Wireless Plans & Pricing

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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Wireless Plans & Pricing

Although all this discussion is interesting, it really still doesn't provide any clear direction of how to deal with increasing pricing and being forced out of being able to afford services.

 

Unfortunately, there are lots of reasons why we are being priced out, and there is little change coming in the near future, so the only option lies in finding what less one can do with, because if it is out of one's price range, you either have to give up some services (and in some cases you may not be able to find a reasonable replacement, so you rethink your needs versus wants, and what you can live without - yes that requires a new mind set and significant changes to your communication and entertainment needs.).

 

But let's look at it this way, consider you were moving from an area that represented that 95% of coverage of all Canadians. That means that of the 5% remaining - about 1.5 million people or more, they don't have access to services, period. So they find alternative ways to live - the same goes for Internet - many people live outside of urban areas, and are restricted to ADSL, or satellite down with phone connection, and TV is the same.

 

So I wish there was an answer to the original poster, you are not really going to get the answer you would like to hear from any of the reps from any of the big three - it is all about making everything better, being the best, and charging high prices in order to maintain profits, and those of us who get priced out have to leave and find alternatives ways to support our needs.  It is similiar to what I remember about 20 years ago when car prices began to sky rocket, then we had an economic downturn, and I remember counting the number of 10 year old cars and greater on the road and the rare new ones, and eventually, competition came in from outside of North American manufacturers, and then gradually North american manufacturers began to find ways to produce cars for cheaper and producing an affordable, and competitive product, because there were so many ways you could buy a car and manufacturers, and used car, and car ads, pass me downs, etc.  The industry had to shift, and they almost went bankrupt in the process.

 

If we suddenly saw an economic downturn at this point in time, we would be seeing subsribers and services drop like level, and there are more and more posts about affordably coming up, but for now, we have little choice but to seriously look around, and at the end of the day get less and spend less in order to meet items of live needs that we really can't give up on.

 

Wish it was different, but the CRTC is trying hard to help us, but the providers fight tooth and nail, and always have reasons why they can't do it, yet they always seem to find a way once forced, then gradually, they start pushing the price and mix upwards in different ways, and we go at it again.

 

Great discussion.  A reality of life for some of us now - TV, high speed Internet, and grand cell phone data plans are luxuries for some of us as we age or become ill, or lose jobs, or just live with increasing prices of everything and no increases in salary.  You can only squeeze so much from our wallets before we cry uncle.

 

Bruce

I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 665

Re: Wireless Plans & Pricing

Good post Bruce.
The baby boomers start retiring in ever increasing numbers over the next several years and a greater percentage of the population will be living on fixed incomes. It will be interesting to see, how or if, companies will adjust to more consumers unwilling or unable to accept ever increasing price points.
I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 766

Re: Wireless Plans & Pricing

But  they  only cover the populated areas here .... where as in the States they seem to pretty much cover the whole country  ...thinly populated areas and all .  Smiley Wink

 

The one thing I noticed  is that  the companies here should certainly have no reason to go bust  and therefore your service is  pretty much guaranteed all be it expensive  .. . whereas south of the border there  may be more competition  and lower prices  but there also seems to be more companies going bust . What does that do for your cell phone reliability ?

As Bruce has mentioned as well I believe ... if your lifestyle  is not dependant on having the latest and greatest  features  and you aren't reliant on  the telecommunications sector  ... prices aren't that  bad .  Now the service and product  information availability ...that is a whole nother kettle of fish .

I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 2

Re: Wireless Plans & Pricing

They will only increase their prices as the newcomers do not have the monetary restrictions that hinders the older generation.  When was last time you saw a Corporation operating in Canada lower any kind of prices?

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Wireless Plans & Pricing

Thanks @barndoor  we think alike, and that is why we interact a lot.

 

I will rephrase your last comment a bit:

 

 "Now the service and product  information availability ...that is a whole nother kettle of fish ."

 

Do you actually mean absence of straight up and honest service and product information that doesn't take the consumer hours upon hours to dig through the options, only to have them change the mix up one more time".

 

My own personal feeling, is that this is the way of business these days, always a justification why we "need" the big and better, without asking if we needed it when we were actually doing fine and quite happy with what we had, then the marketing comes at us, quietly manipulating our beliefs from wants that are being met, to suddenly imply they are "needs" and that we actually need more, even though as I said, "I don't need it".

 

But technology changes we are told, at it makes improvements in life (yes, for healthcare, diagnostic tools, imaging, comunication in companies, autmation (oh forgot that leads to loss of basic skill jobs, like a secretary or receptionist), so was it really good for the economy and all of us - but that is another discussion too).

