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Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

ahdfahf
I'm Here A Lot

I just recently purchased the hitron cgn3 802.11n modem/router and I wanted to find out if I use this modem in bridge mode with an 802.11ac third party router, would I be able to obtain even faster download and upload speeds with respect to my wirelessly connected 802.11 ac clients as opposed to simply using the hitron in gateway mode without a third party router???

 

I know that the 802.11n hitron modem/router offers dual band connectivity but will it cap both the download and upload speeds if bridged with a third party 802.11ac router? (I thought 802.11ac connections offered up to 3 times faster speeds compared to 802.11n connections)

 

And if the internet speed isn't really affected by using a third party 802.11ac router then what benefits would I get from using bridge mode other than improved wifi range?? The reason I'm asking is because I'm planning on using a wifi printer, an  OOMA Voip phone system and three HTPC's with 802.11ac connectivity. 

 

Any response would be greatly appreciated Smiley Happy

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

***edited labels***

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

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Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

Datalink
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

In a nutshell, bridge the CGN3, install an 802.11ac router and don’t look back. Once bridged, the CGN3 is a modem only, at which point the router does everything else, firewall, port forwarding, wifi, etc, etc. You will see faster download / upload wireless speeds with an 802.11ac router. That being said, if you haven’t bought a router yet and its on your list of things to do, ensure that it has gigabit WAN and LAN ports and that it has external antenna. I run an Asus RT-AC68U, which has 802.11ac, and I’m very satisfied with it.

 

The CGN3 maxes out at 200 / 21 Mb/s download / upload running a 5 Ghz network which I did use previously. The 2.4 Ghz network, which I did not use maxed out around 100 / 20 Mb/s from what I remember of the test that I ran. It has other problems however in that it does not run mixed 20 Mhz / 40 Mhz wide channel operations on 2.4 Ghz networks. So, if you have a number of devices which might include single antenna, single data stream devices which typically run 20 Mhz wide channels, while all of the other 2.4 Ghz devices that you have run dual antenna, dual data stream 40 Mhz wide channels, the CGN3 will lock down to the lower single data stream 20 mhz wide data rates. Most but not all routers these days are certified for mixed 20 Mhz / 40 Mhz channel operations, switching transmit modes back and forth as necessary to run max data rates to all devices.

 

Running a wired speedtest with the CGN3 in Gateway mode I would typically see 327 / 21 Mb/s on a 250 / 20 Mb/s service. Running the CGN3 in Bridge mode with the RT-AC68U doing all of the router duties, I see 330 / 22 mb/s, so there is a slight increase in bridging the CGN3 and running a router. Wireless, using 802.11ac, I see 325+ / 22 Mb/s on a gaming laptop instead of 200 / 21 using n mode on the CGN3. Our Acer n mode only laptop sees 200 / 21 Mb/s no matter which device is running the network, CGN3 or RT-AC68U. So, your measured wireless rates will really depend on the end test device, and that is an important consideration to keep in mind when you look at your end results.

 

You will probably see an increase in range using a router with external antenna.   Although the antenna gain figures for the CGN3 aren’t too bad at all, my personal opinion is that using external antenna on a router versus circuit board mounted antenna on the CGN3 yields practical improved results which can’t be overlooked. On top of that you have a processor which is dedicated to router only duties, instead of dealing with DOCSIS and router duties on the CGN3. If required, you can usually change external antenna provided that you do the research to find compatible higher gain replacements.

 

Planning on VOIP and wifi printer. Those will be, or should be much easier on a third party router, depending of course on what you already have or what you eventually buy. HTPCs running 802.11ac should see better performance with an 802.11ac router, simply due to running in ac mode instead of n, and possibly due to increased receive signal levels at the HTPCs, as they should support explicit beamforming which requires both transmitter and receiver to support it. Whether or not you see a data rate gain from beamforming is dependent on a number of items of course, as is usual with wifi paths. If you are interested in technical details on 802.11ac beamforming, here is a reference that explains the finer details behind it:

 

http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000001739/ch04.html

 

If you haven’t bought a router yet, and considering your use of supporting three ac HTPCs, you might want to consider the new generation of routers which are now on the market, such as the RT-AC87U, and others which support Multi-User Multi Input Multi Output (MIMO). MIMO allows multiple data streams to run between the router and the device, essentially one data stream per antenna. A word of warning however, they are not cheap, typically running in the $300 range. The RT-AC68U that is commonly mentioned here in this forum only supports Single User MIMO, essentially “a single multi-antenna transmitter communicating with a single multi-antenna receiver” at a time. Multi-User MIMO transmits and receives multiple data streams from multiple client devices simultaneously. Running the HTPCs at their max data rates, would you notice a difference between Single or Multi-User MIMO? That is a very good question. It would depend on the resolution that you run and the site considerations, ie distance and obstacles between the router and the HTPC. If you have any friends nearby with one of these types of routers, maybe you can invite the router over for a test session. The friend might need an appropriate bribe to accompany it.

