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NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

theClubHopper
I'm a Reliable Contributor

The new Navigatr PVR software rolled out this morning, in select areas (Newmarket, Oshawa, Ajax, Brampton, Mississauga and Milton). I live in Aurora, and I guess that lumps us in with Newmarket, because my 8642HD's update started around 3:10AM this morning, and completed about 40 minutes later.

 

I should be happy, right?

Nope! The update WIPED MY DRIVE. It now shows "0% full". And none of my Scheduled Recordings were carried over.

 

I rebooted.. because you never know, might just be a first-time startup glitch. Nope, they're gone.

 

In anticipation of the update happening this AM, shortly after midnight, while still on the old Guide software, I took a video with my phone of me scrolling through my Recordings, so I'd know what I was missing (so I could try to find as much of it as I could online, if the need arose). My 500GB drive was 84.8% full, with over 100 recordings. Now it's empty.

 

I was able to do an online chat with a Rogers tech (@4:45AM) to alert them to the issue, and to implore them to stop the rollout of the software immediately - for everyone's sake. Of course, my complaint was the first they'd heard of it. "The software was tested extensively..." I was told. They always say that though..

 

Screenshots:

Before the Navigatr update:

 

4 hrs later, after Navigatr was installed:

 

Don't know what will happen next, but I will be amazed if they can somehow recover my drive.

 

Post if the same happened to you.

 

260 REPLIES 260

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

 

So, here's the update. After about 4 calls to Rogers, and a visit from a technician I finally had to return my PVR back to Rogers to exchange it because it wouldn't do a factory reboot. This all happened last night and I finally got to watch TV without having to unlock parental controls or deal with described video for the first time in two weeks.

 

Now tonight, a mere 24 hours after all these problems got resolved, I get a robo call from Rogers saying that they are going to push through another software upload on Monday with another factory reset which means that - yet again - I get to have all of my recordings erased and settings deleted. I called them and they said that there was no choice, that this had to be done, even though my problem was resolved.

 

WHAT IS WRONG with this company? 

 

To this point, I've been relatively calm and polite about this whole inciden  with them, but now I've had it. I finally insisted on getting some compensation for being put through this, and I got the offer of $15 and 6 free movie rentals, but that was only after I had to raise my voice. Oh and I still have to call back after the update on Monday in order to get the credit.

 

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

SDRF
I Plan to Stick Around

I sometimes seriously think that Rogers does NO software testing. This software is way slower ( espcially if you have Whole Home PVR ) and has signifigant issues that should have shown up if it was TESTED.

 

Won’t hold settings from ‘Most Recent’ to ‘Alphabetical’.

Can’t erase more than one program at a time.

‘LAST’ button no longer takes you back to the program.

When you scroll to the end of the list, you can’t keep going back to the beginning.  You have to click one line at a time all the way back.

Info is so small print I can’t read it.

Sometimes ‘RESUME’ is not available so if you have been watching a program and exit, it makes you start back at the beginning.

Extremely slow.

Sometimes won’t delete a program.

Large Icons are a pain.  The list was better.

 

And the update wipes some boxes.  Good job Rogers.

 

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

park
I'm an Advisor

@SDRF wrote:

I sometimes seriously think that Rogers does NO software testing. This software is way slower ( espcially if you have Whole Home PVR ) and has signifigant issues that should have shown up if it was TESTED.

 

Won’t hold settings from ‘Most Recent’ to ‘Alphabetical’.

Can’t erase more than one program at a time.

‘LAST’ button no longer takes you back to the program.

When you scroll to the end of the list, you can’t keep going back to the beginning.  You have to click one line at a time all the way back.

Info is so small print I can’t read it.

Sometimes ‘RESUME’ is not available so if you have been watching a program and exit, it makes you start back at the beginning.

Extremely slow.

Sometimes won’t delete a program.

Large Icons are a pain.  The list was better.

 

And the update wipes some boxes.  Good job Rogers.

 


Great summary. Agree 100%. 

 

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

neilpalmer400
I'm a Trusted Contributor

@SDRF wrote:

I sometimes seriously think that Rogers does NO software testing. This software is way slower ( espcially if you have Whole Home PVR ) and has signifigant issues that should have shown up if it was TESTED.

