Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

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I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

I've been having an issue for a few days now where my internet would stop working every evening around dinner time and not work correctly for most of the night. What made it really odd was that for about 15 seconds of every minute my connection would be working normally. Then it would act as though I had pulled out my network cable. During this the lights on my modem all look normal. I wound up sitting around this morning waiting for a support guy to arrive, and he gave me a new modem. Didn't help at all.

 

I just figured out the problem...they're doing some kind of traffic shaping that gets triggered by the PlayStation 3 Netflix application. As soon as I start the app the connection to my entire home goes down, and that's just getting to the index screen. I'm not even streaming anything at that point. Once every minute it unblocks my connection to check and see if the offending application is still trying to access the internet, at which point it shuts me off again. If I close Netflix my internet resumes working like it should. If I open it in the middle of the day, or really late at night (like after midnight) it also works normally.

 

I guess this is what they mean when they say they're not going to shape traffic anymore. If you're using a service that competes with a service they provide, they simply cut you off instead of slowing you down.

 

 

***edited labels***

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Social Media Specialist
Social Media Specialist
Posts: 81

Re: Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

Hi spin, you're welcome to your opinion but what you're accusing us of is inaccurate and untrue. We no longer manage our network in any way. Please refer to our updated network management policy here:

http://www.rogers.com/web/content/network_management

There are a variety of factors that could contribute to what appear to be symptoms of network management. I suggest you reach out to us and tech support will be happy to investigate further.
@Rogers_Chris
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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,233

Re: Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

While I was unable to reply last night, I did test around 9:45 at my  home, and Netflix on my bluray and TV and xbox, did all connect and play correctly.

 

It may be something else going on.  Not to exclude rogers 100% of the blame, it could be overselling in your area (not sure where you are), which is causing other general overall just bogging down of the network during those times.. that something could be going on where the Netflix is just overloading the connection... and at other times of the day when less people are on, the overcrouding/bottlenecking could not be there, therefor fine.



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I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

If the problem was simply bottlenecking then I wouldn't be able to stream any HD video, which I can through youtube. If I run netflix from my iPad or through my browser then it works fine. It's strictly the PS3 Netflix app that trips something which causes Rogers to 100% cut off my internet.

 

A technician was already here and verified that the line is in perfect working order and gave me a new modem just to be sure. Also, the network management page Chris so "helpfully" linked to says that they've stopped doing management of P2P traffic.

 

"1. Why does Rogers manage traffic on its network?

Rogers is committed to ensuring the best possible online experience for all our valued customers.
2. How Does Rogers manage its network?
Rogers uses a variety of network management techniques. These techniques have evolved as the Internet has changed. We continue to manage the network to limit spam, viruses and other security threats."
 
Saying that you no longer manage your network is very clearly not true, based on the text of your own policy. If I was using P2P to download movies I'd have no problems at all. The issue is directly related to a single service that competes with a Rogers product.
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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,233

Re: Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

P2P is the ONLY traffic shaping rogers has ever done.

As you have said yourself, you can stream netflix from your ipad/brower just fine.  Therefore, they are NOT blocking something that competes with them.  netflix DOES work, by your own admitance.

ALL netflix traffic, would use the exact same protocols/ports, and connect to the same place in the end.. thats the only way they COULD shape the traffic.. and then would effect all devices.

This sounds more like a netflix + PS3 more application issue.  Could be something its overloading the connections out, etc, something to that means.

 

While i am not sure on the devices they are connecting from.. there are TONS of people on here regularily, that are netflix users, which are complaining, about USAGE caps, as with netflix they are going over.  They are obviously able to use netflix just fine and not being blocked.



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I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

Your assumption is that all netflix clients will go to the same address to retrieve content. I would be utterly shocked if this were true. All the clients I've seen use different formatting and volumes of data, and would not be using the same web services. An intelligent design for a service delivering that volume of data would be for each client "type" to connect to it's own server, and then have all of those servers connect to a main distribution hub. That isolates each client from each other and allows one to muck things up without bringing everything down across the country.

 

Now, my PS3 client has not changed, and it isn't even pulling a large amount of data on the index screen. If the problem was with the client itself then it would be limited to the client simply not working. It wouldn't take my entire home offline. Nothing changed in my home on the day the problem started occuring. That means hardware and software were all identical to the previous week. That means the problem exists on the infrastructure outside of my home.

 

You can say that they've only ever shaped P2P traffic, but you seem to forget that there was a time when they denied doing that too. They were pretty inept at it for a while too, doing things like inserting RST packets into *all* of my web traffic after using a P2P application for a few minutes...for an entire day. Connection worked great after I put in a firewall rule blocking all traffic from the offending Rogers server. That was an attempt at shaping that literally broke my network connection for all traffic, though it was accidental. I would be very surprised if the same kind of accidental mishap is not occuring again. They may not even intentionally be targetting PS3 Netflix traffic, but the effect is the same regardless of intent.

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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,233

Re: Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

Right, it may be something accidental that is effecting it from Rogers end.
But your initial thing said they were targeting Netflix, which isn't happening as a whole. The chances of them specifically targeting JUST te one venue, would be unlikely.

Best way to narrow down it....
If another user with a ps3 here could check theirs to see if it does the same at the same timeframe.
Try your ps3 on someone else's Internet (Rogers or even better a competitor) and see if the same thing happens.

While I understand that you didn't do anything/change anything on the ps3, we need to illiminate all possibilities.


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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,233

Re: Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

I am sorry if earlier in the thread, if it seems like i was trying to discredit you completely, it wasnt my intention.. i agree it still could be something rogers end, more likely accidental. 

There was such a big hoohaa over the P2P thing.. and that was only officialy reported to the CRTC by under 100 people.. if there was this done on purpose, you can image how big of a backlash there would be!  A few more than 100

 

It might seem that i am placing the blame on you/your end.. which i am not trying to say.

I work in the IT support industry.  8/10 times, a problem doesnt have a clear direction as to where the the problem is actualy caused.
You need to try EVERY venue and possibility, to narrow down what is/may be causing it... including compare to others, to see if its just you or multiple people.

(IE:  In the past had a network issue (very similar to this), where it would take down the whole work network.  Traced it down to what PC, no virus's, etc causing it.  Changed the port on the switch, same thing.  Changed the cable running to the desk, same thing.  Change the plugs on both ends, same thing.  Re-install windows.. same thing.  Ends up it was a flakey network card :P)



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I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 6

Re: Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

I think what Chris meant is that Rogers really doesn't manage its network... as in, they are incapable and do not have the necessary technical skills to do so.

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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,233

Re: Another ham-fisted attempt at traffic shaping

Capable? Yes.. I manage hardware, which is EXPENSIVE ($3500 switches) which can do many times of traffic management, filtering, restricting, directing... so I am SURE that the hardware rogers uses, can do it.

Now.. that they have the right people, running them, etc to be able to USE those tools... that is another story all together 😛