NAVIGATR UPDATE **WIPED MY DRIVE**

[theClubHopper]

The new Navigatr PVR software rolled out this morning, in select areas (Newmarket, Oshawa, Ajax, Brampton, Mississauga and Milton). I live in Aurora, and I guess that lumps us in with Newmarket, because my 8642HD's update started around 3:10AM this morning, and completed about 40 minutes later.

I should be happy, right?

Nope! The update WIPED MY DRIVE. It now shows "0% full". And none of my Scheduled Recordings were carried over.

I rebooted.. because you never know, might just be a first-time startup glitch. Nope, they're gone.

In anticipation of the update happening this AM, shortly after midnight, while still on the old Guide software, I took a video with my phone of me scrolling through my Recordings, so I'd know what I was missing (so I could try to find as much of it as I could online, if the need arose). My 500GB drive was 84.8% full, with over 100 recordings. Now it's empty.

I was able to do an online chat with a Rogers tech (@4:45AM) to alert them to the issue, and to implore them to stop the rollout of the software immediately - for everyone's sake. Of course, my complaint was the first they'd heard of it. "The software was tested extensively..." I was told. They always say that though..

Screenshots:

Before the Navigatr update:

4 hrs later, after Navigatr was installed:

Don't know what will happen next, but I will be amazed if they can somehow recover my drive.

Post if the same happened to you.

[charlj3]

The new Navigator wiped out everything on my PVR, lost many hours of programs, called Rogers they offered $25credit. No notice was provided, no oppurtunity to back up the PVR. I was told that there was nothing that Rogers could do. 

What right does Rogers have to erase my PVR???

Asked for a call back and have heard nothing in more than a week,

[waynev]

Well I'm another victim of this botched software "upgrade". I own an older PVR (8300HD) and lost perhaps 50 hours of recorded programming - about 85% of a 1 TB hard drive. Most of this was older programming long longer accessible elsewhere. I'm so . . This is the last straw for me.

I've decided this is the end of Rogers for me. By Sept. I plan to cancel all my Rogers services (TV, Internet and home phone) and move to a combination of:
TekSavvy for unlimited Internet service
Netflix for some content
A HD over the air antenna for some local channels
and a Kodi powered media player unit for some other content

Hasta la vista Rogers

[neilpalmer400]

waynev,

This is REALLY strange, because Rogers states on the Navigatr web page at

https://www.rogers.com/web/support/tv/nextbox/9087?setLanguage=en

I don’t have a NextBox set top box; will I be receiving these upgrades?          

NextBox 2.0 and NextBox 3.0 in Ontario are the only boxes that will be receiving these upgrades.

[RogersDarrell]

Hello @waynev,

@neilpalmer400 is correct. The older SA8300 has the SARA Guide and is not Navigatr compatible.

Can you confirm you perhaps do not have a failed hard drive? Are you able to set and view new recordings?

RogersDarrell

[OLDYELLR]

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@waynev wrote:
Well I'm another victim of this botched software "upgrade". I own an olderPVR (8300HD) and lost perhaps 50 hours of recorded programming - about 85% of a 1 TB hard drive. Most of this was older programming long longer accessible elsewhere. I'm so . . This is the last straw for me.

---

Well, that really is strange. This Navigatr firmware update did not go to the SARA PVRs, only the Nextboxes. I've seen nothing messed up on my 8300HD. More likely you've had a hard drive problem.

However, I did see something strange last night. I decided to record the political debate on City TV from 8:00 to 10:00. About 15 minutes in, I tried watching the recording, but it wouldn't play. I got this strange error screen (wish I'd taken a picture of it now). I went to watching it live for a bit and got some freezing and hesitation when I tried to rewind. After a few minutes I got so disgusted and bored with the debate I stopped and erased the recording and shut the TV off. No problem with other recordings later in the evening.

[waynev]

Sorry, I stand corrected. I have a 8642HD. My bad...

Still lost all my recordings though.

[OLDYELLR]

@waynev, that is very disturbing! Where are you located? Is it in the first area where Navigatr was deployed? I believe Rogers pushed another update there with a supposed fix. From what I can see in my diagnostics, the last boot was June 24/2015, probably from a power interruption. I don't know if this is where to look, but on Page 3 it says "FLASH: DVR1.9.0_8300_MR.HR_F.p.5001" and on Page 14 it says "Global Cfg: Mon Mar 18 2013, 3:03:43 AM EDT (0x5146BC4F)"

Do you have any Nextbox PVRs as well as the 8300?  One would think that Rogers would only push updates to the boxes that can use them, but, as we found out, they do make human errors.

