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Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

skutflut
I Plan to Stick Around

Please advise when Rogers will offer the Motorola 6120 DOCSIS 3 modem  for the high speed tier services.   I have been told different stories by Rogers reps since December 2009.  They claimed the modems were being tested but as of July, they still do not offer the Motorola option.

 

I would appreciate if somebody from Rogers who has a knowledgable answer as to why  this ONE MODEM / GATEWAY policy exists, and if there are any plans to change to policy to allow Motorola units.  Some people HAVE managed to get Rogers to install and provision the Motorola modem,  but the process is apparantly very frustrating and the chances of success depend on who you  get on the other end of the phone.  

 

I dont mind buying the modem from Rogers,  but I will not buy or rent a gateway unit, which is twice as expensive, and doesn't work very well.  I am aware of the option to disable the router funtions,  but that goes to my point of getting something twice as expensive and they having to  cripple it to make it work. 

 

I am ready to move up to Extreme plus, but Rogers is preventing me from doing so unless I use the SMC unit.   I will not use that unit,  so I cannot upgrade.    I think there may  be an unfair trade practices issue in all this somewhere.

 

I have a wireless router now, working fine,  all set up with the desired security measures, filters, WEP encryption etc.  and I see no reason why I should have to abandon a router that works well,  in favour of a Rogers mandated unit that has a poor track record, and that they do not seem able to fix for some customers.   

 

You can read about the problems some people are having at www.dslreports.com  in the ROGERS ISP forum. 

 

Please read and reply Mr. Rogers

 

 

***edited labels***

 

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Accepted Solutions

Re:Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

skutflut
I Plan to Stick Around

Thanks for the unofficial Rogers policy explanation. 

 

While I can see some merit to the position of being control,  I still take issue that Rogers has picked the worst example of available hardware and excluded all other choices.  I can see picking one gateway and one plain modem.  I am sure Rogers has the people and resources to support two different pieces of hardware without the foundations of the company crumbling.   I bought my current Motorola 5100 from Rogers and they managed to support it,   They now sell the Scientific Atlanta modem (docsis2) and manage to support that,  and the two SMC gateways  which they also seem to be able to handle.

 

Why on earth can we not get a simple piece of hardware tested and approved?   The fact that the SMC seems to need constant firmware tweaks should be a sign that maybe it was not the best choice.

 

Why would I want to scrap a perfectly good router that is all set up and working fine and replace it with a known problem child?   I certainly hope that the CRTC or Industry Canada introduces regulations that will not allow cableco or telcos to discriminate against customer provided hardware as long as it is industry compliant and meets whatever industry standard specifications exist.   God help us if other manufacturers decide to cease production and leave us with only ONE supplier, such as SMC.  

 

As mentioned in my previous rants on the subject,   if Rogers wants me to upgrade my service, which I am perfectly willing to do,  then they have to offer me choice,  and not dictate that I must use their one and only underperforming hardware option.   As long as I cannot have that choice,  I will just stay with what I have, because it works,  and frankley, I don't particularly want Rogers or SMC  messing around with my hardware without my knowledge.  

 

In the past,  when a problem has come up with my internet connection,  the first tier tech support contact at Rogers always denies that there is any problem with the Rogers network and suggest I do about 45 things with MY system to try and fix the problem (up to and including reformatting and reinstalling the OS)!  Of those times,  it has always turned out to be a Rogers network problem except once,  when my old router decided to take a break.

 

Call me negative if you wish,  but I have been a Rogers customer for many years, and I have seen some horror stories created by Rogers tech support and engineering.    While I acknowledge that for the most part, Rogers service is reliable and give me the speed I pay for,   Rogers has never really done anything to inspire confidence or trust from me when it comes to fixing things when problems do happen.  I don't want to join the ranks of the disappointed.

 

 

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20 REPLIES 20

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

devinbaines
I Plan to Stick Around

Amen.  The SMC unit has not been to my liking.

 

Modem-only solution, please, Rogers.

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

Frenchy
I've Been Around

At very least they need to allow you to turn off DHCP and disable the router functions and act as a Modem. They have customized the firmware to prevent it for reasons I can not understand.

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

tandar
I Plan to Stick Around

Hello Frenchy,

 

If you call into rogers tech support and request it, they can disable the gateway features of the SMC modem so it will act as a modem only.

I am a Rogers employee, but my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Rogers or its affiliates. Je suis un(e) employé(e) de Rogers mais mes commentaires sont les miens et ne reflètent pas nécessairement le point de vue de Rogers ou d’une société de son groupe.

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

Netbug
Rogers Employee
Rogers Employee

As you stated, you are aware of the ability to bridge the gateway and don't want to pay the increased rental fees nor purchase an SMC.

