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Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Alex4161
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Hello,

 

I have a question about signal levels that I hope someone can answer.

 

I have a main line that comes to the side of my house and has a 2 way splitter.  1 run goes into 2 TVs on the main floor and the other run (going to my bedroom) gets split 3 ways into a Cable Modem, and 2 TV's  I have a total of 4 TV's and Internet.

 

The signal I get from the line in my bedroom plugged in directly to my rogers box (no splitters except the one on the side of my house):

 

channel 2 213 Mhz 6 Db
channel 5 543 MHz 3 db
channel 293 753 Mhz 2 db

 

These are good signal levels for my TV and I have no issues.

 

If I disconnect the rogers box, and connect this line directly to my modem, I get the following

 

657 MHz  -5.4dB
597 Mhz   0.5 dB

 

I didn't screenshot every channel, but just took the max/min values I can see.

 

The way have everything wired now, is that I have a 4 way amp that increase the return 7 db and also the forward signal by 4 db.

 

With one line connected to my modem, the channels are as follows:

 

Downstream Overview

Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDSignal noise ratio (dB)
1603000000256QAM3.700337.356
2591000000256QAM3.300136.387
3597000000256QAM4.000237.356
4609000000256QAM3.300436.610
5615000000256QAM2.000536.610
6621000000256QAM1.000635.780
7633000000256QAM0.500735.780
8639000000256QAM0.600835.595
9645000000256QAM1.000935.780
10651000000256QAM-0.3001035.595
11657000000256QAM-0.6001135.595
12663000000256QAM0.2001235.595
13669000000256QAM0.4001335.595
14675000000256QAM0.5001435.595
15681000000256QAM1.5001536.387
16687000000256QAM1.8001636.610
17693000000256QAM1.5001736.387
18699000000256QAM1.6001836.387
19705000000256QAM1.0001936.387
20711000000256QAM0.5002035.780
Upstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDBandWidth
138596000ATDMA - 64QAM43.50013200000
223700000ATDMA - 64QAM40.50036400000
330596000ATDMA - 64QAM41.50026400000

 

These numbers are fine as well and my Internet speed is great.  The problem is that my TV box signal is very high and it causes some breakups at times:

 

channel 2         213 Mhz    12 Db
channel 5         543 MHz      7 Db
channel 293    753 Mhz       6 Db

 

Looking at the rogers setup in my neighbourhood, the linex is at one end of the street and my tap is the last one on the street that is shared by 4 homes. 

 

Is there a way Rogers can boost the cable signal levels so that I can remove my amp and still have decent signal for Internet?


Thanks

19 REPLIES 19

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

RogersCorey
Moderator
Moderator

Hi @Alex4161,

 

We'll have to run some tests on your line to see what the signal is displaying on our end. 

 

Was this amp installed by one of our techs or did you install it yourself?

 

Please PM @CommunityHelps and we will further investigate.

 

RogersCorey

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Alex4161
I'm a Reliable Contributor

The amp is what I installed. 

 

I removed everything now and plugged in the rogers splitter and the modem level appears to be very low now:

 

Level while plugged into the -3.5 dB Leg of the 3 way splitter:

 

Downstream Overview

Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDSignal noise ratio (dB)
1603000000256QAM-4.300337.356
2591000000256QAM-4.600136.610
3597000000256QAM-3.900237.356
4609000000256QAM-5.000436.610
5615000000256QAM-6.500536.610
6621000000256QAM-7.200635.780
7633000000256QAM-7.500735.595
8639000000256QAM-7.300835.084
9645000000256QAM-7.100935.595
10651000000256QAM-8.4001035.084
11657000000256QAM-8.6001135.084
12663000000256QAM-7.9001235.595
13669000000256QAM-7.8001335.595
14675000000256QAM-7.7001435.780
15681000000256QAM-6.7001536.387
16687000000256QAM-6.5001636.387
17693000000256QAM-6.6001735.780
18699000000256QAM-6.6001836.387
19705000000256QAM-7.3001935.595
20711000000256QAM-7.7002035.595
Upstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDBandWidth
138596000ATDMA - 64QAM40.00013200000
223700000ATDMA - 64QAM37.50036400000
330596000ATDMA - 64QAM38.50026400000

 

 

 The signal level to my Rogers PVR now plugged in to the -7dB leg of the splitter is as follows:

 

channel 2           213 Mhz      0  dB

channel 5           543 Mhz      -7 dB

channel 293       743 Mhz     -8 dB

 

Thanks

 

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

You obviously have signal issues at the place.

