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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Here is an article from earlier this year about the policy of marketing to what Rogers described as middle and higher tier user groups who are interested in paying more money for value.  They acknolwedge that lower tier users and people not interested have moved on, but their income position is not changed because they have more income from less customers.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rogers-profit-beats-estimates-as-customers-monthly...

 

But the following statements are of most interest to me:

 

Rogers defends departure of wireless subscribers - The Globe and Mail

“Consequently we’re adjusting the amount of investment we put into some of the other price tiers … people then have a choice as to how they view that in terms of value for money,” Mr. Laurence said on a call with reporters after the company announced its earnings.

 

Rogers defends departure of wireless subscribers - The Globe and Mail

Mr. Laurence described Rogers’s subscriber loss as “a tale of two cities,” saying it had to be considered in the context of the company’s investment in add-ons that help retain higher-spending customers. “You’ve got significant improvement in customer satisfaction with the mid– and high-tiers and you’ve got a small number of people that have decided that it’s not for them.”

 

Rogers defends departure of wireless subscribers - The Globe and Mail

Rogers also lost a total of 58,000 cable subscribers in the period, more than the loss of 29,000 analysts expected, leading to what Macquarie Capital analyst Greg MacDonald said he believed to be “the worst subscriber result in the company’s history.”

Despite the challenges on the subscriber side, the company reported better than expected financial results with adjusted earnings of 69 cents per share, ahead of the 64 cents analysts on average predicted.

 

If they are not careful, they may find that their cable subscriber side of things is going to keep falling.

 

And the article also confirms to me that I wasn't out of my mind when I felt that as a long term customer who uses tier one services in wireless that I was being constantly marketed to spend more money to get more services and value for the money when I have never wanted it, and that in my other services, I was being sold on things like Shomi and NHL, higher speeds, higher caps, etc, when I really don't need it.

 

So get my cable services working and I will then stick with my tier one services in wireless and middle tier on the cable and Internet services.

 

It was not until I read this article that I finally realized that, "yes, I am being marketed constantly to pay more for "value added services", that I didn't want and that the current marketing model implies that they really don't care if they lose us as customers.

 

But I will keep saying the definition of value is determined by me, not by Rogers CEO and shareholders and I won't buy services that are only available bundled in with a whole bunch of stuff I dont' want or need.  And ultimately at the end of the day, I may dump everything if we can't get reliable TV watching.

 

I can't find the other quote where he said that if they had difficulty getting the customer base and reducing churn, that he would find the money internally whereever he could find it.

 

Guess Quality Assurance of new implementations to make the "consumer experience" better may have been one of the areas that took a hit.

 

Ahh the life of an oligopoly. How you can lose customers, and get more money out of new customers astounds me. Guess some people just have too much money to spend (or debt to grow) and love to have every new toy they are given at any cost.

 

Just focus some energy on getting cable correct could you please - between cutting the cord, and switching, Rogers numbers are taking a pretty big hit.

 

Bruce 

 

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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Was doing a bit of research on the various PVR setboxes out there and absolutely none of them put recordings into tiles, they are in lists - sometimes the list is just the title and you can see how many recordings are currently saved, so call it al

big long lateral tile.

 

They all seperate the view of recordings from the view of future recordings, with various ways of moving from a list of single recordings, versus series recordings in the future.

 

A unique one again is future recordings all listed by date, which you can also sort in various ways depending upon the box, and in the unique one, the title is there, and a white circle differentiates series from single recordings.

 

Sort of same concept as Navigtr which has a single dot or multiple red dots, but don't dump everything in one tile.

 

Now here is an interesting one though about Espial and Navigtr and RTN.  Espial's model does not include a PVR local drive model, it is PVR over the network, which can be traditional Cable technology, or IPTV, or even a combination of both, which I suspect is where Rogers was trying to take Navigtr.

 

I don't think that the programming was ever intended to be PVR at the local level without programming uniquely for each company using the RTN platform for legacy boxes.

 

Looks like they probably rushed it out without adequate testing of all feature sets available to the user, or adequate programming for the PVR functions.

