CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

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DGB31
I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 5

Re: CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

I really do not understand what you are attempting to read into this but lets parse this out...

 

no later than 90 calendar days after the contract start date... it could be zero days, completely up to Roger's discretion .. this is her to protect the consumer, if unregulated I am sure Roger's would NEVER unlock a phone.

 

at the rate specified by the service provider... again this could be zero, and IF Roger's had any interest building customer  good will, they would adopt a policy to immediately waive the unlock fee.

Just don't attempt to make a case for Roger's not doing this a some sort of regulatory requirement.  It is NOT

Meowmix
I'm a Trusted Advisor
Posts: 32,126

Re: CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

Hello @DGB31

Again please read this part. You are missing this part. No where does it state Rogers can lower the amount of days. It states u can CHARGE whatever they like.

" for subsidized devices: unlock the device, or give the customer the means to unlock the device, upon request, at the rate no later than 90 calendar days after the contract start date.
for unsubsidized devices: unlock the device, or give the customer the means to unlock the device, at the rate specified by the service provider, upon request.""

So Rogers can unlock a subsidized phone AFTER 90 days of the wireless device being used on the same account which is was bought.

Rogers can unlock a phone for a fee immediately once you purchased it outright and not on a contract. I think u keep missing that.

I really hope you can do some research and take your time to contact the CRTC as you are only paying attention to what you want to see and not the actual facts. When contacting the CRTC as i am on the phone with them right now typing this, they are letting me know Rogers and any carrier with the current rules can sell locked phones but have to charge a amount to a customer to unlock the device. This has been a rule since the CRTC brought this up back then as u can see on the link above. The CRTC is the one that put the motion and rules letting the carriers unlock phones at whatever price they want. The CRTC never told the carriers to charge $0 fee to unlock a device. The said and i quote "at the rate the carrier picks to use.

If the CRTC at the time making that rule wanted free unlocking, they would have done it. It wouldn't have taken years later for them to do this. They and the carriers wanted to have customers to pay for the unlocking to be done.

Again if you want to know more and think i am making this up, please feel free to contact the CRTC which made the rules about the unlocking fees and then years later changed it to free.

In the end I have agreed that this should never have happened to begun with. It should ah be always been for free but when the CRTC years ago made that rule that carriers can charge whatever they wanted, the CRTC KNEW the carriers would charge a amount. You really think the carriers don't communicate with the CRTC before the rulings? They do. I know personally 2 people from the CRTC which have been in talks with all carriers before the rules came out.

We can sit here both and go back and forth but in the end it won't make any difference or anything better. Both opinions are different and that's fine.
DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 67

Re: CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

This is a non-issue.  Buy your phones from the manufacturer unlocked.  Problem solved.

The CRTC should be dismantled.  The federal gov't should take steps to do so -- I recall there was some discussion about it.  They serve no purpose whatsoever now.  They cannot even tell me exactly what is regulated and what is not.

When everything was tightly regulated, they overdid it and threw their weight around like bullies, for no good reason.  It was like they were on a power trip.  Then they practically deregulated everything, annoying carriers and consumers -- exchange is "forborne" -- sorry.

Compared to the FCC, they are a joke (and the FCC has become a joke too).  The CRTC doesn't vet technology like the FCC does, and in my view, they are a toothless organization with no understanding of telecom technology.

E911 is a classic example.  THEY and cellular-fanatics (who dropped wireline at the speed of light) and corporations (everything must now be over eye pea) have compromised public safety.

Call 911 from a cell at home and see how fast they can find you if you have a stroke and can't speak your address, or you pass out before you can vs. if you had used a landline and your address flashed on their screen right from the get-go.

You can buy an iPhone from Apple and a blackberry from Blackberry -- unlocked, carrier-agnostic.  Do that.  Pay full price up front, and maybe all that money wasted on a new phone every 12-24 months would  instead go into something more useful instead of Apple's coffers or Google's.

 

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

Amazing how an announcement can let every opinion and emotion come to the surface about our opinions on locking, CRTC, regulation, etc.

 

How about we just say new regulations are coming, and in December we will see what will happen.

 

If I can say this, reading the dialogues, we have moved from the announcement and will Rogers end up charging us all in some manner, to back and forth interpretations (please remember that, an interpretation is just that - it doesn't imply right or wrong, it is just an interpretation.  I have my own on this discussion close to both but won't enter it - nothing to gain that I can see.

 

As we are told, let's keep it polite.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Bruce

Meowmix
I'm a Trusted Advisor
Posts: 32,126

Re: CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

Hello @DominicB

Not everyone has  $700 - $1,400+ for a phone outright. Not everyone wants to max out their cards for a phone so they can pay their credit cards or not pay for it. Remember the devices are not cheap now. 


Carriers / small authorized dealers and the rest give out phones for free for a 2yr term and that brings many to get them as they might not have money as a i said above.

I have money but do not spend that much on a phone. I call Rogers and see what they can do. Offers or not i wont pay that much unless its for a down payments towards a phone or car. That is worth it for me. Again not everyone has that type of money to spend or want to max out their cards for it.

 

In the end this is something welcoming to us that get or got a phone on a contract which is locked and now can get it unlocked December 1st for free.

