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I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 202

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Hi Oldyellr:   The way call display works on the PVR with Rogers Home Phone points out ANOTHER way that whoever made the design decisions in the way this thing works was someone who failed his classes in science in school - and certainly never even took a course in logic.


I've said it again, and again, and again - but I'm repeating myself in the hope that SOME DAY Rogers will hear me when I say many of their design decisions in the way the PVR works are just plain STUPID - and demonstrate that the choices of the way this thing works are made by someone who never really uses one of these boxes in real life.


Now some of you may be tired of me repeating myself - but I'm reminded 10 or 20 or 30 times a day of the poor user interface with the NB3.


Specifically, (and sorry to repeat myself) - but for Oldyellr's awareness - with RTN, the Call Display pops up on the bottom of the screen - and 99.99% of the time when the phone rings (and I choose to take the call) - I want to either Pause my PVR - or at the very least Mute what is blaring away on the screen - but it is NOT possible to enter ANY command into the PVR while the Call Display message is on the screen.


So if I want to answer my phone, I have to find my PVR remote control, and then hit the Exit button to erase the phone message from the screen - and THEN I'm able to control my PVR to Pause or Mute.


Now do you REALLY have to be a GENIUS to imagine how the average person will want to react when their phone rings (if they've got Rogers Home Phone and on screen Call Display)?  Am I the ONLY person who has trouble talking on the phone with the TV rattling on in the background?


And does it take a product designer with greater than a grade school education to think that MAYBE it would be nice to at least be able to set an OPTION where the PVR will AUTOMATICALLY Pause when there is an incoming call?


Or am I expecting too much?



Oh - and speaking of STUPID design decisions in the PVR - has anybody else noticed that when you are in the middle of watching a program - and you pause to go into the TV Call Display listings - the stupidly poorly designed PVR DOESN'T REMEMBER THE PLACE YOU FINISHED OFF WATCHING IN THE PROGRAM YOU WERE WATCHING!


So then you have to go back to the place you STARTED watching that program - and FF all the way to where you left off!


Hasn't ANYBODY at Rogers thought this is something that should be fixed before they completely rewrite the front end of the PVR firmware to give us Navigatr that we don't want?

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 3,721

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Thanks for the explanation @billmcintyre. Now, here's an idea for Rogers. Have the PVR or live TV pause when you pick up the phone. I'm sure that could be done, but fix the easy stuff first.

Rogers PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario
I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 304

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@OLDYELLR wrote:

@BS wrote:

In answer, can you pause when a phone call comes in - not until the banner and options for the call disappear. Once the banner for the app disappears, you have control of the tv again. But not hundred percent sure. Never been an issue - most of my calls are telemarketers, so I push the A very fast. Smiley Happy



Okay, I was just wondering because I seem to recall you couldn't pause what you were watching pre-Navigatr, so the call didplay wasn't as useful, but I could be wrong. How about getting rid of the banner with the Exit button and then pausing? (I have neither a Rogers home phone, a Nextbox or Navigatr.)


When I had Rogers Home Phone (recently cancelled, phase 1 of weaning off Rogers) when a call came in and displayed on screen you had to press Exit before you could Pause the program to go answer the phone.  Just like Pause won't work if you're playing a program in the background and you go to view the Guide or My/Scheduled Recordings, you can't Pause the playing program until you first Exit back to ONLY the playback of the recorded program.


Yet another example of a poorly thought out user interface designed by someone who doesn't actually use the product.

I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 304

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@ot_man wrote:


Hi krap.  Thanks for the update.


Yeah I am not going to do a factory reset on my NB3.  Its probably just telemarketers calling me.  Smiley Very Happy  Besides, I still have my old reliable DECT 6 cordless phone that tells me who is calling.   That and I still have  a few days worth of recordings I still need to watch.


Side note...and I admit it is partially my fault... when I go to channel 975 on my NB3, I see the call log.  I went back to my NB2s and still no numbers were listed.  I  looked a little more carefully at my TV screen and it actually said on the bottom of the screen  "Not registered" and that I had to call Rogers.  Hmm... an update that accidentally wiped some of my settings....say it isn't so.




That happened to me several months ago.  I noticed the caller ID banner had stopped appearing.  A Nextbox update on my 9865 had wiped the setting and I had to call Rogers support to get it working again.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 13

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Please bring back the previous version. I have yet to see any benefit of this new Navigatr system yet the list of negatives is endless.

