clear communication and feedback to our concerns, you listen, but don't answer, and I definitely do not like spending time trying to find fixes and workarounds.  Dead on that last portion - I have done this for a living and it doesn't come cheap - so with each month I wait, I will be pushing all the way to CRTC if necessary to say, free debugging and suffering with a poorly designed and implemented product, and ignoring the usability issues from knowledgeable designers and programmers is no longer accepted and I want compensation.

 

And the story goes on.  Who knows when I will see the next build, I guess the new people out there are still debugging and providing information to Rogers, so they can try to get it right on the next group, and I expect that we will be at this process for a while.  So new people, take Ellen's advice, and contact her if they don't and maybe she will help you escalate the whole issue rather than you having to do it all on your own - demand compensation for your inconvenience, and debugging and communication time and wasted time dealing with it.  Keep track of the actual time and tell them exactly how much time or at least how many contacts you made and bury them under it, but don't spend to long on each level.  We all have legitimate reasons to move rapidly to CRTC - CCTC doesn't deal with cable at this time and you are not required to go to the Ombudsman, but you can if you wish.

 

Good luck everybody.

 

Bruce

 
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Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@BS wrote:

@neilpalmer400 Yes, the 5 months to cool off would be about right, we get lost on everything that is going wrong - I have three tickets open on three different services, and I get the weekly email and don't even have a clue, nor any way to check (you used to be prompted on phone immediately about tickets, and we could see them on myrogers online - now, I just get them and wonder which one it is), and yes, I wonder about their ability to code a Hello World program, let alone a more complex one, like print it, fit it on the screen properly, remember to put a scroll bar on the bottom for zoomed test, and getting the account sign in working so you could actually run it.

 

Bruce


 

I get the same thing, repeated (weekly probably) automated phone calls or emails referring to a ticket # that I have no clue which reported problem it is about, because not only are they too imcompetent to include a brief description of the problem, the ticket # you get quoted is usually totally different from the one you are given over the phone when you first reported a problem. 

Yet another example (as if we needed another) of how Rogers Communications CAN'T COMMUNICATE EFFECTIVELY.  Smiley Mad

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@BS wrote:

 

So now that the 4K terminal is out there with Navigtr, maybe they at least have it right on  a new box, but that still doesn't imply that the original issues on older well used boxes has been solved, and since there is no PVR 4K terminal on Navigtr out there yet, it is unkonwn whether the PVR will function in a user friendly, reliable way on either the old box or new boxes.

 



Well, I have a good idea what will happen. The 4K boxes will work (relatively) well with Navigatr and PVR but will NEVER work to our satisfaction with our older boxes. Soooo, we'll be talked into getting the "new and improved" box to replace it and, of course, PAY MORE for that privilege.

 

 

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

The very fact that all victims of the original Navigatr rollout aren't getting the "new improved" version only means one thing. Rogers isn't entirely confident with the changes or if they'll work. We've already heard some negative reports.


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