 

Hope this helps.



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Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

Datalink
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

In a nutshell, bridge the CGN3, install an 802.11ac router and don’t look back. Once bridged, the CGN3 is a modem only, at which point the router does everything else, firewall, port forwarding, wifi, etc, etc. You will see faster download / upload wireless speeds with an 802.11ac router. That being said, if you haven’t bought a router yet and its on your list of things to do, ensure that it has gigabit WAN and LAN ports and that it has external antenna. I run an Asus RT-AC68U, which has 802.11ac, and I’m very satisfied with it.

 

The CGN3 maxes out at 200 / 21 Mb/s download / upload running a 5 Ghz network which I did use previously. The 2.4 Ghz network, which I did not use maxed out around 100 / 20 Mb/s from what I remember of the test that I ran. It has other problems however in that it does not run mixed 20 Mhz / 40 Mhz wide channel operations on 2.4 Ghz networks. So, if you have a number of devices which might include single antenna, single data stream devices which typically run 20 Mhz wide channels, while all of the other 2.4 Ghz devices that you have run dual antenna, dual data stream 40 Mhz wide channels, the CGN3 will lock down to the lower single data stream 20 mhz wide data rates. Most but not all routers these days are certified for mixed 20 Mhz / 40 Mhz channel operations, switching transmit modes back and forth as necessary to run max data rates to all devices.

 

Running a wired speedtest with the CGN3 in Gateway mode I would typically see 327 / 21 Mb/s on a 250 / 20 Mb/s service. Running the CGN3 in Bridge mode with the RT-AC68U doing all of the router duties, I see 330 / 22 mb/s, so there is a slight increase in bridging the CGN3 and running a router. Wireless, using 802.11ac, I see 325+ / 22 Mb/s on a gaming laptop instead of 200 / 21 using n mode on the CGN3. Our Acer n mode only laptop sees 200 / 21 Mb/s no matter which device is running the network, CGN3 or RT-AC68U. So, your measured wireless rates will really depend on the end test device, and that is an important consideration to keep in mind when you look at your end results.

 

You will probably see an increase in range using a router with external antenna.   Although the antenna gain figures for the CGN3 aren’t too bad at all, my personal opinion is that using external antenna on a router versus circuit board mounted antenna on the CGN3 yields practical improved results which can’t be overlooked. On top of that you have a processor which is dedicated to router only duties, instead of dealing with DOCSIS and router duties on the CGN3. If required, you can usually change external antenna provided that you do the research to find compatible higher gain replacements.

 

Planning on VOIP and wifi printer. Those will be, or should be much easier on a third party router, depending of course on what you already have or what you eventually buy. HTPCs running 802.11ac should see better performance with an 802.11ac router, simply due to running in ac mode instead of n, and possibly due to increased receive signal levels at the HTPCs, as they should support explicit beamforming which requires both transmitter and receiver to support it. Whether or not you see a data rate gain from beamforming is dependent on a number of items of course, as is usual with wifi paths. If you are interested in technical details on 802.11ac beamforming, here is a reference that explains the finer details behind it:

 

http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000001739/ch04.html

 

If you haven’t bought a router yet, and considering your use of supporting three ac HTPCs, you might want to consider the new generation of routers which are now on the market, such as the RT-AC87U, and others which support Multi-User Multi Input Multi Output (MIMO). MIMO allows multiple data streams to run between the router and the device, essentially one data stream per antenna. A word of warning however, they are not cheap, typically running in the $300 range. The RT-AC68U that is commonly mentioned here in this forum only supports Single User MIMO, essentially “a single multi-antenna transmitter communicating with a single multi-antenna receiver” at a time. Multi-User MIMO transmits and receives multiple data streams from multiple client devices simultaneously. Running the HTPCs at their max data rates, would you notice a difference between Single or Multi-User MIMO? That is a very good question. It would depend on the resolution that you run and the site considerations, ie distance and obstacles between the router and the HTPC. If you have any friends nearby with one of these types of routers, maybe you can invite the router over for a test session. The friend might need an appropriate bribe to accompany it.

 

Hope this helps.



Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

Thank you very much, you've answered all of my questions in detail. 

