New Nextbox Navigator

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I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 304

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

As far as anyone defending Navigatr in these forums, well it's pretty hard to defend the indefensible (and inexcusable).

 

I will agree with Bill, the Rogers Nextbox/RTN software combination is the WORST piece of consumer electronics equipment I have EVER had the misfortune to have to deal with (and I'm including all products I've had experience with going back to my AM radio in the 60's).  And I'm saying that as someone who has NOT yet received Navigatr on my PVR's.  If/when that does happen I will give it a fair chance and spend 24 hours checking out every issue complained about on these forums.  If a single one of them remains unfixed then I'll be on the Highway To Bell (Fibe) the next day and will also say goodbye Rogers Internet & Wireless (I've already ditched their Home Phone, and am not brain dead so I have never even considered trusting them with Home Security, or using Rogers Bank).

 

 

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

I have one question.  The old guide was well designed and user friendly  Why did they change a great guide for a terrible one?   Just answer me Rogers....WHY????

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@teabag43

That is the million dollar question - yet to be answered despite many pleas!

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

I have my own theory which is based upon my continued research of Espial, Cisco, documentated business between all three and Rogers, changing industry, and for those are interested, you can follow this tread back find the links to the various companies and the industry communications, and do a bit of your own research.

 

I think this journey began with the sale of Scientific American setboxes to Cisco and the movement to RTN from SARA, which proved to be full of problems, which is always the case when you start changing programming standards around.

 

Some of those were fixed, some still remain, functionality was lost, some brought back, and others crippled or lost.

 

So the journey continues to bring in the ability to record on 8 channels - have to outdo Bell who is pushing Bell Fibre out real fast back a number of years. Bell has also implemented technology with a new setbox no longer Motorola (the other big player), but a new company based upon IPTV.  But this change is not an issue for them, because they can move full out to the new technology because they were not a player in wired or fibre access to TV in the home. They had sattelite, but now they have both, with no need to touch their sattelite technology and business and settop boxes, and no need to try to layer new technology onto legacy boxes (our RTN based nextboxes of all numbers) are now described as legacy - yeh I know most of us are still rent to owning these boxes and will own them in another year or two.  It is not just a matter of buying last years models, we are buying boxes based upon a dying technological base.

 

 

Rogers tried to take advantage of the fact that Cisco could provide whole home tv, and play on any device in the home, and ability to move to IPTV - then Bell markets a few things that Rogers cannot do on old technology - like buy tickets to sports events, Facebook, Twitter and the like (apps) and the one my wife says, Why can't Rogers do that - come into the middle of a show and go back to the beginning.  Why can they do that, they are based upon IPTV fully and not hindered by old technology based upon broadcasting all channels to everybody and you decode what you pay for, while in IPTV, you broadcast only what the user wants, and if they want to fully implement it, they can actually let you go back many days to a past show (not like on demand), but the original broadcast show.  It is a whole new TV experience, one that Rogers cannot offer right now.

 

So why do we see the change - because they went with Espial as their user interface (who knows why - good price, - Cisco was selling their user interface and maybe couldn't move fast enough for Rogers, or contract issues, or a good sales pitch - could be any) -these we may never know because of the usual line - trade secrets and confidential contracts, but the interesting thing is one can deduce exactly what is happening by searching the industry documents and financials on the Internet).

 

So what do I think happened and why can't we roll back - technology there is no reason they can't put it back, warts and all as it was - but I suspect that they have a contract to roll out a certain amount of the Espial interface because that is the way Espial actually makes their money - they make their income on every installed setbox software - and I would have no doubt that there are penalty clauses if Rogers does not live up to it in that they pay for the licensing whether they roll it out or not (common industry deadline and rollout contracts build these in so the purchaser can't delay or back out putting the suppling company at financial risk).  And probably they are paying licensing for each RTN install to Cisco or the new company, and that they can stop paying as they remove those installs. I doubt that we will ever know, but the total resistance to rolling back suggests that the issue is contractual, or business plan related, or just plain ego - can't admit that things went wrong.

 

I suspect that this new programming interface of Espial's and their promise that they can roll it out on legacy boxes didn't work out as well as hoped and a huge number of bugs and problems occurred - same as the move from SARA to RTN, or say in the network industry - Novell to Windows NT, to Windows 2000 server and onward, and the related protocols and clients that can interface on them all.  This could be done seemlessly in general because they were using industry standards that still exist to this date.  No one has removed the core protocols, they have just improved them and always generally as much as possible kept them backwards compatable.