[Edit:  Okay, you don't have an 8300. That's a relief.]

[rferts]

I have an explorer 8642 HD Cisco. It wiped all my recordings. It canceled all my scheduled recordings. And now I can't even record anything else. It keeps saying duplicate recording. It is doing updates in the middle of the day at random times.

[jays77]

I thought the roll out of Navigatr had been suspended???

[Cap07]

Can't have too much of a good thing. The Rogers Techs in India must be laughing their heads off over all the customer frustration...

[billmcintyre]

Rogers offer of a $15 or $25 credit for erasing all of our recorded programs is a joke.   This doesn't even COME CLOSE to the value of the programs many of us have been archiving FOR YEARS.  There are programs we've been saving that we CAN NEVER GET BACK.  Programs that can't be found anywhere else.

Rogers - you STOLE those programs from us with a stupid, ill conceived, buggy stupid laughingly named 'upgrade' that is stunningly poorly designed.

Why?  Rogers - why do you keep creating an interface that seems to be designed by absolute morons who seem to have NEVER USED A PVR IN THEIR REAL LIVES?

The design choices in the new Navicrap interaface are shockingly stupid.  I didn't believe that Rogers could MAKE THINGS WORSE - in the same way they did when they introduced the NB2 (8642).

I can't believe that the management is SO STUPID as to take away MORE FUNCTIONALITY from a very buggy and unreliable PVR - after they took away about 15 features I liked and relied upon with the change from SARA (SA 8300) to NB2, NB3.  Many of you may have forgotten about SARA, but it did many things that the RTN interface does NOT do.

And this all makes me start to wonder:  is Rogers INTENTIONALLY crippling the PVR in order to coerce us into watching more live TV, and more On Demand programming - because doing so earns more money for them?

Remember, Rogers owns many TV stations, and other revenue streams, and they have had to negotiate deals with TV show creators who do NOT want us skipping commercials - because that is how they earn their money - so it almost seems that Rogers is conspiring with other TV station owners and content providers to cripple the PVR so that we cannot get into the habit of skipping commercials, and archiving our favorite shows. 

[DaveH1]

I talked to someone at Rogers about the Aug 11th update. That is just when they are going to continue rolling out Navigatr to everyone else. Supposedly a fix for the initial screw-up has been rolled out and all you have to do is do a factory reboot. Only problem is that it doesn't seem to work with my PVR. It looks like Rogers didn't thoroughly test the initial release and they didn't thoroughly test the fix. 

[park]

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@DaveH1 wrote:

I talked to someone at Rogers about the Aug 11th update. That is just when they are going to continue rolling out Navigatr to everyone else. Supposedly a fix for the initial screw-up has been rolled out and all you have to do is do a factory reboot. Only problem is that it doesn't seem to work with my PVR. It looks like Rogers didn't thoroughly test the initial release and they didn't thoroughly test the fix. 

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HI

 -  Can you elaborate?

 - What does it do, now  ?

 - Is it a NB2 or NB3 ?

 - Did it wipe-out your recordings at least ?

[neilpalmer400]

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@DaveH1 wrote:

It looks like Rogers didn't thoroughly test the initial release and they didn't thoroughly test the fix. 

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Dave,

I presume you are NOT surprised by this.  

[DaveH1]

All recordings were wiped. Settings menu is blank. Parental controls are on and some stations come up in described video and I can't turn it off.

I've tried a factory reset and have had a technician come out and the same problem keeps occurring.

I'll also add that to this point I haven't even been offered so much as this $15 rebate that people keep talking about. I've been offered nothing as far as compensation so far

[WhyDidYouDoThis]

Same thing happened to me & when I contacted support they told me that there was nothing that could be done to recover recorded shows + shows programmed to be recorded. Once the new system was installed all that data/info was erased.

[neilpalmer400]

Rogers won't offer you anything unless you call in and complain.

Dont take the first measly offer, haggle.

[OLDYELLR]

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@neilpalmer400 wrote:

Rogers won't offer you anything unless you call in and complain.

Dont take the first measly offer, haggle.

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The point I've made over and over again is that the customer should not need to haggle. Everyone should be compensated in accordance to what they lost. The loudest complainer should not be compensated more and the customer who doesn't complain loud and often enough should not get screwed.