 

Won’t hold settings from ‘Most Recent’ to ‘Alphabetical’.

Can’t erase more than one program at a time.

‘LAST’ button no longer takes you back to the program.

When you scroll to the end of the list, you can’t keep going back to the beginning.  You have to click one line at a time all the way back.

Info is so small print I can’t read it.

Sometimes ‘RESUME’ is not available so if you have been watching a program and exit, it makes you start back at the beginning.

Extremely slow.

Sometimes won’t delete a program.

Large Icons are a pain.  The list was better.

 

And the update wipes some boxes.  Good job Rogers.

 


You forgot to mention:

- New RECordings don't show up until recording has finished, so harder to find/play while recording

- Ridiculous choice of showing REMAINING time when viewing, so a moving target if recording is still ongoing

- No separation of Scheduled recordings & Recorded programs

- No easy way to check what is scheduled to record by date

- Positions to newest program after viewing one in a series so you end up deleting one you haven't viewed

- And to re-emphasize, the font is too small to see

 

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

SDRF
I Plan to Stick Around

You're right! I ALL those things are valid and I'm sure we forgot some.

 

AND we pay Rogers to do the BETA testing for them. Ridiculous!

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

park
I'm an Advisor

@SDRF wrote:

You're right! I ALL those things are valid and I'm sure we forgot some.

 

AND we pay Rogers to do the BETA testing for them. Ridiculous!


 

Info about Roger's President, Guy Laurence, from his Rogers BIO online.

 

"He is a strong executive who takes decisive action in complex, capital intensive businesses. He is passionate about the customer and this thinking guides his decision-making and his approach to operational excellence."

 

Mr. Laurence, its high-time to live up to those words or resign !

Your customers are equally passionate about Rogers latest attempt  to cripple their PVRs.

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

OLDYELLR
I'm a Senior Advisor

I did read on Digital Home from one customer who was told the Navigatr disaster was actually created by Cisco. That makes more sense because they built the Nextboxes. I can see Rogers taking responsibility and not pointing fingers, but it's Rogers who did the inadequate testing before releasing it. Someone also mentioned that Cisco just sold the set top box business http://fortune.com/2015/07/23/cisco-sells-set-top-box-business-technicolor-600-million/ and that may have left discontented employees and diminished support. Knowing a bit of background could explain why the Navigatr rollout is struggling.


Rogers PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

park
I'm an Advisor

Roll back time! 

3/4 of Rogers NB2s & NB3s are still on RTN !

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

jays77
I'm a Trusted Contributor

@krap wrote:

Roll back time! 

3/4 of Rogers NB2s & NB3s are still on RTN !

 

 

 

 

 


YES! YES! YES!

 

I still haven't been hit with the Navigatr boondoggle and from what I have been reading here I don't ever want to see it on my box. (8642HD-PVR)

 

I am a senior, not technologigcally inclined, and two things are essential for me.

 

1. Symplicity

I was thinking of that thiss morning as I scheduled my recordnings for this evening.  It was so easy.  Just highlight the program in the guide, press OK, press record, press save. On to next show and repeat. 

Next, press list twice, scan the results to make sure there were no conflicks then get on with my day.

 

2. Font that is reasonably easy for aging vison to read.

My vison is not all that bad so the present font size is adequete.  There are times I struggle to read some of the program discription, but for the most part I can get by. Anything smaller or less visible would be useless to me and I'm sure many others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

theClubHopper
I'm a Reliable Contributor


The Toronto Star's Ellen Roseman published a piece today (August 14th 2015) on the Navigatr fiasco in her "On Your Side" column.

 

She writes that a customer contacted her, she contacted Rogers, then Rogers contacted the customer and he negotiated "a three-month credit to his cable fees" and that he had "already started to review TV packages from Bell."

 

For the record: that customer was not me.

 

Ellen asks: "Why did some customers lose the precious programming they hoped to keep? " - a question we've all been asking for over 2 weeks with no real answer. Ellen didn't get much further.

 

She writes that Rogers' (Media) Spokesman Aaron Lazarus told her:




"the Navigatr upgrade didn’t lead to programs being erased. It was human error in using – or navigating – the new system. “For a small percentage of people, items were deleted from their PVR. We can’t get the shows back. That should not have happened and we apologize,” he said."