 

As Espial said in one of their documents, they are having difficulties with the cable industry trying to do its own thing and not try to build on a common standard which will be of benefit to all.  Because of standards, MAC can talk to Windows, to Unix, to phones, to tablets, and various operating systems, and different choice of network protocols, because they kept the standards in place.  They didn't try to create their own versions of IP.

 

Rogers is trying to layer IPTV and other standards onto the old Cable box standards, and Espial is partly responsible because they said they could, but the question is did Rogers work closely with them to see what this overlay could and could not do, or did they just go with what it sort of could do, let the things it couldn't do go forward and decided to do their best to get through it as fast as possible, knowing that eventually they will completely drop the old box systems and go to the new full IPTV, interface with apps and and so forth.  The interesting thing is that with full IPTV implementation on the setbox and on the media farms, there is no need for PVR's.  You can access anything that you subscribe for as long as the media provider or network keeps it available for showing - sort of like HBO movies, or Netflix - note that Espial is being used by Netflix, Utube and various on demand media provision companies.

 

In all the presentations, you don't acutally hear Espial even mention PVR's, other than saying that they can layer their model on top of legacy systems and boxes.  But from the experience we have been through, I don't think that it really does layer onto legacy systems and models and PVR's well.  RTN didn't either as we all know.

 

But we still have silence, this is just theory based upon my own experience, and I don't think that contractually, or based upon possibly they don't want to eat the cost, or are willing to risk loss of customers that they want to roll us back - it is not that they can't - technologically they can, there are just "confidential business factors" which they can't or won't tell us.  

 

I still wait to here from Rogers, but the longer they wait to fully implement, the longer I suffer with the box, but that is not something new, it is just new problems, and if need be, we can all decide to move on, cut the cord, etc.  I think that we have all been assessing other alternatives, just haven't made the decision to move for various reasons.

 

And the saga continues. When do we hit 100 pages and a 1000 posts?

 

Now to move on to a week and the other post I started - how to make sure we have recorded our shows.

 

Bruce

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Would anyone officially from Rogers like to make a comment on the last 84 pages worth of frustration??
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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

We have been assured that all that stuff is getting passed on. I don't believe the moderators  here are authorized to report on what steps are being taken and when, even if they knew. Once in a while you'll see an official announcement.


SA8300HD, SA8300SD, DTA50, LG-E410B PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario
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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Well, a bit of humour for the morning - I decided to check my phone logs on the TVRHP - guess that stands for TV Rogers Home Phone (god I hate all these acronyms).  Well, I decided to put the channell 975 in my favourites so I could get there without the clicks menu, apps, TVRHP (three clicks to get there).  I may be remembering wrong, but I thought it was easier before - one of the abcd keys I think, but almost 2 months ago is a long time ago for my brain.

 

Now for the humour - when pushing info to go to set as favourite - on the left is more like this - Big Game HD 6.99 On Demand, She's funny that way HD pay per view 7.99, Good kill HD pay per view 6.99 (from ON demand actually), Boychoir (HD) pay for view 6.99 again, Mad Max Fury Road 6.99, Steve JobsThe Man in the Machine HD 6.99 

 

So more like my call display on my tv is these three somewhat unrelated pay per view on demand movies. If you say so!!

 

Confirms the belief by so many that this more like this algorithms are set up to send us to paid services, not our individual choices.  It can't sent us to preferred choices, because then they would have to have capacity to keep track of our usage patterns, which is an IPTV design on Bell, and on Netflix, Utube, and other services that Espiral provides the product to.  Rogers is not ready for it, so why not just turn the stupid thing off until  you are ready for it to do something real.  It has just become an annnoyance using up screen layout with no benefit to us at all.

 

I challenge Rogers to convince me otherwise.

 

But as I said, it certainly was humourous that even a channel for the app is trying to tell us more like this.  How about shows about Alexander Graham Bell, phone technology, Internet history (maybe that is why we got Steve Jobs - he is a bit connected, I guess you could claim).  Just joking, got to keep my humour in the middle of this insanity.

 

But one good thing, I did get my listings of future recordings for the next week - guess we are left wondering about future recordings until the twice weekly menu updates so on Monday, they weren't there, now on Tuesday, they are.  We must have "faith" and "hope" I guess.  I get it, they are trying to get me to be religious about the miricale of the new box.

 

Ah well, on to therapy, but at least in a good mood.

 

Have a good week everybody.  Hope you enjoyed my humour and hope that Rogers staff have a sense of humour, on breaks from working hard at trying to fix this whole mess.

 

Bruce

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Back on July 28th, I think it was, the updates came down.