You would be best to callin and get a tech sent out.


They can check from the street, and then all connectors then otherwise to see where it may lay.. could be just the connector outside.. but if at street level, they can put in a ticket to maintenance, etc.

But, when the tech does come out, make sure to NOT have your own amp installed.
Any of your own installed equipment, which 'could' cause issues (though yes, in this case was helping improve), which is not rogers installed... will usually end up in you getting charged for the visit.
The visit should be free otherwise.

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Alex4161
I'm a Reliable Contributor

I unplugged everything and put the splitter back to the one Rogers provided.  My modem levels are as follows now:

 

Downstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDSignal noise ratio (dB)
1657000000256QAM-8.6001135.084
2591000000256QAM-4.600136.610
3597000000256QAM-3.900237.356
4603000000256QAM-4.300337.356
5609000000256QAM-5.000436.387
6615000000256QAM-6.400536.387
7621000000256QAM-7.200635.780
8633000000256QAM-7.600735.595
9639000000256QAM-7.400835.084
10645000000256QAM-7.000935.780
11651000000256QAM-8.4001035.084
12663000000256QAM-7.9001235.780
13669000000256QAM-7.8001335.595
14675000000256QAM-7.8001435.595
15681000000256QAM-6.8001536.387
16687000000256QAM-6.5001636.387
17693000000256QAM-6.7001735.780
18699000000256QAM-6.6001836.387
19705000000256QAM-7.3001935.780
20711000000256QAM-7.7002035.595
Upstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDBandWidth
138596000ATDMA - 64QAM40.00013200000
223700000ATDMA - 64QAM37.50036400000
330596000ATDMA - 64QAM38.0002

6400000

 

I hope someone can come today to check it out.  Looks like a long wait time with Rogers support now. 

 

Thanks,

 

 

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Alex4161
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Well that was a waste of time calling... the internet support guys looked at my levels and said "looks ok to me.. no point calling in" and transferred me to the TV group.  That tech was very polite and booked an appointment tomorrow and will try to get someone today

 

 

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Part of the problem are the cable runs themselves.  In the one case, you're splitting the cable to feed the internet and cable tv modems.  So, whenever you install a splitter you will lose at least 3.5 dB, possibly as high as 7 dB if the splitter has more than two output ports on it.  There's no way to get around that unless you use an amplifier.  The problem with amplifiers is that they can introduce packet loss on the internet modem. The amplifiers used by Rogers these days have an pass-through path for VOIP devices.  This is not amplified and is also used for the internet modem, however, just like an ordinary splitter, you will lose 3.5 dB on that passive path.  The fact that this path is not amplified also means that there won't be any packet loss observed on the internet modem

 

There is one thing to check that might help in this situation and that is to determine if your home has structured cabling installed.  Structured cabling is a wire bundle consisting of two RG-6 cables for satellite and cable TV, one Cat 5/5e cable for ethernet and one Cat 3 for telephones, although the Cat 3 might be a Cat 5/5e instead.  That bundle runs from the Structured Cabling Cabinet in the basement  up to every room where it is installed, usually one run per room.  Not all rooms necessarily have that bundle installed.  Contractors typically install one single connector, cable TV or phone connector to its matching cable and tuck the rest in behind of the wall plate, where they sit, waiting to be discovered by the home owner and put to use.  So, if you check behind any existing wall plate where you have a cable or telephone outlet, you might see the rest of the cable bundle.  

 

If it is there, you can put the other RG-6 cable to use.  What you would do at that point is use one run to feed the two tv's in your bedroom and the other run to feed the internet modem.  

 

One problem is the fact that you have two tv's in both rooms that are fed off of one single cable, which means that a splitter is used, dropping each cable signal level by 3.5 dB.  So, from the original feed into the house, you drop 3.5 dB at the first splitter and then another 3.5 dB at the other splitter that feeds the tv's.  If you have structured cabling that means that you could ask the Rogers tech to install a powered amp to the cable that feeds the house.  One run goes from there to the main room for its tv's, another run goes to the bedroom to feed the tv's and another non-amplified run goes to the bedroom to feed the internet modem.  Each tv line would be split, and would end up around -3.5 dBmV if my calculations are correct.  That also depends on the original signal level going into the home.  

