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I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 193

Re: New Nextbox Navigatr

If these 'reputable' Canadian companies did develop the code for Navigatr, and it has been shown to be as bad as it appears then their reputations are not earned. Would a reputable company take a contract and develop something so bad on purpose? Any company worth its salt would walk away from a contract that expected a product to be produced for an unreasonably low cost. As for the outsourcing, big comanies, like the banks in Canada that you probably do business with, are doing it now to cut costs and i know firsthand about the poor quality work that they provide especially the offshore ones in India.

 

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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: New Nextbox Navigatr

I only brought the point of the known outsourced companies (when I say outsourced, in the case of Rogers, it makes more sence that they purchase outside apps and services - they are a telcom, and media company, including sports now too, not a software company or hardware company).  There really is no rational reason for them to do the work in house.

 

Many years ago, back in the days of CP/CN telecommunications, then Cantel, and forward, they used to do it all in house, but now it is like if you go into a large department store - they don't build and support their point of sale systems - they buy it.  that way they don't.

 

The company Espial actually has a well earned reputation (has systems running all over Africa and Europe, with major companies is the U.S. they lay under Utube, Netflix, and other media over the Internet, but the reality is their business is IP based and IPTV, not Cable.  Their videos and advertising speak strongly that they can lay this on top of legacy boxes, but my guess is with Cisco pulling out of the setbox business and interface for media and going back to their expertise of server media farms, switching systems, and protocols, and selling the system now on our boxes to a company in Europe, and the decision that Rogers will move towards IPTV as fast as possible, that it would make sense that they should give this intermediate option out there a try.  Obviously it did not work well, so with this many months in between, having been in the business of this stuff, I suspect that Espial with Rogers has gone back to the drawing board.  I wouldn't be surprised if we never see the transition to the existing boxes to IPTV, and we see a full new box with 4K capability and IPTV cabality, and gig Ethernet (sound familiar) probably coming in the next year, and we will be left with a choice between cable based systems, or going full out to IPTV.

 

And will companies roll out a poorly designed product from the perspective of the consumer, and the hardware technology that the application is being applied to.  Just think Microsoft Vista, first time out, or Windows 2.0, then Windows 3.0 for workgroups (networked versions).  Or Windows NT (most complext beast to work with compared to Novel, but at the end of the day, Microsoft won, Novell systems are still around in use, as well as Linux. Look at Blackberry currently struggling to figure out what market they are in, what their platform should be (in house BB, or Android combined with their security, networking systems and Samsung security and screens - when companies try new technology, sometimes it fails, and often customers are not willing to wait).  I could give many more examples, but I think I made my point.  New technology is risky, we got caught in the middle, now they are scurring to recover, but unfortunately, they are staying very quiet about what happened or where they are going.

 

I do say though, that I don't buy  it that they can't roll our poorly implemented change to Navigtr back. Maybe back three months ago, it was committed to going forward with a business plan and suppliers, training, etc, but now that it appears that it will be a long time, I cannot see a reason why they can't roll us all back.  Only big issue is you would lose all recordings, go back to a system that had its own problems, and there may also be some that are more than happy with the new one bugs and all.  I don't know anybody, but there may be some.  Can't make everybody happy.

 

Unless it is a business decision, and that is risky for Rogers, because it is forcing all of us to consider other companies, which there are no shortage of options.

 

For now, I am sticking and taking a wait and see.  I lost three recordings of my wife's last night because I forgot to check that it had popped back up to the first one at the top when I deleted the show I watched.  I didn't look at the text, just saw the watch, delete, manage, and went delete two more times -- oops two shows gone.  have to slow down.

 

Bruce

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Posts: 193

Re: New Nextbox Navigatr

Quite the extensive reply. I'll keep it much shorter. Having spent my entire working life (35 years) in software development, no contractor cares as much about a company's image as the company does or should. The company hiring the contractor has to monitor and set expectations for performance from those that it outsources to that it would for its own employees if they did the work. Clearly, that wasn't done here and was handled about as badly as it could have been. Contractor or not, Rogers dropped the ball either by not setting expectations or allowing shoddy work. It looks like both. Lousy design including no attention to usability or the customer experience and clearly no fallback plan of any kind. All hallmarks of a lousy, substandard development team.

I've Been Around
Posts: 1

Re: New Nextbox Navigatr

My nextbox 3 has not been upgraded with the new navigator guide.