 

I started this thread that day when my wife began to complain.  When my wife complains about the one thing she wants to work properly, you respond, or at least I do.  Happy wife, happy life. Thanks Rogers, life is not that happy now.

 

Here is the original post - boy was I naive at that point.

 

" My wife was just moving through the new navigatr and has the following questions, concerns.

 

The first screens for the guide are fine, but the fonts are a bit small, even on a 46 inch TV. We are all getting old, let's not forget us.

 

In the section for listing and managing recordings, the boxes cut off the full names of the shows, don't show dates, would rather have option of old list style with all details right in one spot.

 

When looking at multiple shows, you have to go to each listed show recorded, but there is no reference to the date until you highlight the show. Then this highlighted information on the show is even smaller and I have almost perfect vision after my cataract surgury, and I can barely read it. My wife can't read it at all. You do have the date on the top right that is in a bigger font, but the show information is almost unreadable and my 24 year old daughter who just came in also comment that it is almost unreadable.

 

Is there an option for increasing font size and changing to a list view rather than the boxes on the list of the recordings page. Don't like the box feature or the way the contents view at all for the above reasons. See little or benefit for this change.

 

Otherwise, I am kind of indifferent to the new layout, but do like some features.  I will probably turn off the banner across the bottom off in settings. I can get the same information from the guide.

 

Yes, there is a bit of getting used to change, but some of this change seems to be change for the sake of change. I do like that it takes less clicking to move around though, it just the display formats and font sizes that are creating legitimate problems for my family.

 

BS"

 

Have turned off the banner - bring it back when needed - but unfortunately, it removes your ability to know easily what channel you are on and what the show is about. We have learned since that you can do this by pushing info, then you will get the information - tiny channell and description - again unreadable, but you can also then do recording and more options.  How about a simple, put the channel at the top right corner as you change channels as it used to be.

 

Ahh, this naive request and comment to satisify my wife has led to fights in the house about the Box, why did they do it is the common question, my only answer, don't know, they won't tell us. Then I am told off for spending too much time on this thread trying to help others and gather information about how to use the box efficiently, or at least work around the bugs as best as possible, so I just can't win. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

 

Thanks Rogers for creating so much discension in one household through this absolute mess of layering a new software stack on a legacy box and learning that it just doesn't work well. I have no doubt that Espial and Rogers tested this extensively internally as we have been told, but I also believe that the over reaching goal was push it forward, in spite of the mess.

 

But peace is returning - after 35 years of marriage, there are more real important things we have worked out and we do have one aggreement though - if the next rollout isn't more user friendly with very few bugs and workarounds (we agree there will be some), then we look for options.  That makes me happy because I was ready to go a long time ago. Ahh well, this really is a little thing in life in the big picture - but the problem is that eveytime we turn on our tv, we are confronted by it again, and we often find new surprises to entertain us like the more like this on the Phone call listings.  Got to keep my humour and heal the discension in the home.

 

Just my opinion.  Ahh to go back to July with the old bugs and problems - they didn't compare with this mess at all.

 

Bruce

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@BS wrote:

Well, a bit of humour for the morning - I decided to check my phone logs on the TVRHP - guess that stands for TV Rogers Home Phone (god I hate all these acronyms).  Well, I decided to put the channell 975 in my favourites so I could get there without the clicks menu, apps, TVRHP (three clicks to get there).  I may be remembering wrong, but I thought it was easier before - one of the abcd keys I think, but almost 2 months ago is a long time ago for my brain.

 

Now for the humour - when pushing info to go to set as favourite - on the left is more like this - Big Game HD 6.99 On Demand, She's funny that way HD pay per view 7.99, Good kill HD pay per view 6.99 (from ON demand actually), Boychoir (HD) pay for view 6.99 again, Mad Max Fury Road 6.99, Steve JobsThe Man in the Machine HD 6.99 

 

So more like my call display on my tv is these three somewhat unrelated pay per view on demand movies. If you say so!!

 

===============================================================================
Rogers used to be a respected company, now with Navigatr they're nothing but a bunch of snake oil salesmen trying to peddle their brainless "More like this" crap that has absolutely no connection with anything you were watching.  How far the mightly have fallen.  Kind of sad really.  Well, maybe pathetic is the word I'm looking for.   Smiley Sad
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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Now that Manage My PVR is back on rogersondemand.com I have taken to walking over to my computer, logging on and using THAT to search, record, erase, all my favourite shows. Yes - I have TWO lists again - Recorded and Scheduled!! And no freakin' TILES!

 

How perfectly ridiculous is that - having to sit down at the computer to do something on my TV?  And yet this is EASIER than trying to do it through the remote and Navigatr!!