 

As for the search functions, many of the boxes out there use a ranking of thumbs up and thumbs down to build unique viewing recommendations, but Rogers isn't equipped to individual recommendations yet, so it seems to be that they decided to write simple algorithms that look to payed services first and don't deal with live menu items very well at all.  Probably is because the live menu items rely on the external menu guide providers, where as all the on-demand stuff is pretty stable and not changing often and sits on their servers, so is probably easily interfaced while we watch that particular show.  They might as well have turned the feature off until it was fully ready to be rolled out - instead, they just annoyed everybody and caused many conspiracy ideas.

 

Future, the large number of NB2's that lost recordings suggests to me that they did limited testing on "live user boxes" before they rolled it out.  More likely they worked in house (which we have been told before), with artifically created sets of test recordings that didn't reflect the reality of what users may do over a few years of owning the box (thereby why they suggest it was a user error - not user error, just not considering and testing the various configurations and possible corruptions that may have developed over time).  So they were left with the only alternative was to do a factory reset and push out the software (probably no changes to it at all, as it no longer matters whether it deletes any recordings, because with factory reset there are none).

 

So basically, it looks like since the programming UI model was never designed for setbox recorded shows on a local drive, they were stuck with trying to create a very awkward workaround based upon the tile model - which would be fine if you could go into list and see the tiles of all recordings and see the number of new and the number of series recordings in the tile.

 

Then have a separate tile view for future recordings, that differentiate one future recording or a series of future recordings (but the reality is that since it is driven from the menu, there will never be anymore than one series recording in there.  It doesn't appear that there was any consideration of being able to look at future recordings that are not in the menu guide yet (excuse me if I keep mixing up channel guide and menu) I mean guide in all of these.

 

May not even be able to program for this depending upon how the RTN and Espial version 4 sits ontop of a legacy box.

 

So we will see.

 

But boy it would be nice if a Rogers rep came out and said what they are trying to achieve - coming on 5 months, they should have an idea by now, unless they have been doing nothing waiting to get the infrastructure and servers up to stream for Network PVR, and mix of QUAM and IPTV in place just as the 4K solution comes out and gigabit internet is fully in place, because it is going to require a lot of switching and network channels to run all that stuff over cable technology infrastructure. 

 

But if I can pretty much figure out the options and I don't even have a background in cable and video applications, then there is no reason why they can't tell us where they plan to go.

 

So will they push it out with a somewhat improved, with less bugs interface, as we currently know it with all it's inconvenient ways of working with the PVR lists and recordings, and all Live TV items debugged, like the save sorting, turn off the suggestions options, etc.

 

Option 2. They just leave it as is until they move to a full implementation of Network PVR, with IPTV and broadband cable infrasture in place, with new boxes with no hard drives, and old boxes with unused hard drives, and IPTV apps options.

 

Option 3. They go to another company model - there is no shortage of them and come up with a new model, but there is material on the net that shows that Rogers and Espial are going to be the model used for the 4K solutions, so I suspect we may see a first move to option 1, with some improvements, and debugging, but still awkward to use as why do to much programming on something you plan to kill anyway, then a move to Option 2, with lots of encouragement of moving to the full new box model of version 4.

 

I think with the rumours we have heard about releases in November, then now in December, or February, I think they were intending to give option 1, then 2 a try, but my own guess is option 1 is undoable without leaving us complaining how bad the pvr side of things is working, and we will see it out when network PVR comes into place - and some storage and full IPTV features will be added over time to match Bell's abiltiy to go back to a show from 30 hours ago and carry various apps like netflix, facebook, twitter, and probably more to come.

 

Please, please, be respectful of your customers and tell us something - just be upfront and honest and stop trying to hide your failures or admit to them - we all know it was a glaring failure - you at least did the right thing and stopped the rollout, but you left us poor souls who got stuck with the mess to struggle on a day to day basis.

 

Wonder if the current problems with on demand and shomi are related to the whole "upgrading" to a new technological model of services.  See when we aren't told anything, we make up our own ideas of what is going on.

 

What we know so far is Rogers can rollout Cable setboxes reliably or fix known problems over the long run - Scientific American and onwards, that they can stay on top of changes in OS's on phones, that they can stay with the market on VoLTE and be ready for the rollout of features like that when the phone providers decide to implement new technology on the large LTE base you are so proud of advertising, that they can't stay ahead of the industry changes in NPAPI and HTML 5 even when informed two years in advance that it was coming, and the list goes on.

