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I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 153

Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@roxandtreez wrote:

My only intention in putting all the issues into one post was to help the community.  In fact, I was hoping to do posts which outline the workaround for as many of the issues as I could.  I found the Facebook complaints and the rote responses from Rogers especially upsetting.  Assuming there will not be a rollback, there needs to be an easy way to share "best practices" on how to get by with Navigatr as best as we can, at least until there is a new release with fixes or enhancements.  Unfortunately, to make it easy for people to find the workarounds, they would need to appear in the "sticky" section of the thread, and that would require cooperation from a moderator I guess.

 

Do you support doing this, or do you think Rogers should be the ones documenting workaround instructions? 


 

Your intentions are noble, but in a nutshell my position now is this: if you or someone else or Rogers posts a page full of workarounds, it just makes it easier for whoever is in charge of Navigatr to say "Let's move ahead with Navigatr rollouts, and if anyone has any issues we'll just direct them to the How-Tos & Workarounds pages."

 

I think every customer complaining to Rogers that they can't turn on CC during playback of a recording - is a good thing..

I think every customer complaining to Rogers that they just deleted the wrong episode in a Series folder - is a good thing..

.. and so on and so on. The more complaints the better. Not only does it repeat the message, it costs Rogers money as staff "wasting" time listening, reading, responding, etc means they're focused on Navigatr issues rather than all the other usual stuff.

 

Complaints are an impetus for change, and a storm of complaints about Navigatr are an impetus for change to come as quickly as possible, and most importantly before Navigatr rolls out to new areas. Workarounds mitigate complaints.

 


@shan-man wrote:

You've both been keeping lists of issues. I just spoke with an advisor at the Office of the President and she said I could email her a list of issues. I was going to start with the @roxandtreez list, add a couple of my own, and send along. Are there any additional issues you'd like me to add?

 

 

No.

Did they say who are they going to pass the list on to? Some unnamed Rogers executive in charge of the Navigatr project?.. the same guy(?) who approved it for release? Or maybe the big boss Guy Laurence? Whatever they say, they're not going to be directly passing on to the Navigatr team.

 

Listen, 2 or 3 weeks ago I spoke with the person the Agents in the OOP report to (he called me). He told me they were taking things very seriously and the Navigatr team was already working on "all" the bugs. I asked which ones. Drive wiping, PIN lockout, blank Settings screens, oh - and he may even have mentioned font size. I said there were literally dozens of others posted on the forums/on FB/on Twitter and I'd been making a list since before Navigatr even launched, based on screenshots and promo videos Rogers posted to Youtube. And I stressed that lthough they may each be minor complaints, collectively they quickly add up to a horrible user experience. This was WEEKS AGO!

 

Did he ask me to email him what I had? No. Did he ask for examples? No. Did he think it would be a good idea for someone at Rogers to gather all this info? Yes. Did he tell me they already had someone "on it"? No (although it's possible they already did, he certainly never gave any indication that was the case). Did he agree with me it would be a good idea to provide us customers a proper method for reporting bugs? (remember these forums are 'user to user'.. and the Idea Box although 'there' is not designed with bug reporting in mind). Yes. Has anything happened about that since that conversation? No.

 

I realize full well that changes to Navigatr won't just happen overnight, but when your hands are tied and can't do anything else, what you should you do? ("you" being a Rogers executive with a name and position of accountability). You communicate! You communicate an acknowledgement of the problem, you communication your intentions, you provide an anticipated timeline (longer is better, that way you can come in ahead of schedule), and if you value your customers, you reach out to them and seek their advice. After all, we're all in this together (they created the mess, we're in it!).

 

So where are we now, 4 weeks after launch?

As posted over the last couple of days, some of us just got an email from a marketing company Rogers hired, asking us to complete a survey that:

- asks us to rate, selected feature by selected feature, screen by screen - how much *easier* Navigatr has made our tv viewing/PVR use compared to the old guide. (Seriously?)

- asks us to rank our 3 favourite features/areas of Navigatr (Hahaha!)

- asks us to rank our 3 least favourite features/areas of Navigatr.

- asks only 1 question about "issues" and it only asked 'Yes/No' if you'd experienced issues during the update.

- doesn't mention "More like this" (which I maintain is primary reason for Navigatr's being)

- doesn't allow for entry of comments / explanations.

 

.. in other words, it's a waste of time. It proves that whoever commissioned it hasn't been listening or at least doesn't believe what they've been hearing for the last 4 weeks.