I was in fact looking at that exact same Asus Router, received many good reviews on newegg.ca

 

Very much appreciated Smiley Very Happy

 

Thanks again

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

ahdfahf:

 

I upgraded to the Hybrid 150 plan and bought a CGN3 almost 3 months ago. I can vouch for the ASUS AC68U, which I bought from Newegg.ca a few days later, where I posted a review under JiminToronto. The ASUS really was "plug-and-play" for me and it solved a couple of problems with the CGN3. Rogers One Number (VOIP) did not have any audio with the CGN3 and my wireless printer didn't work either. Both problems were fixed by the router without me having to do a thing except set up a security key for the wireless printer. I have an old iPhone 4S and my download speeds are at least 50% faster than they were with the CGN3. I was quite surprised at that because I didn't realize the iPhone was capable of the speeds I'm getting now, which are in the high 40mbps range, although it does vary a bit on Ookla speed tests. I really like the router and its options, plus the GUI is very straight forward. One of the things I do is check my internet usage on the router by using the Traffic Manager, then I look at My Rogers usage to see if they agree, which they do without fail. The router is very stable and I've never had a "crash". My current up time is around 45 days since I last rebooted it.

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

elevit
I Plan to Stick Around

For those who have CGN3 (in bridge mode) and Asus RT-AC68U router... If both of these devices are located in the basement of a two-storey townhouse, do you think the signal strength would be adequate in the the second floor bedrooms? I am with the Fibre 60 plan.

Thanks.

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

Two floors up, I wouldn't guarantee that would work.  Do you already have a 68U or are you looking to buy one?   Do you have ethenet cabling intalled in the home, but possibly not fully connected and therefore not in use?



Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router


@Datalink wrote:

Two floors up, I wouldn't guarantee that would work.  Do you already have a 68U or are you looking to buy one?   Do you have ethenet cabling intalled in the home, but possibly not fully connected and therefore not in use?


I have a friend with a 68R (which is just the Best Buy version of the 68U) in a townhouse, and he says his iPhone 5 can't pick up the 5GHz upstairs. 2.4GHz works fine. Router in the basement. In my experience, the iPhone 5 isn't the best 5GHz receiver out there, who knows how a full-sized laptop would do.

 

If you have Ethernet cabling in the home, the obvious solution is to set up another access point upstairs.

 

(And yes, it does seem like everyone I know has a 68U, doesn't it?)

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

elevit
I Plan to Stick Around

Thanks Datalink.  We are moving into the townhouse soon enough, but I am trying to plan ahead (and yes, I plan on buying the a 68U too).  The previous owners mentioned thay did have ethenet cabling installed and had a router in one of the 2nd floors bedrooms.  I will try searching the forum how to add another access point upstars, but if there is a link or a brief set of steps involved that you know of, perhaps you could direct me to it please?

Thanks so much.

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

elevit
I Plan to Stick Around

Thank you very much

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router


@elevit wrote:

Thanks Datalink.  We are moving into the townhouse soon enough, but I am trying to plan ahead (and yes, I plan on buying the a 68U too).  The previous owners mentioned thay did have ethenet cabling installed and had a router in one of the 2nd floors bedrooms.  I will try searching the forum how to add another access point upstars, but if there is a link or a brief set of steps involved that you know of, perhaps you could direct me to it please?

Thanks so much.


I would test it first with just the 68U in the basement, see how well it does with your devices. Also, 2.4GHz should reach upstairs no problem - depending on your performance needs and the congestion in your area (a townhouse wouldn't be as bad as an apartment building), perhaps you're happy enough with that.

 

If you want to add another access point, just pick up another Asus router. They have an 'access point mode' that makes the software setup very, very, very easy.

 

One other thing you could consider is the 56U instead of the 68U. The 56U has only 2 streams (so maximum N speed of 300 megabits instead of 350, AC speed of 867 megabits instead of 1300, assuming you had 3-stream-capable clients) and lower range (no external antennas), but it also costs substantially less. A 56U in the basement in router mode and a 56U upstairs in access point might work VERY nicely in your case...

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

elevit
I Plan to Stick Around

Thanks so much for great suggestions VivienM!  Just one more (probably silly) question please.  Do the two routers (the main one in the basement and the AP on the 2nd floor) have to be physically connected with each other?  That would mean that I would rely that there is an ethernet cable already running in the house between basement and the 2nd floor.  Is that correct?

Thanks again.

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

Gdkitty
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

Yes, to run a 2nd router as an AP, you would need network cable of some form running there.

 

 

Only other option, is to use a wifi repeater... which can be hit and miss sometimes.


I am not using the 68u, only the 66u myself, on the 60/10 plan.