[neilpalmer400]

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@OLDYELLR wrote:

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@neilpalmer400 wrote:

Rogers won't offer you anything unless you call in and complain.

Dont take the first measly offer, haggle.

---

The point I've made over and over again is that the customer should not need to haggle. Everyone should be compensated in accordance to what they lost. The loudest complainer should not be compensated more and the customer who doesn't complain loud and often enough should not get screwed.

---

OLDYELLR,

I agree completely.  That's the way it should be.  But Rogers doesn’t have the balls to step up to the plate and pitch a fair deal to everyone.

SO - for now the squeaky wheel gets oiled, and the rest of the customers fume in silence, tell all the people they know how bad Rogers is, and take their business elsewhere.  All because Rogers is publically playing ostrich and is in total denial that there's anything wrong with the emperor’s new clothes.

Though there will be an initial surge in customer cancellations Rogers will not see all these customers leave in one avalanche, they will see them quietly go elsewhere as their contracts expire. No doubt they will be totally clueless as to why the customers are leaving several months down the road, think they need to do something to keep them, and come up with another new look for RTN.

Totally clueless!!      

[theClubHopper]

Anyone who wants to know what I agreed to last week, PM me.

Arguments I made that got progress (ie: increased compensation currently on offer)

• 6x free ROD movies has 0 value to me, as the local library loans out Blu-Rays and DVDs - including new releases - for $0.00
• The same 6x free ROD movies +$15 bill credit was apparently offered to people with NB3s who complained about Navigatr but didn't lose any recordings.
• As we own our PVR and the bill credit offer referred to above was, quote, "off your monthly PVR rental", it was clearly a *scripted* token gesture thrown together without much consideration. Besides the script being insulting to PVR owners, the wording was specific, it wasn't just a "$15 bill credit" - a certain value had been assigned to a PVR rental credit. As such, it follows that PVR owners, who have made a signficant investment in the hardware, should have been offered signficantly more.
  
• A message posted on your website says said the loss of recordings experienced by some customers was "due to human error" - an admission that it should have been avoidable. We keep hearing,"We're taking this very seriously", and we understand that mistakes happen - but PVR drives have been wiped during past updates, too. In the judicial system, penalties for transgressions typically increase upon repeated offences.. it seems to me what's been offered to customers this week is akin to a 'voluntary fine' of insignifant value. It doesn't leave me confident Rogers is taking this "serious enough" to change.
  
• "Without being given the opportunity to say 'No', we were forced to become members of the Rogers Navigatr Beta-Test team. I've already provided Rogers with valuable feedback and have said I'm willing to provide more. Surely there is substantial value in that? "
  
• "Thanks for ___ (concession offered). But that doesn't take into consideration that we'll go over our monthly bandwidth this month because of this Navigatr drive-wiping issue, as we'll have to go online and try to find what we lost - and either download or stream it.". (I was fishing for a free upgrade to "unlimited" this month).
• Very few of our recordings that were lost can be found on Shomi or Rogers on Demand. Even if we can find the programming online, there's a significant time and effort component that hasn't been considered.
  
  

Argument I made that DIDN'T work:

• "Losing our recordings AGAIN (as this is not the first time) has caused us to completely lose faith in our PVR's ability to retain what is recorded, making us reluctant to continue using it - which is a problem as: 1) we almost exclusively only watch recorded programming, 2) we paid a lot of money for the box, and 3) you can hardly expect a customer to reward Rogers for what's just happened by going out and spending money on a NB3 replacement."
• In reply to my demand that they exchange our (owned) 8642HD for a NB3 at no charge, I was told: "Not possible", so I replied, "Anything's possible. But okay, if an exchange isn't possible, just GIVE us one". 
• "Since we've got a PVR we can't trust and since we've had to go online to find programming that we'd lost, it's making us question whether it's time to 'cut the cord' and dump monthly tv service entirely. Giving us a NB3 would ensure we don't."
• "A PVR with recordings on it is like an anchor, it keeps customers who don't want to lose their recordings from exploring alternatives like Bell, or 'cutting the cord'. The Navigatr update cut the chain.. we're finally free! But strangely, we're not all happy about it."
• Bell will give us a blank PVR, too.

[OLDYELLR]

Just as a data point, a customer posted on Digital Home that he managed to negotiate with Rogers to compensate him for his crippled, owned, 8642PVR and lost recordings by giving him a new 9865 rent free for 2 years.