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Gigabit Internet Speeds?

RyzenFX
I'm a Reliable Contributor

So I've heard some exiting news that on thursday Bell announced that they are bringing Gigabit Internet speeds to Toronto. I'm curious about when will Rogers be announcing Gigabit Internet speeds to compete with Bell. Would it be anytime
soon?

In addition, as for price for gigabit speeds I hope it will be somewhat the prices that Rogers is offering now so Rogers can compete with Bell and Google Fiber in the long run..

 

 

***Edited Labels.***

22 REPLIES 22

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

VivienM
I'm an Advisor

@eddiethefunnyon wrote:
So I've heard some exiting news that on thursday Bell announced that they are bringing Gigabit Internet speeds to Toronto. I'm curious about when will Rogers be announcing Gigabit Internet speeds to compete with Bell. Would it be anytime
soon?

In addition, as for price for gigabit speeds I hope it will be somewhat the prices that Rogers is offering now so Rogers can compete with Bell and Google Fiber in the long run..

Well, here's the thing - 960 megabits/sec is about 26 DOCSIS channels. The currently-deployed Rogers hardware, e.g. the CGN3, can bond 24 D3 channels, so about 900 megabits/sec. I believe Rogers typically has 21 channels deployed now; as the analog TV shutdown continues that should continue to go up. (The danger, of course, is that if you got a 900 megabit/sec plan and you max out the connection... whoops, there's no bandwidth left for anyone else on your node. This is one reason the fastest Rogers sells is 250 despite each node having about 800 megabits/sec of capacity).

 

Frankly, I think this is a marketing stunt from Bell trying to cover up the fact that in most urban areas, the most they currently offer with their FTTN DSL is about 50 megabits/sec when Rogers is selling 100/250 megabit plans. As many people here have discovered with the 250 megabit plan, there comes a point where more speed on your end is nearly useless...

 

That being said, more competition is always a good thing - Bell Aliant FTTH out east has led Rogers to offer extremely aggressively-priced 3-year bundles compared to what they offer in Ontario. In NB, from Rogers, you can get a basic TV package with a PVR, home phone with all the features and Canadian long distance, 70 megabit/sec unlimited (or is it 200GB?) Internet for $100/month for 3 years... largely because that matches the offering from Bell Aliant.

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

Due to hardware limitations.. with the current cable infrastructure.. rogers may strugle to compete the exact same (unless they start running their own fiber)

But thats one thing to look at...   it will be a FTTH (fiber to the home) setup.
The cost for them to get it to a household neibourhood, which is NOT wired for fiber already?  A LOT.. i mean, a whole subdivision could be $500,000+. Especailly if all cables are burried and not suspended.

I can see new builds being the first to get it.

Business areas.

 

Also $$ may come into play.. havent really seen what the COST will be either.  Yeah they may offer the service.. but could be insanely expensive.

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

RyzenFX
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Rogers will be already at a disadvantage because Bell has already rolled out FTTH in some areas, especially newer buildings and houses. Rogers would definitly need a bigger budget if they want to compete with Bell. In addition, Rogers' modems cannot handle over 1gigabit speeds. HOWEVER, having gigabit speeds now is not a priority (since most of us are using wifi) but it would definitely be great for the long run...

 

In terms of Google Fiber, is it possible for them to compete with Bell now that they have announced their new gigabit speed service?

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?


@eddiethefunnyon wrote:

Rogers will be already at a disadvantage because Bell has already rolled out FTTH in some areas, especially newer buildings and houses. Rogers would definitly need a bigger budget if they want to compete with Bell. In addition, Rogers' modems cannot handle over 1gigabit speeds. HOWEVER, having gigabit speeds now is not a priority (since most of us are using wifi) but it would definitely be great for the long run...

 

In terms of Google Fiber, is it possible for them to compete with Bell now that they have announced their new gigabit speed service?


Who cares about Google Fiber? Unless I missed something, they have no intention of setting up shop in this country. Really, the purpose of Google Fiber was more to shame U.S. providers who, unlike Rogers, prefer offering slow (<10-15 megabit/sec) unlimited service at fairly low prices.

 

As for Rogers' current modems not handling 1 gigabit speeds, who cares? Coax, with current technology, has about 5 gigabits/sec of capacity, which has to be split between digital TV, analog TV, home phone (ridiculously tiny), and Internet, shared among all households on a node. If Rogers can free up another 20 channels for DOCSIS, then the only thing they're missing is a 48-channel DOCSIS 3 modem (I haven't googled, but I suspect those exist or soon will). Find one of those... and boom, you're in business - no need to start digging up the streets to string fiber. And Rogers' capital costs will be trivial compared to Bell's...