I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 5

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

You don't want the nextbox 3 navigatr. It is a total piece of crap.  Our nextbox 3 is doing what it sounds like yours is doing. It reboots on its own many times a day. Seems to be mostly when watching a recorded program and another  program starts to record. Have tried many cold boots with no success at fixing the problem. Don't want to do a factory reset as we would lose a lot of recordings.  We already lost a bunch of recordings on a nextbox 2 when they rolled out this very inferior guide and user interface. It is very hard to use and is so much worse than the previous one. The stupid boxes instead of lists are a real pain to use. It is very hard to find out what is scheduled to record and what is recorded. The lack of being able to sort the stupid boxes alphabetically and have the setting stay is really stupid. There does not seem to be any redeeming features in this crap called navigatr. I hope they smarten up and roll this back to the last guide and User Interface.

I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 202

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Neil:  Most people won't remember, but back with SARA on the SA 8300 box - you COULD operate the playback controls while you were IN the TV listings.  I found this useful - because I spend 20 to 30 minutes looking through the TV listings every day - and, when possible, I like to multitask - so I would usually watch a shallow, uncomplicated TV show at the same time that I'd be surfing the TV Guide - and during that time there will be at least one commerial I will want to skip - and occasionally, I will want to devote all my attention to looking reading a show description, or looking up more info on a show on my computer (on IMDB) - but I wouldn't want to lose my place in the TV listings (especially when there are 1,000 channels) - so I would pause what I was watching, and concentrate on my computer - and I could keep the TV listings on the screen - but with Rtn, I can't do that.  I have to keep jumping out of the TV listings to pause or resume playing a recorded program. 


This is just one of about 15 useful features SARA had that RTN doesn't - and Navagatr seems to be taking EVEN MORE FEATURES AWAY from us.


A slightly paranoid person may start to ask if Rogers is INTENTIONALLY crippling it's PVR's.  Rogers makes money when we watch commercials and live TV.  They make more profit if we are (subltly) steered towards watching more live TV, rather than recorded programs.


Or maybe they have employees or managers who are too incompetent to produce a reliable, well designed PVR.  Or maybe their managers don't care about us.  If they have a choice between our satisfiction OR their greater profit - what will they choose?



But all this just reminds me of MORE things that Rogers does that peeves me to the max.  I haven't heard anybody else complain about it - but 6 months ago or so - Rogers splattered the TV channel listings with 2 dozen On Demand channels - and they made it IMPOSSIBLE to HIDE those channels.  I'm TIRED of having to page down past dozens of channels that I'LL NEVER WATCH - AND DON'T WANT TO SEE IN MY TV LISTINGS.


And also - a year or two ago - Rogers changed TV program listings from a company that provided accurate competent descriptions that INCLUDED the actors starring on movies - and they gave us dishonest 'advertising' movie listings that were all about tempting customers to watch more movies on VOD because the listings were clearly designed to pull people into watching the movie by describing total trash movies as 'riotously funny' and amazingly eye-rollingly awful descriptions such as 'you'll be arrested for laughing so loud at this hilarious laugh-fest' or something like that.  Some of you may recall reading similar fraudulent glowing reviews of truly pathetic movies.


So what I'm getting at is just how annoying it is when Rogers chooses to change their product in a fashion that makes them MORE money - rather than making there service BETTER.

I'm an Advisor
Posts: 480

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@James1986 wrote:
I do not own any home phone services with rogers. I have T.V (V.I.P), wireless and internet


THx @James1986you have the prefect solution to the problem.

When the phone rings, you can pause or mute or do whatever you want with the TV.

I wonder how those us with a Rogers phone can get the same flexibility you do ?

Hmmm....  I wonder how...

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@billmcintyre  I haven't seen the "feature" you describe where the pvr goes back to the beginning when you go to call listings, I have seensomething similiar when doing other tasks of moving between the PVR recording and other functions (sorry can't remember it, just know what I have to do).


 But interesting and annoying workaround when it happens to me. When I come out of the PVR function and go elsewhere to another function, when I return to the PVR recorded show, where it shows watch, not resume;

Then go back out of the PVR show to the same function I was going to, and then back to PVR and low and behold, the Resume option is back.  For fun, I tried then to go out again, low and behold, I am back to the beginning with Watch, but no resume, go out and back in and it is back to having the resume or watch options again.  I could replicate this over and over again.


In programming pseudo code - here is what I think is going on - If  playback show from PVR is paused, save current location in showing.


Then go to the chosen option outside the PVR functionality, and then when return to PVR showing, ignore saved position, and return to watch show from beginning display options.


If you then choose to fast forward, a new position will be set.


If you enter the show at the beginning, then if you exit out again, when you return, the system detects the saved view point and offers the resume function.


And since it is not consistent, it is most likely related to some conflicting code, or temporary code stored in memory not being deleted, or not being saved into permanent memory.  When it is at that level, you are now up to hardware and machine code and memory storage issues, and an undropped piece of temporary code seems to be the most logical reason why these bugs are inconsistent and not always replicable.  These are some of the most difficult coding issues to debug at times. It is often pure luck and hours of trial and error to find those ones.  Maybe this is why it is proving to be such a complex task to get it right in the first place and trying to fix it and roll it out.  Reset to factory settings, like a reinstall of Windows, is often the only way out of conflicting code that has been added in over time, and one by one, these conflicts build up on each other until you reach the point where tons of things are going wrong.