I cannot give you a definitive answer as to when or even if other D3 modems will be allowed on the network. Rogers has not allowed any third party D2 modems on the network either.

The reasoning given behind this is control of the network; it is easier to control and support devices that have been specifically tested and work on the network.

Yes, DOCSIS is an IEEE standard, and yes, any DOCSIS 3 compliant hardware will work, but the inability to control (to the degree desired) the firmware and other aspects of the private devices is the primary issue.

It's the same reason why you don't see third party cable and PVR boxes being permitted on the Rogers network.

There was recently an FCC ruling in the states mandating the allowance of third party devices on networks down there, however, it is unknown if that will in any way affect Rogers poilicy with regards to private devices.

I know it's not the answer you were looking for; sorry about that.

Re:Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

skutflut
I Plan to Stick Around

Thanks for the unofficial Rogers policy explanation. 

 

While I can see some merit to the position of being control,  I still take issue that Rogers has picked the worst example of available hardware and excluded all other choices.  I can see picking one gateway and one plain modem.  I am sure Rogers has the people and resources to support two different pieces of hardware without the foundations of the company crumbling.   I bought my current Motorola 5100 from Rogers and they managed to support it,   They now sell the Scientific Atlanta modem (docsis2) and manage to support that,  and the two SMC gateways  which they also seem to be able to handle.

 

Why on earth can we not get a simple piece of hardware tested and approved?   The fact that the SMC seems to need constant firmware tweaks should be a sign that maybe it was not the best choice.

 

Why would I want to scrap a perfectly good router that is all set up and working fine and replace it with a known problem child?   I certainly hope that the CRTC or Industry Canada introduces regulations that will not allow cableco or telcos to discriminate against customer provided hardware as long as it is industry compliant and meets whatever industry standard specifications exist.   God help us if other manufacturers decide to cease production and leave us with only ONE supplier, such as SMC.  

 

As mentioned in my previous rants on the subject,   if Rogers wants me to upgrade my service, which I am perfectly willing to do,  then they have to offer me choice,  and not dictate that I must use their one and only underperforming hardware option.   As long as I cannot have that choice,  I will just stay with what I have, because it works,  and frankley, I don't particularly want Rogers or SMC  messing around with my hardware without my knowledge.  

 

In the past,  when a problem has come up with my internet connection,  the first tier tech support contact at Rogers always denies that there is any problem with the Rogers network and suggest I do about 45 things with MY system to try and fix the problem (up to and including reformatting and reinstalling the OS)!  Of those times,  it has always turned out to be a Rogers network problem except once,  when my old router decided to take a break.

 

Call me negative if you wish,  but I have been a Rogers customer for many years, and I have seen some horror stories created by Rogers tech support and engineering.    While I acknowledge that for the most part, Rogers service is reliable and give me the speed I pay for,   Rogers has never really done anything to inspire confidence or trust from me when it comes to fixing things when problems do happen.  I don't want to join the ranks of the disappointed.

 

 

View solution in original post

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

inky613
I've Been Around

I am also looking to upgrade but this garbage gateway is stopping me. Mr. Rogers! Give us the Motorola 6120. Control it all ya want!

Re:Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

BIGdude
I Plan to Stick Around

Not from Rogers, but the qwik and dirty answer is probably that they can choose whatever modem they wish to suppy, since they own the network. Motorola makes decent stuff but that brand has a history of being easy to hack. I'm using the SMC now with ultimate, no issues, works fine for me.

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

Gimik
I've Been Around

Interesting thread.

 

To add my 2 cents, I went to upgrade to the express plus option today only to learn that I needed a modem update. The first tech my wife spoke to couldn't give details on the new hardware saying it was a D3 Gateway and that was the Model and Manufacture. After some poking around on Rogers site, and some googling I was able to find the info and was very surprised and rather annoyed when I found out there was no standalone modem options for that level of service and only gateways which were receiving less than stellar reviews. The result of this is I am not upgrading to the Express Plus as intended.

 

Rogers service from a product provided stand point is excellent IMO, but from a business practice, service support and pricing standpoint it is only one small step above Bell. I haven't used a single Bell service in almost 5 years and will likely never go back. Sadly Rogers isn't far from that point, I have been weighing other options for both TV and Internet services and will likely be making changes soon. I am a loyal customer who has done business with Rogers for almost 20 years, but if a great product is accompanied by redicules extra costs, marginal support (OK customer service, but poor product/technical knowledge), and is provided by a company who only barely remembers it has customers then it is not really a god product after all. This really is just icing on the cake.