I currently am in a 1900 sq ft house.  I have the MODEM in the basement, and a network cable running up to the main floor, central in the house, with the N66u there.

I am able to get coverage in pretty much every corner.  2.4 full bars everywhere, 5ghz, 3-4(of 5) bars even in the farthest corner.

 

SO if running a cable all the way to the 2nd floor.. just putting it more central, may be enough with the 68u

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

To add to VivienM’s post, if you have structured wiring or just Ethernet cabling installed, running data upstairs or downstairs will be easy. Structured wiring is a wiring bundle consisting of two RG-6 cables for satellite or cable TV, one Cat-5e or better Ethernet cable for data and one Cat-3 (or possibly Cat-5e) for phone, all held together as a bundle by a loose nylon mesh. When installed, there is usually one bundle run to most rooms which starts at the structured wiring cabinet down in the basement. The builder might install a connector on one of the RG-6 cables or the telephone Cat-3, and leave the remaining cable ends tucked in behind the wallplate without any connectors installed. So, its up to the home owner to install the necessary keystones (connectors) and wallplates upstairs and connector ends downstairs. Typically you would install a patch panel downstairs to hold the Cat-5e keystones, but you don’t necessarily have to install a patch panel. That will depend on how much room you have available where ever the cables terminate downstairs. To support the rest of the house for data you would need a gigabit switch located in the structured wiring cabinet, connected to all of the other house Ethernet cables. The connected system would be as follows:

 

Incoming Rogers RG-6 cable from outside tap -- Modem -- Ethernet Cat-5e or Cat-6 -- Gigabit switch -- Short Patch cable -- Keystone (possibly in patch panel) connected to Cat-5e running upstairs to wallplate -- Patch cable -- Router or other device

 

To use a modem only installed in the cabinet the plan would look like this:

 

Incoming Rogers RG-6 cable from outside tap -- Modem -- Short Patch cable -- Keystone (possibly in patch panel) connected to Cat-5e running upstairs to wallplate -- Patch cable -- Router or other device

 

If the modem is parked in the wiring cabinet you can connect the some of the upstairs ethernet cables to the ports on the modem. Beyond 4 cables however, you would need to use a gigabit switch to support the remaining cables. The switch is connected from any one of its ports to one of the ports of the modem, and then connected to the rest of the Ethernet cables through any of the other switch ports.

 

You can order short patch cables from Monoprice for use between the Gigabit switch and the downstairs keystone (connector). If you have to install a keystone, or maybe more, its easy to do as they are marked with the Ethernet wire colours that you would match up to the cable wire colours and all you need beyond that is a 110 Punch Down tool to push the wires onto the keystone connector points.

 

With the Ethernet in place, you can connect a second router upstairs to give you coverage on the second floor. As VivienM indicated, newer routers have an access point mode available that makes it easy to set up a router to act as an access point only instead of as a router. The router in the basement or elsewhere would be in charge of the network in terms of firewall duties, assigning LAN IP address to all network devices and also in terms of any processing such as QOS, traffic monitoring etc, etc. If you have a second router that does not have an Access Point mode available, its not hard to set it up to run as an Access Point. Its just a matter of assigning an IP address to it, turning off the DHCP, setting up the wireless parameters and then connecting to one of it’s LAN ports instead of the WAN port.

 

Finally, if there is structured wiring in the home, you don’t have to park the modem in the basement. It can sit elsewhere in the home, connected via house RG-6 cable to the incoming RG-6 cable. Mine is on the main floor, connected in turn, via Ethernet to a gigabit switch in the basement. That way, I can use the modem ports if I choose, and keep an eye on it as well.



Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

elevit
I Plan to Stick Around

Wow! So much useful information guys!  Thanks so much, Datalink, Gdkitty, VivienM!  I will keep all of this in mind, and will act depending on what the current situation is in the house is.

Thanks again all.

 

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router


@Gdkitty wrote:

Only other option, is to use a wifi repeater... which can be hit and miss sometimes.


I haven't used those, but they've always struck me as a bad bad bad idea...

 

... for two reasons:

1) Your wifi performance will be halved

2) Placement. You need to place the repeater close enough to the main access point that it gets a good signal... but also close enough to where the devices that can't reach the main access point are. That strikes me as a very difficult balance...

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

Yeah..
For INDOOR use i would say just find a way to run a network cable and put in another AP.

 

I have a BASIC repeater for outside in the back yard..  It only repeates the 2.4 and 150m N only.
But it works.   Its not there for proving the BEST speeds..  its there to just extend the usage into the back yard for phones, etc so we are not using up cellular data if out there.
(also use it for basic streaming out there.. i have a airport express set up as a music endpoint, set up to speakers out there... so can stream from internet radio, etc to the airport, etc).