 

If you only have one single run going to the bedroom, that is a problem as you don't want to amplifiy the path that leads to the internet modem.  You would have to split that run, which results in a 3.5 dB drop downstairs and 3.5 dB drop at the bedroom.  That might be problematic depending on your original signal level into the home.  If you only have that single run going to the bedroom, you should determine if there is any way to run a secondary cable, maybe even two or three if it was going to be an easy task.  That would depend on whether or not the basement was finished.  Running multiple cables would possibly allow the tech to park a larger passive splitter downstairs, dropping the internet feed by 3.5 dB and the tv feeds by 7 dB.  You would have to take into consideration the original signal levels where the cable enters the house.  

 

So, there are some considerations to look at and discuss as options with the tech.  Part of the techs job is to balance the cable network so that the various modems are running with signal levels that are within an acceptable range.  sometimes the tech has to get creative when faced with a situation such as single runs that are spit for various modems.  



Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Alex4161
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Thnaks Datalink for the information.

 

Yes, the way the wiring is setup in my home, the main line has a 2 way splitter on the side of the house:

 

Run 1 - Goes to the basement and into a 2 way splitter which feeds 2 TVs on the main floor

Run 2 - Goes into a bedroom and into a 3 way splitter:  -3.5 dB connection into the Cable modem, 2 x -7 dB connections into TV boxes.

 

Run 1 Digital TV boxes are only getting a fraction of the main signal as it gets split 2x and each tv is losing 7dB from the main line.

 

Run 2 signal is even weaker as it gets split via a 3 way.  The cable modem suffers a 7dB drop and the TV boxes suffer a -10 dB.

 

My home was built 24 years ago (and thats how long we have been Rogers customers) so I don't have the structured cable you talk about.  Ideally, if there was one drop and all internal wiring, they can put a unity amp and do a home run to every connection.  My thought was to just drop a 10 dB amp on the main line, and then all levels going around to the devices will go up by 10 dB.  The weakest signal will be strong, and the stronger signal stronger.  I figure the amps that Rogers uses would be better quality so packet losses won't happen.  Heck the tap itself has some amps on it so perhaps they can boost the signal at the tap to my home up a few dB and that will improve everything without the amp. I am not keen on having people making additional connections to the house unless they can do something internally as it looks really ugly.

 

Does Rogers have wireless devices so that TV's don't need wiring into every room?  That would really make things easier as there would be only 2 connections:  1 for the TV broadcast device that sends signal to each TV receiver devices in the house, and 1 to the cable modem.

 

FYI, Bell has this type of system and it sounds good:

 

http://www.bell.ca/Fibe-TV/HD-PVR-Receivers

 

 

 

 

 

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Bells ones are convienient that they are wireless.. no wires needed.
But do have drawbacks as well.

Each device does not have its own tuner.. so for each other tv being watched, takes up a tuner on the PVR itself.
You are also at the mercy of having to have good wireless.. poor wireless would be poor quality.

 

Compared to rogers, where each has its own tuner.. is completely its own seperate unit. 
But does require cabling to each room then.

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Alex4161
I'm a Reliable Contributor

I had the Rogers tech come by and he put an amp on one of the runs that have the old RG59 wiring and that increased the signal by 8 dB.

 

My cable modem line he didn't do anything as he said it was very good even though the signal levels to me look low.  Here are the readings:

 

Downstream Overview

Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDSignal noise ratio (dB)
1609000000256QAM-5.100436.387
2591000000256QAM-4.600136.610
3597000000256QAM-3.900237.636
4603000000256QAM-4.200337.356
5615000000256QAM-6.400536.610
6621000000256QAM-7.100635.780
7633000000256QAM-7.600735.595
8639000000256QAM-7.300835.084
9645000000256QAM-7.000935.595
10651000000256QAM-8.3001035.084
11657000000256QAM-8.6001135.084
12663000000256QAM-7.9001235.780
13669000000256QAM-7.9001335.780
14675000000256QAM-7.6001435.780
15681000000256QAM-6.6001536.387
16687000000256QAM-6.4001636.610
17693000000256QAM-6.6001735.780
18699000000256QAM-6.6001836.387
19705000000256QAM-7.3001935.780
20711000000256QAM-7.7002035.780
Upstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDBandWidth
138596000ATDMA - 64QAM40.25013200000
223700000ATDMA - 64QAM37.25036400000
330596000ATDMA - 64QAM38.25026400000

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Alex4161
I'm a Reliable Contributor

I reattached my amp and now my modem levels look better:

 

Downstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDSignal noise ratio (dB)
1621000000256QAM0.600636.387
2591000000256QAM3.200137.356
3597000000256QAM3.700237.636
4603000000256QAM3.300337.356
5609000000256QAM2.600436.610
6615000000256QAM1.200536.610
7633000000256QAM0.200735.780
8639000000256QAM0.300835.595
9645000000256QAM0.800935.780
10651000000256QAM-0.4001035.595
11657000000256QAM-0.9001135.780
12663000000256QAM0.1001235.780
13669000000256QAM0.1001335.780
14675000000256QAM0.4001436.387
15681000000256QAM1.5001536.610
16687000000256QAM1.8001636.610
17693000000256QAM1.6001736.610
18699000000256QAM1.6001836.387
19705000000256QAM1.1001936.387
20711000000256QAM0.6002036.610
Upstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDBandWidth
130596000ATDMA - 64QAM41.00026400000
223700000ATDMA - 64QAM41.00036400000
338596000ATDMA - 64QAM44.00013200000

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

I installed a high speed, PC based router behind my cable modem/router to improve wired LAN speeds. The idea was to remove routing tasks from the cable modem/router to a high speed router.

 

This worked great for many months. In June the quality of the connection between the high speed router and the cable modem/router deteriated significantly. It went from 50% quality to between 10% and 20%. This is according to quality measurements from my high speed router.

 

I think the cable modem/router is breaking down and needs to be replaced.

 

Further evidence is that I get notifications on my cell phone that my wifi connection is limited (the wifi comes from the cable modem/router).

 

I am attaching pics of the quality graphs from the high speed router.

 

I have tried rebooting the cable modem/router with limited improvement (the wifi is limited message went away for 12 hours but came back).

 

Cable modem/router is a Hitron CGN3.

High speed router is a Dell PC running pfSense.

 

I have seen routers used in Small/medium business environments burn them selves out due to high traffic flow. I run between 90GB to 100GB of data per month through the high speed router and cable modem/router.

 

Can anyone speak with authority on whether this is the problem?

 

Thanks!

Internet Quality 1.pngInternet Quality 2.pngInternet Quality 3.pngInternet Quality 4.pngInternet Quality 5.pngInternet Quality 6.png

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Alex4161
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Could you please go to 192.168.100.1 and under the DOCSYS Wan tab and post your signal levels.  This will help determine if your signal is within spec as that itself can cause issues with performance.

 

Thanks

 

 

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

I originally posted this as an Internet Quality issue and was moved to this thread. Here are the signal levels on my modem.

 

Hitron Signal Levels.png

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Well that could be part of your problem.

The optimal signal for the modem is around 0. 
That yours are jumping around from -4 to -8.. there is a weak signal issue.
(the SNR is a little off as well)

 

I would get a tech out to take a look at everything.. replace splitters/connectors as necessary.

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

I'd vote for a tech as well, but, those signal levels are still within spec.  However, looking at your graphs, it appears that you have some packet loss going on.  When those graphs are running, scale down in timeframe so that your essentially seeing the red packet loss in real time.  When you see that occur, and if it continues, or cycles in and out on a regular basis, call tech support and ask the CSR to run a signal check on the modem.  Ask him or her to check for packet loss, noise at your modem and the noise history and to check your neighbors as well.  I don't think that you would see a tech based on the signal levels, but, for packet loss and noise, that's a different situation.  Depending on what the CSR sees, you may see a tech at your home, or its possible that Senior Tech or Maintenance crew might be dispatched to take care of a larger issue.  Just depends on what turns up.



Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Actualy, when the packet loss issue was identified I rebooted the modem and the packet loss stopped (as did the wifi is limited message on my cell phone - breifly). I am not getting packet loss any more but the quality issue continues. This is why I suspect that the cable modem/router is the problem.

 

I push a lot more data through my systems than the average household and I suspect that the Hitron cable modem/router is breaking down. I beleive that I need a more robust cable modem. I probably need a cable modem in line with what would be used at a small to medium business.

 

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

The Hitron modems are not noted for stellar wifi performance.  If good wifi performance is at the top of your list in terms of modem or router capabilities, then you should consider running the modem in Bridge mode and use a third party router.  Preferrably one with external antenna and gigabit WAN and LAN ports.  That will most likely solve the wifi issues.   What are you running now in terms of your internet speeds, 100/10, 250/20?