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

Oh, and one other thing - there is already Rogers FTTH out there. I don't think they're offering anything different from Rogers coax, but new neighbourhoods/condos/etc have been getting wired with FTTH...

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

I dont specifically see the plans for it anymore.. but it was the 250/250 FFTH.

 

 

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

RyzenFX
I'm a Reliable Contributor

It doesn't seem that hard for Rogers to introduce gigabit internet speeds, with that I hope it comes soon.. We already have the technology but like VivienM said if Rogers can free up 20 channels for DOCSIS and introduce at 48 channel DOCSIS 3 modem, Rogers is set to go. My neighbourhood is fairly new (2011) and I'm wondering if i already have FTTH...

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

RyzenFX
I'm a Reliable Contributor

As for now fiber should be mainly availiable to high density buildings (if more devices connected certainly, higher speeds are essential) and as it goes mainstream pricing will be lowered so low density housing can get the upgrade..

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?


@eddiethefunnyon wrote:

As for now fiber should be mainly availiable to high density buildings and as it goes mainstream pricing will be lowered so low density housing can get the upgrade..


But what's pricy with fiber is the LABOUR to install it. I don't see how that's going to change...

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

RyzenFX
I'm a Reliable Contributor
At some point in the future, we are going to have many devices connected to wifi and there's no other choice than installing and using Fiber since it can transmit data infinitely faster than copper

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?


@eddiethefunnyon wrote:
At some point in the future, we are going to have many devices connected to wifi and there's no other choice than installing and using Fiber since it can transmit data infinitely faster than copper

If you're talking about phone-style copper, sure - this is why Bell and others are biting the bullet and stringing fiber to the home. If you're talking coax... that 'point in the future' is decades away, if ever...

 

And as for the 'so many devices connected to wifi', that makes me laugh. A gazillion devices on 2.4GHz 802.11n is... not actually going to need that much bandwidth. The bottleneck is in the 2.4GHz congestion...

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

RyzenFX
I'm a Reliable Contributor

So what? Rogers is going to fall behind in INFRASTRUCTURE if it continues to go with Coax, investors will be leaning towards Bell and other companies with Fiber since it is the way to go.... Canada is already behind in internet infrastrucutre and Bell is making a good move to fiber optic.. CHANGE IS INEVITABLE

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

Yes, it probably WILL be the way that all of them go, eventually.

But if people thing that this will be an overnight change.. its FAR from it.  Personally i think it will be years even before 60% of Toronto has full access to it... let alone anyone OUTSIDE of toronto.


Will it be a beinifit for those one that might have access? Sure.. but hardly a game changer or anything.. untill its available to EVERYONE.  (sure there is alot more users in the Toronto.. but its still probaly a small % of their overall users)

 

If you look at Bell and Rogers... they BOTH are using Fiber right now.  Both of them, their main data transport between nodes is all fiber.  Both offer business internet via fiber where available. 
Its the fiber FROM the node through to the subdivisions.. which is costly.

Take this from experience.  At my work in Aurora, the closest fiber node was like only 300m away.  But to get to it.. had to go under a driveway and a road.. there was no run down that street yet..   It cost our company almost $25,000 to get that run done.  Burried lines are expensive.  Now just imageing doing a whole subdivision where its all burried and nothing there yet.


It wil get there.. it will just take time, due to the costs.

 

"Canada is already behind in internet infrastrucutre"
Personally i always find it funny when people say this.   Yes, in some ways they are to some other countries, even though which you would find more 'backwater' than canada/USA... but also a big difference is WHEN the infrastrutures went in.  Canada and the US had 'high speed' internet often much longer than many of those countries (rogers high speed has been around 20 years this year).. and yes started on the available infrastruture at the time and has continued on with it.  Many of the other countries started later, but started with fiber right from the start. (also that not many other places do BURRIED lines and are all above ground cables help too)