Its in a spot, which would NOT be easy to run a network cable out to.

For a sub $30 extender, it works 🙂

I would never use one for more than BASIC usage.

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

remaxman
I'm a Reliable Contributor

I have a cisco wireless wrt400n. When I try to get into it I end up in my Hitron. I know the Hitron is at 192.168.0.1 and thought my cisco was at 192.168.100.1 . I have lan into the cisco and turned off the Hitron but it will not let me in because of no internet conction (hitron). I have hit the reset button on the cisco a few times. What amI missing.

 

 

Steve

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

From the user manual located at:

 

http://downloads.linksys.com/downloads/userguide/WRT400N_V10_UG_A-WEB,0.pdf

 

The Router’s default IP address,192.168.1.1 or http://wrt400n.com

 

Its interesting that 192.168.0.1 takes you to the Hitron.  That does surprise me, unless the Hitron modem is running in Gateway mode instead of Bridge mode. 

 

1.  Are you using the ethernet ports on the Hitron modem as well as the router ports?  If so, then the Hitron is running in Gateway mode.  With a router behind it, the modem is normally set to run in Bridge mode.  You can run the modem in Gateway mode with the router set specifically to run as an access point, leaving the modem to provide firewall and DHCP duties. 

 

2.  If you can reach the modem by using 192.168.0.1, or 192.168.100.1, log in and see if the BASIC ..... GATEWAY FUNCTION, Residential Gateway Function is disabled, ie: the modem is in Bridge mode. 

 

3.  Out of curiosities sake, can you post the modem model number:  CGN3, CGN3ACR or CGN3ACSMR.

 

4.  If you bring up a command prompt and type:  ipconfig/all    you should see the network details for the pc or laptop.  If you look at the Default Gateway address in the second data group, it should probably be 192.168.1.1



Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

remaxman
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Resdential Gateway mode enabled. CGN3ROG

 

I am using lan in the Hitron as well as the cisco.

 

I just want to add all my TV stuff to wired as opposed to wireless because of interference. I had it set up already but I moved everything.


@Datalink wrote:

From the user manual located at:

 

http://downloads.linksys.com/downloads/userguide/WRT400N_V10_UG_A-WEB,0.pdf

 

The Router’s default IP address,192.168.1.1 or http://wrt400n.com

 

Its interesting that 192.168.0.1 takes you to the Hitron.  That does surprise me, unless the Hitron modem is running in Gateway mode instead of Bridge mode. 

 

1.  Are you using the ethernet ports on the Hitron modem as well as the router ports?  If so, then the Hitron is running in Gateway mode.  With a router behind it, the modem is normally set to run in Bridge mode.  You can run the modem in Gateway mode with the router set specifically to run as an access point, leaving the modem to provide firewall and DHCP duties. 

 

2.  If you can reach the modem by using 192.168.0.1, or 192.168.100.1, log in and see if the BASIC ..... GATEWAY FUNCTION, Residential Gateway Function is disabled, ie: the modem is in Bridge mode. 

 

3.  Out of curiosities sake, can you post the modem model number:  CGN3, CGN3ACR or CGN3ACSMR.

 

4.  If you bring up a command prompt and type:  ipconfig/all    you should see the network details for the pc or laptop.  If you look at the Default Gateway address in the second data group, it should probably be 192.168.1.1


 

Steve

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

remaxman
I'm a Reliable Contributor
Oh and ipconfig gives me 192.168.0.1 that was the first thing I checked. 0.1 is the Hitron on a private network. I want to turn off DCHP and wireless off on the Cisco
Steve

Re: Hitron CNG3 802.11n modem bridge mode setup with 802.11 ac third party router

ah, ok then, disconnect the Cisco from the Hitron modem and run a factory reset on the Cisco router with the pc still attached via ethernet.  After the reboot of the Cisco router you should be able to log into it using 192.168.1.1.  At that point you can disable the DHCP and wifi.  Save the settings, power down the Cisco, reconnect it to the Hitron modem and power it back up.  You should be good to go at that point, using the Cisco as an Access point.

 

When the Cisco router is disconnected from the modem and a factory reset has been completed, following the reboot you should be able to use the  ipconfig/all command I believe to check the Cisco's Gateway IP address even though it isn't connected to the internet.  It should default to 192.168.1.1 I believe when there is no internet connection available.

 

Whenever you want to make any changes to the Cisco settings, you will have to disconnect it from the modem, run a factory reset and then log into it to complete the changes.



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