That is unfortunately an absolutely typical example of the nonsensical type of replies we've been given. Many of us suspected from the beginning that our recordings weren't erased, they just weren't accessible - that covers the first part sentence in the above quote. The 2nd sentence, I still have no clue what it means.

 

Whatever happened the result was the same: our drives were as good as "wiped", showing 0% full - and Rogers had 0 intention of helping us recover our recordings.

 

Yesterday, after much effort, I was finally was able to get a hold of the copy of the message I'd sent Rogers on the evening of Tuesday July 28th (unlike most webforms, Rogers' doesn't send provide the customer a copy of their message automatically). The 3rd paragraph of my urgent message was as follows:


theClubHopper wrote, on July 28th:

At this time, Tuesday evening, it is not clear whether everyone's drives were actually re-formatted during the update, or whether the archived recordings are simply unseen/unavilable to Navigatr. We (affected customers) would like to know. We'd also like to know why it happened and what if anything can be done to not only rectify this this time but in the future - because there is a history of this very thing happening during major updates.

 

And then we learn yesterday that *some* Nextbox2/8642HD owners will be having their drives "wiped" again on Monday 17th, and that (quote) "this reset is unavoidable".

 

Should we consider that a pre-planned unavoidable "human error" too?

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

 

There are many things that have puzzled/annoyed me about this whole Navigatr roll out, but one of the big ones is why they had to put us through all this in the first place?  Is there any feature that Navigatr gives us that we didn't already have? There are tons of negatives about the new interface, but I haven't heard any advantage or new feature.

 

 

I think I'd be willing to forget about all of this if Rogers came out and announced that this all happened because they cut back on their software testing budget to help pay for their baseball team AND that same baseball team went on to World Series. Then I'd feel like I was part of the victory. But that's about the only scenario I can see where I'd let this pass.

 

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

SDRF
I Plan to Stick Around
Very well said. Watching Price pitch may be worth it. I'm afraid to PVR it though.

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

billmcintyre
I'm a Trusted Contributor

Hi Dave. That is a question I would like answered too. I've been very close to calling Rogers tech support - and calling back again and again and again until I get an answer.

My suspicion is that this might be related to the fact that Cisco sold their set top box division a while ago. Cisco made the NB2 and NB3 boxes, and I assume they were significantly responsible for the production of the software/firmware/interface/IPG.  Rogers then may have had to make other arrangements for any updates to the interface - although I believe the new Navigatr is simply wallpaper slapped over the existing RTN code.  We will see better just how deep the changes go into the NB software if there are any fixes to long existing RTN bugs with the introduction to everyone of the Navigatr "upgrade." 🙂

Another possibility, although I think less likely, is that some time in the next year, Rogers will likely be switching over to IPTV, where we get TV programs from the internet - and I've wondered if this new guide will be more compatible with that. Not likely, but I've wondered - maybe.

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**


@billmcintyre wrote:

Hi Dave. That is a question I would like answered too. I've been very close to calling Rogers tech support - and calling back again and again and again until I get an answer.

My suspicion is that this might be related to the fact that Cisco sold their set top box division a while ago. Cisco made the NB2 and NB3 boxes, and I assume they were significantly responsible for the production of the software/firmware/interface/IPG.  Rogers then may have had to make other arrangements for any updates to the interface - although I believe the new Navigatr is simply wallpaper slapped over the existing RTN code.  We will see better just how deep the changes go into the NB software if there are any fixes to long existing RTN bugs with the introduction to everyone of the Navigatr "upgrade." 🙂

Another possibility, although I think less likely, is that some time in the next year, Rogers will likely be switching over to IPTV, where we get TV programs from the internet - and I've wondered if this new guide will be more compatible with that. Not likely, but I've wondered - maybe.


 

As a wise friend used to say,  "Do not confuse incompetence with conspiracy !"

 

Often when there is a sale/takeover the good managers and the brain trust leave.

Perhaps they were given an impossible  drop-dead date to "finish the upgrade"

e.g. before the company was sold and many were to be packaged off.  

Plus the set-top group is in Atlanta Georgia, the buyer is HQed in France. 

These are all red-flags that things can (and in this case likely did) easily fall apart during the transition.