 

So, @roxandtreez@ & @shan-man - you're both free to do whatever you feel best, but until Rogers proves they're willing act like professionals who value the feedback they've already been given, I do not suggest giving them any more "help". At least not for free.

 


 

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@theClubHopper wrote:

@roxandtreez wrote:

My only intention in putting all the issues into one post was to help the community......


So, @roxandtreez@ & @shan-man - you're both free to do whatever you feel best, but until Rogers proves they're willing act like professionals who value the feedback they've already been given, I do not suggest giving them any more "help". At least not for free.

 


 


Here is my understanding of where we are:

 

1. Rogers is very aware of the major, minor and perceived deficiencies in Navigatr

    thanks in part to a self-selected very vocal group (us) and because many others are Bellhopping.

 

2. They are giving themselves a bit of time with a customer survey, to verify the priority of things to fix.

    They already know, separate scheduled/recorded-recording, font sizes, tiles (?)

      (but Rogers loves tiles for this revenue potential). They likely need hard-data to convince top mgmt. 

 

3. If Rogers was going to roll-back, it would have done so by now.

 

4. Rogers knows that the improved Navigatr must be superior to the old system, in the customers eyes.

 

5. So, IMHO that is our opportunity to advise Rogers on what will make Navigatr, GREAT.

 

e.g. There were very useful features in SARA that were dropped,

e.g. [last] worked with recorded programs, not just live channels.

So one could easily go between a live show during commercial breaks) and one recording or already recorded with one button.

 

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

  • While we strive for the lofty goals of the last post,

 

The   * red dot * did not appear in a tile while it was recording a progam tonight.

This happened on the NB3 that Roger swapped for mine a week a ago. 

 

Rogers, how could this happen?  I rebooted the box  earlier in the day.

 

So maybe there are some very very basic problems with Navigatr.

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@park:

 


@krap wrote:

5. So, IMHO that is our opportunity to advise Rogers on what will make Navigatr, GREAT.


 

I have to agree with @theClubHopper, we'd just be encouraging them. The individuals on this board who have been discussing the design flaws and technical problems with Navigatr have given the impression that they are knowledgable about user interface design and PVR functionality (up to and including programming), to the point that if I were responsible for Naive-gatr, I'd be contacting a select few and asking for their candid opinions in detail. I would also be demanding an explanation from the so-called design team about the obtuse user experience and lack of functionality evident in the finished product.

 

If Rogers had hired an outside development team, I'd be busy stopping payment and insisting on bug-fixes and re-design at their expense.

 

In my opinion the design is irretrievably terrible and fixes would only make sense if the user interface was rolled back. This doesn't mean that any hardware-specific programming upgrades would necessarily have to be changed, but as a fix, or as a stop-gap until a new UI can be designed, the functionality should be tied back into the old UI.

 

I notice that the UI has its own version number, so I'm sure it's a front-end that is hooked into the PVR hardware commands. There is no reason, except money and face-saving, that the old UI couldn't be reinstated.

 

The one thing I can't understand is, where's the 'upgrade'?!? What has actually been improved over the previous UI and command structure? I mean, the functionality is the same, as far as I can see, but with fewer user-selectable choices, and a *much* less intuitive UI.

 

The story that this was done to somehow enable IP TV delivery is nonsense. This is all happening in the set-top box, so either it can or cannot handle IPTV in the hardware. It's amateur-hour programming, and there are a number of people on this board who could fix it by telling the programmers what needs to be fixed.

 

So yes, no need to 'help' them. They're doing this to themselves.

 

Regards,

Mr. A

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've Been Around
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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Before the latest guide upgrade my NextBox used to auto-tune it self to the channel i set a reminder to. I've just recently noticed it is not doing that anymore. I feel if there is a going to be an upgrade to your service features that work should stay on the box.

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

I would love to see someone with more wherewithall than me to record themselves attempting some basic stuff with the PVR and recording all the failings into a video. Then post that video to YouTube and link to it here so that we could all try to get it "out there" and viewed by as many people as possible. I'm absolutely positive that there are Rogers management personnel that look upon these threads as just the rantings of a bunch of technologically illiterate old f***ts who don't know how to use a remote.

 

A picture is worth a thousand words, and all that...