Something definitely wrong in the implementation of code logic on that one.  Love to see the missing or poorly written if then statements in there that causes it to loop back and forth through two different views of the current paused show.


I tried replicating your situation tonight and couldn't get it to do it, but I also can't replicate what I described above, but it definitely has happened to me various times.  I just put up with it and don't report everyone I see when they happen, because it begins to drive me over the deep end.


And just to add one other bad programming, poor testing, stupid programming or design, poor testing (don't know which step in what is a very rigerous process in order to get it all correct in the end), I notice that once again, unsuscribed shows were showing on my menu - that is a neat one too.  I was looking at some stations on the upper end and there were some greyed out ones, click on Filter channels, show subscribed only and they are gone.  But at some point they will return.  I do like the fact that if you choose pay per view filter, you see the shows and the cost per show listed.  See there are some things I do like.


There is something seriously wrong in the programming of the box to deal with saved options and settings and some settings as we know that don't even work.  I like Bill have said this over and over, but it because we here nothing back, and maybe, maybe, if we keep repeating it, someone will move on all this.  I hear they are, but as a user, we are asked to be patient.  As Bill said, hard to be patient when you are confronted by these unpredictable things yet once again.  My wife was going ballistic today (she doesn't do it often - gentle ballistic I will admit), because a show she had set up to record was being recorded.  I advised her that she basically needs to look at her advanced recordings each day and make sure they are still there as set up, and keep track to see if it happened.  She caught this one 5 minutes in.


Another advantage of IPTV - yes time shifting is basically unnessary, or recording is not always necessary unless you want to keep it for a while because you can go back 14 days and get a show to play.  That is Bell's selling point, and if Rogers is going IPTV, then just tell us. I have said it before, but Cisco designed these boxes to facilitate the transition from QAM unidirectional streaming of live TV to IPTV, dual direction, on demand viewing of live tv that is stored on video servers on demand.  Have to wonder, did Rogers try to do this one on their own or with some company that claimed they could do it, since this whole division has been sold by Cisco - It is not that Cisco is dropping IPTV, they are just going back to what they do best - the infrastructure, routers, transmission protocols, server farms, QoS and so forth, and working with the new company who will handle set boxes.  I suspect either a rushed job on Cisco's part, or the new company during the transition, or a third party job led to this whole mess.  Just analyzing what I believe has happened based upon my knowledge of the industry, the current state of Cisco, and the timing of this whole situation.  Even the 8 channel recording feature is out of the typical scope of the Cisco 9800 boxes which are 6 QAM and 2 IPTV.


But just think, if we go IPTV, no need for time shifting in the true sense in terms of time zones, no concern about a show recording late or ending the recording early, and hey, you can even do Facebook, Twitter and other apps.  Probably why there is a whole drive to put the remote onto tablets and phones.  Imagine doing that on a standard remote.  And who knows where the delay on putting the whole management and remote features back on the PC.    Just my continued theorizing, in absence of any clear message from Rogers. All we know is they are working on it and are listening to all of our concerns.  In the FAQ's, there is even vague reference to the things that are not working and that they aim to improve it.


As I final thought, I would love (as a programmer, designer, and tester over the years) to see the protocols, in particular for testing.  A thorough testing requires people to have protocols to test every feature in the full feature set of the device, inputs and outputs.  To do a full testing, each feasable task needs to be tested, even those that were not intended to be changed.  I still hold my ground on the belief that there could not have been a full testing protocol, or there wouldn't be so many of us having similiar problems.  It is not reasonable that the testers could have run into these unless, possibly they were working from clean out of the box devices, with fully tested and installed upgrades from factory reset. This is not what users have in front of them.  Our boxes have a history of storage, setting configurations, etc, but I guess they did actually test the users boxes with all the different uses and configuration (we did it and it didn't work out well).  Please don't ever do that to us again.  Get volunteer testers,  certainly many of us have volunteered willingly.


So I hope that they are moving along with wherever they are going with this implementation, and that we those with the crippled boxes will see a move to truly make our viewing pleasure easy, better, and more efficient.  It is none of those right now for sure.


Have a good night every body.


I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 19

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Rogers must have someone that understands this new UI enough to fix it. Seriously   I am being driven insane by the UI sending me back to the "most recent episode" rather than the THE ONE I JUST FINISHED WATCHING AND WANT TO DELETE.  


Oh - another fun development.   The red dot has disappeared from the infamous "tile" display  The dot  only shows up inside the "scheduled" tab - inside the tile.   


Please fix this UI