 

Why would Rogers force subpar hardware AND put themselves into a Home Network support position when trying to sell a new product? I mean seriously. I would never call Rogers to support my home network currently. It is 100% running on my own hardware, configured and supported by me as it should be. The only time I call Rogers regarding my computers/network is if my Modem isn't getting a single or the signle quality is poor, or if my TV is having issues. And now you want to force me to use your Network gateways? At that point I am calling you for every issue with my home network, which is a nightmare to support.

 

Rogers, if you are going to force people to use your own hardware then provide good hardware and stop charging for it. By providing good hardware you will save costs from a support perspective (Less problems with the hardware = less calls in = lower support costs + the support being targeted towards areas which require your support which improves their level of knowledge with their product producing better support offered), which you can then use to supplement the costs of the hardware instead of charging for it (This becomes a selling point, something which can be advertised and promoted). This is a much better support and business model.

 

If you insist on charging for your hardware options, then make sure there are OPTIONS to choose from. Ones which people who have some level of technical ability, or even just the ability to google a product review, will actually be interested in.

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

BIGdude
I Plan to Stick Around

I have nothing to advocate on behalf of Rogers, but some common sense here should prevail. If you want fancier hardware, than be prepared to pay more for your connection or monthly fees. Not sure why Rogers went with SMC, since some people report issues with that box, but it seems to work fine for me without a hitch at all. NAT can be turned off if you want to use your own networking system. I have that done, and have no issues with speed or connectivity. So yeah it's $7 monthly for the SMC box. That's the deal if I want Ultimate speed with is very nicely close to the max of 50 meg down - avg 46-48 regularly. You get what you pay for. If Rogers was going to offer the fanciest DOCSIS 3.0 box, it might cost $10 or more monthly. Since this one works fine and I have a pretty average computer and network in my home, I have to think that some of the other issues reported are not necessarily the fault of the SMC box.  YMMV, mine's great.

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

skutflut
I Plan to Stick Around

There is plenty of common sense prevailing here.  You seem to have missed the point of this thread.  I and the other contributers are looking for LESS fancy hardware, not more fancy.  We want a vanilla DOCSIS3 modem, that's all. 

 

I'm glad your SMC is working.  Let's hope it continues to work after Rogers of SMC pushes a firmware update to it.  From other threads in this forum, and other sources,  the updates seem to be part of the problem.  Good modem suddenly goes belly up or becomes flakey.

 

While we may be pissing into the wind here,  most of us feel that Rogers should provide a choice in hardware since SMC is not the only manufacturer  providing compliant modems.  

 

Imagine if Henry Ford's philosophy had prevailed to this day:  "They can have any colour they want,  as long as it's black."

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

RogersErin
Community Manager (Retired)
Community Manager (Retired)

Hi everyone,

 

I don't have any new updates on Rogers modems at this time.

 

When I do, I'll be sure to post them under Modems & Routers.

 

Thanks

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

testuser1010101
I Plan to Stick Around

Hi folks,

 

Just looking to get some information here - if a Rogers rep could reply, that would be fantastic.

 

Basically, I am sick of the SMCD3GN modem/router that I am using for my Rogers Hi-Speed Ultimate internet. I first of all do not like not having full access to my router features and have to call Rogers to have them do certain functions I should be able to perform, and I don't like Rogers reps having access to my WiFi network and password, nor do I like that it broadcasts a secret WiFi SSID (additional) that I cannot disable without a Rogers admin login. It is also completely unreliable as a modem and router.

 

I would like to find out if I can use the Motorola SURFboard DOCSIS 3.0 6120 modem with Rogers Ultimate internet? If not, can any Rogers representative tell me why not? I heard in the past it was not supported but It cannot have any more issues with the Rogers network than the SMCD3GN does - I am ALWAYS having problems with slow internet (ex: What is supposed to be 50mbps is 1-5 mbps, happens consistently and no peer to peer applications are used at all).

 

If the Motorola SURFboard 6120 DOCSIS 3.0 modem cannot be used, is anybody able to tell me if there is any STANDALONE DOCSIS 3.0 MODEM that can be used with Rogers Ultimate Internet? By standalone, I mean not a modem/router combo (like the ones Rogers offers for Ultimate), but a MODEM ONLY with no built in router. There's got to be something by now!

 

I preferred the old way before Rogers had the higher tiers of speed where I could have my modem on its own and use my own, good router from D-Link or Cisco and have complete control of my network. I know Gateway functions can be disabled on the SMCD3GN, but the modem itself is no good and unreliable and again I don't like having to contact tech support anytime I need to modify my router settings.

 

Thank you for any information that can be provided - I greatly appreciate any help on this matter.

 

Cheers,

 

Adam

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

Hi there

 

same bad experience with the Cisco N gateway..the wifi range is so lousy that it is unbearable.

you can get a dicsis 3.0 modem frmo best buy or ebay online for $99.