 

 

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@Mister_A wrote:

@park:

 


@krap wrote:

5. So, IMHO that is our opportunity to advise Rogers on what will make Navigatr, GREAT.


 

I have to agree with @theClubHopper, we'd just be encouraging them. The individuals on this board who have been discussing the design flaws and technical problems with Navigatr have given the impression that they are knowledgable about user interface design and PVR functionality (up to and including programming), to the point that if I were responsible for Naive-gatr, I'd be contacting a select few and asking for their candid opinions in detail. I would also be demanding an explanation from the so-called design team about the obtuse user experience and lack of functionality evident in the finished product.

 

If Rogers had hired an outside development team, I'd be busy stopping payment and insisting on bug-fixes and re-design at their expense.

 

In my opinion the design is irretrievably terrible and fixes would only make sense if the user interface was rolled back. This doesn't mean that any hardware-specific programming upgrades would necessarily have to be changed, but as a fix, or as a stop-gap until a new UI can be designed, the functionality should be tied back into the old UI.

 

I notice that the UI has its own version number, so I'm sure it's a front-end that is hooked into the PVR hardware commands. There is no reason, except money and face-saving, that the old UI couldn't be reinstated.

 

The one thing I can't understand is, where's the 'upgrade'?!? What has actually been improved over the previous UI and command structure? I mean, the functionality is the same, as far as I can see, but with fewer user-selectable choices, and a *much* less intuitive UI.

 

The story that this was done to somehow enable IP TV delivery is nonsense. This is all happening in the set-top box, so either it can or cannot handle IPTV in the hardware. It's amateur-hour programming, and there are a number of people on this board who could fix it by telling the programmers what needs to be fixed.

 

So yes, no need to 'help' them. They're doing this to themselves.

 

Regards,

Mr. A

  

Agree with most of what you say.

 

Unfortunately, Rogers is not taking the simple and obvious roll-back path. Why not ? 

There must be some other goal here, like the promise of future increased revenue/profit.

But that's now gone (at least for us in the July 28 disaster zones) cause customers are going elsewhere, not just for TV, but for other services as well.

 

It is definitely amateur hour, not as much in programming as it more or less hangs together, but in fundamental design errors (or choices) that show a complete lack of understanding of the varied ways people use PVRs.

The software change to mark a program as recorded as soon as the recording starts vs at the end is trivial, but the understanding of why that's vitally important is not. 

 

Cisco selling off the business to Technicolor just before July 28 likely had something to do with this fiasco, perhaps new inexpierenced people took over,  or ???

 

 

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@Newfie1962 wrote:

Before the latest guide upgrade my NextBox used to auto-tune it self to the channel i set a reminder to. I've just recently noticed it is not doing that anymore.



Ah yes, as described in more detail in Post #114.

I will now direct you to the Rogers 'Share a Concern' webpage so that you may voice your displeasure and perhaps seek some form of compensation for the frustrations and inconvenience that the Navigatr "upgrade" has caused you.


@Newfie1962 wrote:
I feel if there is a going to be an upgrade to your service features that work should stay on the box.

Agreed. Now if only we could figure out why that's not important to Rogers!

 

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

I was curious about the comment by @park regarding "Rogers liking tiles because of the potential revenue". Could you elaborate on this comment.  Personally, I don't care for the tiles!

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Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Hi Iris42:  The NB2 and NB3 have a feature that you can turn on and off (with the old RTN software) that has Rogers suggest "More like this" when you delete a TV program.  The PVR will suggest (supposedly) similar programs to the one you just watched - but many of these programs that are suggested are on VOD channels - and you have to pay for some of them, and some of the other programs are on channels that you don't subscribe to - so in order to watch them you have to order those channels.

 

With Navigatr, I believe this "More like this" 'feature' is more blatant, and, I'm not sure - but can it even be turned off with Navigatr? 

 

The "More like this" feature is something that Rogers probably introduced because it probably makes more money for them - and sucks more money out of each consumer than without that feature.

 

And without Rogers telling us WHY they are introducing Navigatr, some people have speculated that it's because it will make them more money.

 

But speaking of WHY Rogers is introducing Navigatr - I asked their tech guys during multiple calls - "Why?" and the second guy I talked to said it was because Navigatr will be compatible with the future introduction of IPTV.  I didn't mention that info here much yet because I wondered if the tech geek might have just been telling me what he thought I wanted to hear - because during my first call to them I specifically asked if that was the reason for the introduction - and it's obvious that Rogers takes notes about what you talk to them about when you call.  I don't know if I'm being too paranoid - but I'd like to hear from others here that they've been told that this is the reason for Navigatr being dumped on us before I'm completely convinced it is the true reason.

 

Navigatr is certainly NO UPGRADE.