Meowmix
I'm a Trusted Advisor
Posts: 32,126

Re: CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

Hello @BS

Sadly some take it to the extent to want to argue / fight for no reason.

In the end i made this thread because the CRTC made the ruling that finally we get to unlock our devices for free and from December 1st, all devices come unlocked.

Rogers and all carriers will end up charging us with another fee or raise the pricing on the plans due to it but that is something we will see within the next couple of months.

Again as u said and i said, lets stay polite and on topic ( To the ones that want to change the topic to something else)
DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 67

Re: CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

Folks, what I am saying is I have dealt with the CRTC on other issues and I can tell you, they are disingenuous at best.  This is all a smoke and mirrors game to make them look good and the carriers look bad.

I used to be with Bell (they had fiber right into the home), and the CRTC would use words like "destandardization", "forborne".  Destandardization means Bell could use string and paper cups for my landline if they wanted to.  "We are technology neutral", they would say.  Forborne meant Bell could do whatever it wanted.  We're talking about an essential service here folks.  I had a landline that would drop calls ALL THE TIME, because it was Voice over IP in disguise, from Bell!  And the kicker was Bell was charging the same as if it were a digital circuit landline on copper into a Nortel DMS 100.  It was scattered confetti over fiber.

You are paying the highest rates in the world for cellular service because of their policies.  Carriers can charge whatever they want, but have to due to market forces.  This cost will simply be moved somewhere else.  Your voice/data plans aren't regulated.  When I worked for Bell 20 years ago, every rate increase had to be approved by the CRTC.

So an iPhone costs a thousand bucks -- well, how is Rogers gonna recover that cost over two years if they can't lock you in? -- they add it on to your plan -- that's how.  Contract?  There were never any contracts in the olden days.

You're not getting a freebie or an iPhone at 80% off.  And they can charge the same for a BYOD that you bought from the Apple store -- THAT SHOULD BE DISALLOWED.  That's bonus points for the carrier.

I'm not even sure how they can do this -- they seem to make up the rules as they're going along.  If rate plans can be whatever, under what authority can they say X can't charge you extra?  I don't get it.  Perhaps the law should be, lockable cell phones are illegal in Canada commencing on date X.

Deregulated means deregulated.  They can't have it both ways.  Are you paying less than you did when it was a monopoly?  I sure ain't.  The only thing they can regulate are the frequencies, so someone explain under what authority they can do this.  They let the cat out of the bag long ago.

As for buying a new cell phone for a grand every two years, if people did that with wireline phones, they'd be locked up in a mental institution, but on cellular, it's OOOOOOOOOOKAY.  Man, that's $500 a year.  Now we know why everybody dropped landlines and where all that money went.

Look at what happened with skinny cable.  They obviously didn't think things through on that one.  They made it so I can't get a rock solid landline to back up my cell.  I don't hold Rogers to the same standard, because their wireline infrastructure was never capable of circuit switched calls.  Once my cell went kaput and I couldn't find a payphone.  So, now I need two cells?

That unlocking fee is a drop in the bucket compared to what you're overpaying, and it is the CRTC's fault ... because the market is so cut throat now.

DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 67

Re: CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

@Meowmix  Nothing is for free.  Rogers is not giving you that phone for free.  They are spreading the cost over the contract.  Rogers bought those phones from Samsung, Apple, Blackberry and paid for them.

You're on a contract.  Your cancellation penalty reflects the cost of that phone.  The only reason to unlock is to switch carriers.  In Canada, you don't have much choice -- it's either Rogers/Fido, Bell, or Telus.

The only other reason to unlock is if you are travelling and want to pop in a SIM, assuming your phone can handle the bands in wherever-land.

However, this puts the carrier at risk that you can abandon the contract because you can use the phone they paid for on a competitor's network -- unless they can blacklist it.  I believe only stolen devices can be blacklisted.

I believe the phone should be unlocked free of charge when the contract is complete, but by then, you'll want the iPhone17, so you won't care.

I'm not trying to criticize anyone and you'll see a lot of humor in what I'm saying  -- I have dealt with the CRTC.  They were ... aloof over a matter of 911 ALI, which spoke volumes on their attitudes towards protecting Canadians.

DominicB
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 67

Re: CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

@Meowmix @BS  It's just a PR move by the CRTC in an attempt to boost their image.  Nobody likes them and they're trying to change their image.  There's no reason to unlock unless you're a frequent overseas traveller who wants to pop in a SIM from a carrier there, provided your phone's frequency bands are compatible with theirs -- they always seem to be off by 50 or 100 MHz.

Bell and Telus -- good luck.  You may as well just get on your roof and send smoke signals instead.  I tried Telus once and they sent me a nano SIM instead of a micro.  Bell ... I shall withhold comment.  They don't even do CNAM (Caller ID Name) on cellular and they're ILECs.



Meowmix
I'm a Trusted Advisor
Posts: 32,126

Re: CRTC bans locked phones and carrier unlocking fees as of December 1st 2017

Hello @DominicB

As my family members do travel a lot for them this is something for a win. They like this and thus i wont go disappoint them. For us, we know the truth and see other things.

in the end this is to each their own right. Even if i switch from Rogers, it wont be Bell or Telus. Not even