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

The Cisco gateway router/modem is DOCSIS 3.0.. but again its a combo.

As above and others have stated.. the wireless on it less than desireable.

But you CAN choose not to use the wireless on it.

Disable it, and use it for DHCP only... then plug in any existing regular router into it, turn off DHCP on it.

Unfortunately, all dhcp, port forwarding, etc must be done from the modem.. but your wireless will be handled via your other router.

I currently have a E series dual band cisco/linksys router running off mine just fine.



Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

dhighway
I've Been Here Awhile

Don't know about the Motorola 6120, but the Cisco one I got from Rogers can be easily configured to "Bridge mode".  This turns it (essentially) into a cable modem only without any other functions.

 

In bridge mode, you can plug the WAN interface of your regular SOHO router/AP/switch into any of its 4 ports and use it like any normal cable modem, ignoring its other functions (i.e. routing, wireless AP, DHCP, firewall, etc).  This way, all the addressing, routing, port forwarding functions, etc, can be done from your existing router.

 

To be honest, I didn't even see any reason to plug in the Rogers USB key that came with mine.  Less than 2 minutes after plugging into AC power, (once I found the option for operating in bridge mode), my network was humming along again, only much faster than it was with my DOCSIS 2 modem.

 

HTH,

David

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

FormerMember
I'm a Senior Advisor

@dhighway wrote:

Don't know about the Motorola 6120, but the Cisco one I got from Rogers can be easily configured to "Bridge mode".  This turns it (essentially) into a cable modem only without any other functions.

 


Rogers has made it quite clear that they will not support any modem other than their own SMC or CISCO gateways. Many have tried to get the Motorola 6120 provisioned, but few have succeeded and not without a great deal of difficulty. 

 

The main issue as I see it though is the fact that Rogers is providing an inferior product and charging more for it - as in the SMC or Cisco. Yes, the modem is fine but the fact that the wireless is "less than desirable" (in other words - garbage) is not fine. If I am going to pay more for a D3 gateway, I expect BOTH the modem and the router to function properly. If it does not, I do not wish to pay for it. I should not have to put the device in bridge mode and then supply my own router. So bottom line is that Rogers should provision a good stand alone D3 modem and until they do, I will stick with the D2 modem that I am still quite happy with. 

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

It's been several months now.

 

Does anyone know if Rogers will allow any DOCSIS 3.0 STANDALONE modem to be used on their cable network yet?

 

I know that TekSavvy allows the Motorola SurfBoard 6121 to be used, which uses the Rogers Cable network for their internet service, and I also have seen many blog posts on the internet where users have been successful in getting Rogers to configure their Motorola 6121 to their Internet account - but it seems that every time I try, they say, "Sorry there's nothing we can do for you. It is not supported at this time." When I ask how others have done it, they say "somebody on the inside must have performed an unauthorized modification, or else that person is lying."

 

Please, Rogers, allow me to use my own standalone modem. If it's the money/rental fees that is the issue and that's what you guys want, then please provide a standalone DOCSIS 3.0 modem to rent!!!

I don't care if I have to rent it, I just want a good standalone modem, NOT a combo modem/router.

 

At the very least... please explain why you prohibit users from doing this (well, at least some users. Some have been lucky in having theirs been allowed on the network).

 

Thanks for any news.

 

Cheers 

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

No - nothing has changed and don't expect a comment from Rogers to explain. It is their policy never to comment on products or services that they do not offer. With Rogers it is not about the customer - it is about Rogers being in control. A stand alone D3 modem would be great though!

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

I called Rogers Last week to talk about their modems. We all know how much fun those calls are so I'll skip all that.

When I talked to the tech about Bridging and Standalone options, it was mentioned that there are rumors of a standalone Modem being release in the fall. She was very careful in the wording, but to paraphrase, people are annoyed with the performance (or lack there of) of the combo modem-routers, so they are testing a new standalone modem that should be out Novemberish.

Again, Rumors, but sounds like enough to convince me to rent their Combo for a few months, and when they release the new Modem, buy it.

Re: Motorola 6120 modem or other DOCSIS 3.0 Standalone modem?

That would be good news indeed Mr_Infection. People really would like a standalone D3 modem and thus far, Rogers has been unresponsive to customer needs. As for the November release date though, I will not hold my breath. Rogers past performance often indicates that something "coming soon" can sometimes take closer to a year or more, so I will happily stick with my rock solid D2 until I actually see a new standalone D3 made available to customers. As an aside, I am curious as to why something like this would need so much testing, since these modems are already available and work well for the lucky few that have been able to get them provisioned.