 

Is it just a coincidence that Cisco sold the division on July 23 and Navikrap appeared on July 28 ?

 

Rogers charged ahead with an untried product from essentially a  NEW supplier, or at least one undergoing massive change.  I wonder if any other cable co. got caught in the same trap ?

 

 

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

Ontario
I Plan to Stick Around

Dear Rogers - Important that you read this post:  In the Saturday August 15, 2015 Toronto Star, front page of the Business Section, there is a story about the Navigatr troubles.  It quotes the Rogers representative as saying the "human error" that caused the problem with wiped drives was their customers' human error in using or navigating with the PVR.  The representative did not attribute it to a human error in the Rogers rollout.  This is a completely unacceptable slap in the face of so many customers who only turned on their machines after the download, and pressed "List" on their remote controller to see their recordings, and found the display on the TV screen showed - no recordings - and Your PVR is 0% full.  This is unacceptable.   Possibly some people may have inadvertently deleted all recordings, but for many of us impacted, it was certainly not the case.

 

Please contact the Toronto Star to retract the statement and apologize to your customers.  Please also appropriately coach the representative who conveyed the incorrect information to the Star.    Thank you,

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

neilpalmer400
I'm a Trusted Contributor

@Ontario wrote:

Dear Rogers - Important that you read this post:  In the Saturday August 15, 2015 Toronto Star, front page of the Business Section, there is a story about the Navigatr troubles.  It quotes the Rogers representative as saying the "human error" that caused the problem with wiped drives was their customers' human error in using or navigating with the PVR.  The representative did not attribute it to a human error in the Rogers rollout. 


 

Besides, if that were true it would certainly be an indictment of how badly the user interface was designed (and it IS) that hundreds of users could, in a few clicks, erase all their recorded & scheduled programs and settings. 

We DO know it IS so badly designed that you can easily delete the wrong series recording after viewing one of the programs.

 

The customers are suffering with the Navigatr virus, and Rogers spokesmen are suffering with foot in mouth disease.

 

 

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

SDRF
I Plan to Stick Around
Guys the real issues is that Rogers doesn't care. They have done the math and determined they can make more money with software that doesn't work then they can if they pony up and fix the problem. But we'll give them a community forum to vent so we shouldn't lose enough to be concerned.

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

RogersStrick
Community Manager (Retired)
Community Manager (Retired)

Hi community,

 

Many of you saw the article in the Star this weekend about challenges with the rollout of the new Navigatr guide and unfortunately were left with the impression Rogers is blaming customers for the loss of PVR recordings. We apologize for the confusion because we know very well it was our human error. What we told the Star was that it was not an error in the coding of the guide itself, but a human error in our deployment of it that led to challenges for some customers with older set top boxes. It was our human error that caused those boxes to lose their saved shows, for example, and we are sorry this happened.

 

When our customers started to let us know about the issue we paused the rollout to make sure we could identify what had happened. We have now identified the error and fixed our process so that we can successfully continue the rollout of Navigatr in the coming weeks.

 

Thank you for being patient as we continue to focus our efforts on improving your TV experience.

 

RogersStrick

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

SDRF
I Plan to Stick Around

I am really puzzled as to why you continue to roll out this defective product. If you have read the posts in this forum, which you obviously have, you are aware of the myriad other issues with the product. Yet not only are you continuing the roll out but are advertising it as an improvement?? Someone at Rogers somewhere has GOT to have some kind of conscience?

 

STOP THE ROLL OUT  AND FIX THE SOFTWARE.

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

neilpalmer400
I'm a Trusted Contributor

I presume this means rollout of the code as is, complete with the MANY bugs and deficiencies reported here and on other forums, and with a small font illegible to those with old/tired eyes, visual disability, or less than perfect vision (a large portion of your Cable TV customer base), or without at least a 55" HD TV ?

Re: NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

shan-man
I Plan to Stick Around
@RogersStrick,

Thank you for your message. I was really hoping that it was a misunderstanding between Rogers and The Toronto Star and I'm happy you've corrected it.

Now that that has been dealt with though, we still need to stop the rollout of Navigatr. Nobody wants it. It makes our PVRs next to useless. Your customers hate it. Please please give us back the old software.
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