 

Bottom line as was said earlier here, I don't think I want to be the first to try out any new technology change from Rogers.  They can't even get the stuff they already have right - just how long does it take to finish the programming change from NPAPI when the model to do it has been out there for a long time, and why are you still using security certificate models that no longer are supported by most browsers and are over a decade out of date.

 

A little less focus on "value for the money" and how about "quality for the money first"?

 

Bruce

 

 

 

I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 2

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

I have so many issues with the new guide, it's ridiculous.

1. Annoyingly slow response to the remote

2. When searching for a show to record, the boxes don't show enough info to enable you to choose the right show.

3. The recorded shows are listed with the newest recorded show first instead of the oldest so that if you're watching a series in date order, you have to scroll down to the bottom to find the oldest show. Then, when you're done, you have to scroll down to the bottom of the list again to find the show you just watched so you can delete it.

4. Can't watch a show that is the midst of recording unless it's finished recording.

5. In the box where it shows scheduled and recorded shows, you can't switch from viewing what's recorded to what's scheduled without exiting the box and coming back in.

6. If for whatever reason you miss the end of a show, no " go to end" option anymore. You have to start at the beginning and fast forward through possibly almost 2 hours of a show to get to the part you missed where if you could "go to end", you would just rewind through much less.

 

Now for the tv side:

1. Channels switching, selecting channels,scrolling through the guide, etc. all extremely slow.

2. Choosing "favourite" channels now have to be done through the guide instead of the remote which is very time consuming and slow.

 

Bring back the old guide

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I'm an Advisor
Posts: 764

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Hello @Ldavis2804,

A good summary of some of the issues we are facing.  A quick note:

 

#4 - Not obvious, but you CAN view a program currently being recorded.  Press LIST, find the name of the program being recorded, press OK/SELECT to open the program tile, move to SCHEDULED tab.

 

The program being recorded will appear, and you can watch it from the beginning. 

 

It would be nice if programs currently being recorded were moved to the TOP of the list, and not near the bottom...

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I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 102

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Or ...

 

Option 4. Do the sensible thing (as Cgeco have done) and switch to using Tivo as your PVR supplier. 

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I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 102

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Much as I hate to give _any_ credit to Rogers for this mess, #4 is wrong - you can watch while it is recording. BUT you have to select the "Scheduled" part of the tile and select watch there.

You will then find that if you finish watching _after_ the program finishes recording you then have to switch to the other tab to delete the watched program ... sigh.
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Posts: 480

Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@Ldavis2804 wrote:

I have so many issues with the new guide, it's ridiculous.

,,,,,,,,,

 

Bring back the old guide


 

Well said.  Roll-back (what I call Option 0) is the only viable option.

I have no idea what options 1,2,3,4 are.  Nor do I much care.

This is the only path that get Rogers out of the pickle as it treats all Rogers customers fairly.

All we want is a PVR that works the way we humans can understand. 

Even if it takes wiping our recorded  shows,

I'm sure Rogers can make amends as the they did earlier w NB2 and zapped NB3s.

 

Besides, after more than 4 months, Rogers has demonstrated that it cannot fix Navigatr.

 

In future:

Assuming Rogers does some end-user testing in future with real users (pick a sample from this thread),

it can then update or make whatever future enhancements the customer panel endorse/approve.

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I'm an Advisor
Posts: 764

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

JonBoy49,

Two things:

 

1. Don't hold your breath about reverting to commonly available, low cost DVR equipment. That will never happen, as hardware is a cash cow for Rogers and other providers. 

 

2. Was your second post a response to mine? I was not wrong, you simply posted exactly what I said above. Worst case, you did not read any posts above yours. 

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I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 102

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Not a response to you no - it was to the OPs original list where he identifed a "watch while recording" problem. Your post had not appeared when I responded.

For some reason this forum does not always seem to associate the posts correctly with the one that was responded to. But given that Rogers seem pathologically incapable of doing anything right in the software arena I guess that should not come as a surprise to any of us.

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I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 102

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

But "other providers" _have_ made the switch - and if I lived 5 miles west of where I live now I could switch to Cogeco and be a happy little camper again.

Best Buy (for example) sell Tivo devices - I doubt they do it for love - so $s can be made that way too. The costs associated with trying to sort this mess out, fixing it, service calls, lost customers, etc. must be huge. I would love to hear from someone at Cogeco how they justified the switch.