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

Ekklesia
I've Been Here Awhile

I've read most of what has been said here & have researched various articles from other sources related to this newer high speed development.  There are a couple of things that need to be in place before anyone unveils this product.  The first thing to know is that the CGN3 modem Rogers is currently using implements Docsis 3.0 technology which limits the maximum download speeds to 960 Mbps.  Newer modems utilizing the recent release of Docsis 3.1 software will have to be manufactured or software upgrades made available to make the current modems adaptable.  Docsis 3.1 software will compress 50% more data than 3.0 into the bandwidth stream making it less expensive to supply customers from the source with those higher speeds.  Apparently this will be done in (2) waves.  The first wave will have the modems being able to use either the older Docsis 3.0 software & the Docsis 3.1.  The 3.1 version based software will give the modem the capability to handle up to (5) Gbps download & (1) Gbps up.  When the 2nd wave of strictly Docsis 3.1 based modems are eventually released, this will double the possible download speeds to (10) Gbps with (2) up.  The second thing that has to be understood is both Rogers, Bell, & whoever else competes for this market will need the appropriate means to deliver this service.  That means newer capable fibre optic lines being installed.  That's where Rogers has the one up on Bell.  Bell will not bury these new lines the same way Rogers already has & generally does, which has led to a deal with Toronto Hydro & Bell to use all their poles to install 1000's of miles of new cable to replace the older inefficient versions.  The initial cost outlay will be tremendous but necessary.  Maybe Bell has a few more billions to throw around than Rogers, but I've seen where after paying for the initial cost & integration of the Docsis 3.1 software alone, estimates predict that Rogers will be able to recoup their upgrading investment in roughly (6) months vs (42) months with Bell.  Can Bell hold out against such a headstart by Rogers?  I personally can't see where Rogers upper eschelon management is even going to think about giving Bell a chance to catch up.  The proof of this so far is in their dealings & agreements with the Toronto Blue Jays to stream all their home games in 4K & let's not forget about direct connections to the NetFlix servers & the appearance of Shomi in conjunction with Shaw Cable.  Consumers have cancelled their subscriptions to the HD channel packages in ever growing numbers lately.  Nobody has the time any more to watch them all & they don't feel comfortable in paying for channels they most likely would never watch.  The cry for personal selection in TV viewing is a loud & long awaited one.  The answer?  Finally appeal to the sports fan & the "time strapped" citizen who always has a favorite program which they actually consider worth it, has home security services installed, & an increasing number of peripherals which need wi-fi.  Add in an estimated 1/3 of the Canadian population with a 4K TV in their home by 2019 & there you have it!  The question now becomes WHO gets to the provider finish line first?  A parting thought!  Google Fibre won't even be a contender in the Canadian market.  Too much protectionist legislation presently in place to wade through & way too long of a recapture point to get back the initial untold billions they would have to invest.  Take care everyone!

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

Sischka
I've Been Here Awhile

Hello there,

 I am currently in Almonte Ontario, I have the Gigabit service and I get speeds in excess of 900Mb a sec at all times, the real proof for me is when I download a Steam game and it comes in at 850+Mb, akamai servers are the best.!

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

Whats your speedtest upload rates?



Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

Ekklesia
I've Been Here Awhile
Glad to see Rogers got the bugs worked out. After 3 months of less than 600 Mbps download I went back to the 250 package. With speed boost I was getting 330 on the average so that is definitely worth it. No more having to phone the billing department every month to get the cost of 1 gig service reduced for performance issues. The "techies" visited twice & found no problems with my system, so I just chalked this all up to temporary growing pains. Do I need the 1 gig service now? For $150, probably not. Once again things are not what we imagine them to be.

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

Sischka
I've Been Here Awhile

My upstream is a consistent 30Mb thats what they told me I would be getting based on the current hardware config out here.

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

Finally some one who knows what they are talking about. Fiber is good but you need to see through the advertising hype. Fiber to the home sounds awesome. I would rather have the segmentation.

Re: Gigabit Internet Speeds?

coolspot
I Plan to Stick Around

@eddiethefunnyon wrote:

So what? Rogers is going to fall behind in INFRASTRUCTURE if it continues to go with Coax, investors will be leaning towards Bell and other companies with Fiber since it is the way to go.... Canada is already behind in internet infrastrucutre and Bell is making a good move to fiber optic.. CHANGE IS INEVITABLE


I believe RG-6 coax has a theoretical limit of about 10 gigabits ... so while fiber can go faster, coax still has a long lifespan - at least 10+ years.

 

However, since I got Gigabit a month ago, my speeds have been declining... the first week I averaged about 900mbps, now it's down to 650mbps. Perhaps my area is becoming saturated?

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