 

Until then, try this.  Load inSSIDer on your laptop, which is a wifi monitoring application.  When loaded on a dual band laptop, inSSIDer will monitor both 2.4 and 5 Ghz networks that can be detected by your laptop.  Have a look to see what you're competing with in both bands.  In a suburban area, the 2.4 Ghz band is usually pretty crowded and tough to work in.  Usually the 5 Ghz band is less crowded and easier to find a clear channel.  After you have a look at the display, you might be able to determine if there are any 2.4 or 5 Ghz channels that are not in use, or offer less interference.  Thats usually pretty tough with 2.4. Ghz channels as the only channels that don't overlap with each other is 1, 6, and 11.  As a result, everyone tries to use those channels.  The program link below is for the last freebie version.  It doesn't display the 802.11ac networks in use in the 5 Ghz band.  There is a newer licenced version out now that will handle 802.11ac networks, and which will work on a 802.11n laptop.  The new version will read the broadcast management frames and display the 802.11ac networks that are running in the 5 Ghz band.  If you use 5 Ghz networks, its worth the $20 U.S. to buy, so that you can see all of the 5 Ghz networks that are in use.

http://www.techspot.com/downloads/5936-inssider.html

What you want to see on the graphical display is that your network is the highest network shown, which indicates that it has the highest received power of all the received networks.  Generally you want somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 to 45 dBmW separation between your network and any other network that is on the same or overlapping channel.  So, while your network should be the tallest on the display, everything else should be well below yours.  The scale on the display has 0 dBmW at the top, and it then descends from there.  When the power level separation between networks decreases, you end up with interference and possibly with problems maintaining a wifi network.  Your only option is to change to a channel with less overlap from the competition.  By looking at that display you might conclude that the 2.4 Ghz band is hopeless and that its time to move up to the 5 Ghz band, if you can.  If you have devices already running in the 5 Ghz band, change your operating channel to 149 or higher.  If you can switch to any of those channels, do so, as the output power for those channels is higher, resulting in better signal levels, signal to noise ratios and data rates.  

So, with inSSIDer loaded on your laptop, take a walk around your home.  Take a look at the display when you're close to the modem, and where you normally use your laptop.  Essentially, you're doing a site survey.  It takes about three to four minutes for the display to settle out when you move around and stop in a location somewhere.  You should see some differences in the received network power levels as you move around your home, both for your own network, and those of your neighbors.  Perhaps one of your neighbors has bought a new modem or router and is competing for the same channels that you are using.  If so, inSSIDer will show that.
 

What you can do is take a screenshot of the inSSIDer display, dump it into something like Microsoft paint and wipe out your MAC address from the text and display area and then save it.  Insert it into a post so I can have a look at it if you need help with the interpretation.  With the info provided by the inSSIDer display it will be easier to determine what the problem might be.

 



Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

Thank you for the information

 

I run a wifi analyser on my cell phone which uses the 5K channel to connect. All indications are that I have a strong wifi signal on the 5k band with almost no other broadcasters on this frequency.

 

The wifi issue is really not my main concern. Despite the wifi limited message the wifi seems to work fine. I am concerned that this message combined with my network quality issue are indicating a hardware issue with my Hitron modem.

 

I need to get my network quality issues resolved as it is affecting some of my video streaming.

 

 

Re: Can rogers boost my cable signal for the Cable Modem

@Hissanswer, you can talk to the business staff but I suspect that you will find that the modems are the same.  Don't quote me on that one, you would have to check with them.  Possibly one of the mods, such as @RogersMoin can confirm or deny that.  

 

There are a couple of aspects to an issue such as this.  RG-6 cabling and wifi.  In the case of the cabling, your signal levels are fairly far down.  Its possible that your getting short term excursions further down that don't show up in the power levels, but yet, are enough to cause internet service issues.  To check for that possibility you can run a program called pingplotter to monitor the modem to CMTS path and ensure that its running as it should be.  Please have a look at the following post which indicates how to set up pingplotter to monitor the modem to CMTS path:

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Getting_connected/message-id/355...

 

The other aspect to this is wifi.  Understanding that you run a wifi analyzer on your cell phone, I would suggest running inSSIDer on a laptop, or, run the wifi screener in the Diagnostics section of the modem.  The laptop should be more sensitive to wifi signals and will most likely display networks that are running that the cell phone can't detect.  The modem itself should be at the same level as the laptop in terms of wifi signal detection if not better considering that is has three antenna for the 2.4 Ghz networks and three antenna for the 5 Ghz networks.  Its definitely worth having a look at.  You should also set the 5 Ghz channel to 149 or higher as those channels have a higher allowable output power level which will help with signal levels and data rates. 

 

Fwiw, there are others on the forum who run unlimited plans and usually push at least 1Tb or more of data per month.  They use a CGN3xxx or CGNM-3552 modem and have never stated any concerns about the modem itself, cable signal issues  and wifi yes, modem no....



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