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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 3,598

Re: New Nextbox Navigatr


@svalko wrote:

My nextbox 3 has not been upgraded with the new navigator guide.


If you were not in the original beta group, you'll have to wait until the bugs have been fixed.


SA8300HD, SA8300SD, DTA50, LG-E410B PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario
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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 63

Re: New Nextbox Navigatr

Hi @rgottinger (and you too, @BS),

 


@rgottinger wrote:

Quite the extensive reply. I'll keep it much shorter. Having spent my entire working life (35 years) in software development, no contractor cares as much about a company's image as the company does or should. The company hiring the contractor has to monitor and set expectations for performance from those that it outsources to that it would for its own employees if they did the work. Clearly, that wasn't done here and was handled about as badly as it could have been. Contractor or not, Rogers dropped the ball either by not setting expectations or allowing shoddy work. It looks like both. Lousy design including no attention to usability or the customer experience and clearly no fallback plan of any kind. All hallmarks of a lousy, substandard development team.


 

Not necessarily -- on two occasions in my personal experience, the 'client' insisted on customization of the basic software by the contractor (in one case, actually doing it themselves with a team of in-house programmers), with the unsurprising result that the 'customized' software was a dog's breakfast of obtuse coding and counterintuitive user interface, coupled with major processing delays, because the 'clients' don't understand what the base software can/can't do, nor how to design sensible UI's, nor, for example, how databases and security work. While I don't program, I do contract for UI programming, for example for industrial equipment, and I know what is, and is not, a good product, and also when to leave the experts alone.

 

This schlemozzle is most likely Rogers' fault caused by meddling and ignorance of the team involved. Of course, it would behoove the contractor to point out obvious flaws, but there's a specification and a budget, and Rogers is paying the bills. As a 'contractor' myself, I care about *my* reputation, which is not enhanced by letting clients make foolish mistakes. Naturally, I lose a few clients along the way.

 

Regards,

Mr. A

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 63

Re: New Nextbox Navigatr

Great Jumping Jehosophat! I just realized that my 'rank' or 'level' or 'grade' or whatever it is says I'm going to stay, when I'm pretty sure I'm going to do the exact opposite!!! Therefore, I'll need to post a few more of these to Level Up. Unfortunately, one does not receive any new weapons or armor or anything when that happens...

 

So the latest brilliance has just occurred on my Wrecksbox -- my PVR recording level just went from ~50% to 98% in the course of an afternoon. (I know what you're thinking -- I must have been playing 'WrecksBox' non-stop to gain that many experience points, but nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!)

 

At first, I figured that a few hundred more shows recorded, because the DreckBox can't identify things it's already recorded, and therefore if one is attempting to record past shows, and sets it to record 'all' shows, it goes ahead and records ALL, and I mean ALL INSTANCES of the stupid show, including 4-5 copies of the same episode, which the cable channels are nice enough to run 4-5 times per week.

 

But that wasn't the problem, as I discovered when I started going through the multiple copies and deleting them painstakingly, one at a time. What *did* happen is a single episode of one program recorded an apparent 4486 minutes (at least according to the info in the tile)!!!!

 

I'd finished stocking the living room with three days of provisions and settled in to watch the episode, but when I tried to play it, the eingeschploked HexBox rebooted. I'm still waiting to see if any of my other recordings have survived. Since I obviously need to boost my post totals, I shall be happy to report back!!!

 

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode!

 

Mr. A

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Posts: 193

Re: New Nextbox Navigatr

And standing up for what you believe in and protecting your reputation is the right thing to do. I have been on the other side numerous times and not found any large companies that won't try to get the customer to do things the easy way. As the customer we had to insist our requirements were met and things were done like having a backup plan and a rollback strategy in the event that something catastrophic went wrong. I expect thought that in this case blame falls on both sides both Rogers and their contractors.

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Posts: 193

Re: New Nextbox Navigatr

I've never used 'ALL' precisely because of that reason. I imagine the interpretation to be all occurrences of a show on all stations regardless of duplication of episodes because there is no way to isolate stations. Combining it into 1 file is just stupid but then again IBM India once asked me how to sort a french dropdown list.

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Re: New Nextbox Navigatr

From the sounds of it on this forum that isn't likely to be any time soon. It took them well over a week to address the expired security key on the Rogers Protection app with their contractor