 

When you no longer earn what you did just 5 years ago, before this rat race of increasing technology and prices began in full speed, the light begins to come on when you are on fixed income, that none of these are needs, well maybe ability to communicate and Internet - and that is the reason for govenment funding to support those who can't afford, and in the states, yes coverage almost everywhere - we had cell phone in the middle of nowhere in a rural part of the states, and they got Internet that they shared to the customers of the resort, and charged each of us a fair price - zero for slow speed, 50 dollars for the week if you wanted faster, and yes there were definitely peak times that we all worked with and by the end of the week, we no longer noticed speed - I watched Netflix because there was little TV available - my daughter was with us, and we watched Xfinity from their home service, and we were on all of 7Mbs down, no caps.  so it can be done, and the argument that Canada is large with less people and huge amounts of low density population, so it makes it more expensive than the US.  Travel the US and see just how much empty space for miles upon miles, mountains, swamps, desert and places where no one lives at all, yet they have some limited coverage in all those areas.

 

So I don' t buy the Canadian argument at al - the big three just won't let the little guy get in.

 

In the states, they did not decommision their CDMA, and lower bands, they left them on the towers because FCA forced them to and those are provided to low income people - slow unlimited data and phone and text unlimited, and discounted phone - all subsidized by the massive consumer base in the big cities, and little to no subsidizing by government - just regulation that the companies have to keep these networks active, charge a fair price to suppliers for maintenance, and no they don't make it available to regular customers, just the poor - defined as government subsidies.

 

But our companies just turn it all off as they have told us about CDMA - time to write a letter to my MP the deputy to the Prime Minister conviently, and say, let's get a american model in place and stop letting the big ones, drop the lower bands, as they take on the new bands - going down in future, makes us pay for more expensive new technology, the new bandwidth, while removing ways to provide accessable services to al.

 

This is the mandate of the ministry and CRTC at the moment is to work with providers to provide affordability and fair pricing choices to all.

 

We will see what the future brings - and this was a concept being pushed by all parties, as we are Canadian afterall, and we do believe in defining some services (Inernet at a useable level speed and bandwidth choice, and cell phone coverage) as a need for success and ability to contribute fully to society and the economy.

 

So for now, in closing, we do what we have to do, with little assistance from the companies, except sort of saying this is how it is, while not putting forward, this is all we have chosen to give, and you can't afford it.

 

So my answer, is define a price you can handle, and then say this is what I am willing to pay, lets talk about what you can offer, after doing some homework on what all options are, and knowing you may likely have to give some things up.  but who hasn't had to give things up now and then, time for leisure and work, to have leisure and work with kids, work and leisure versus volunteering, or frivalous entertainment to numb our brains from the rat race, (I was part of it too, so I am speaking from experience), food vesus telecom, cable, eating out, etc.

We define what we need and want and make our choices, but don't expect our providers to really try hard to fully understand our needs before they try to sell you more than you already have.

 

As the CRTC says in their check list, your power over telecom at this time, is first know your needs, your preferences, the costs, and what you can pay, then ask for it, negotiate and stand firm, then make a choice in an educated manner.

 

Enough, I must be bored and at home alone and need people to talk to. Wife stuck in CT, with dead car, not using Roam like home, communicating as we always did with WIFI - used one day of Roam like home to deal with emergencies, texts and phone calls - one broken car, then together with daughter picks them up, and they get hit by deer.  Now they use our daughter's very inexpensive data and cell time that the US offers, and she still uses it little and has a minimum plan, because she doesn't need it and refuses to pay telecoms for things that she doesn't use.

 

Yes they could use 911, but a basic service level is important to have in place, because if we all used 911 and emergency services, that would increase that load and increase taxes, so how about the shareholders share in this cost too.

 

On that note, I am done philosophizing , now back to the real world, and finding options,  need to see if my neighbours are home so I can talk to someone.

 

All the best to all in finding services that are affordable and meet your needs.  For those who can afford the higher levels, go for it, I was once that way too, but remember to once and a while think about us that can't and demand that companies provide a basic affordable level for those who need it and can't afford their new bottom tiers.  You may be there someday too, illness, emergencies, loss of jobs, etc can hit at any time.

 

done preaching.

 

Bruce

I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 515

Re: Wireless Plans & Pricing


@BS wrote:

@Ruthie58  In answer to your question of what to do, these are the things I have learned -

  

Remember, all our Share Everything plans come bundled with a lot of value included, such as:  

 

  • Worry-free Data Management  (that is a good feature - everyone offers it, and it has always been there, you just had to phone in)
  • Roam Like Home

(another good feature, if it benefits you - think carefully about it - my wife went to US today, made one text to me to say she was across boarder, and has contacted me via WIFI three times on stops and at her final destination via Facebook.  So it cost her 5.00 versus .75  No savings there for her usage pattern, we developed years ago to avoid roaming costs - we have no data, so if she did data it owuld be 5.00 + 7.50 for day.  No the full details of your options - if you don't want it, unenroll from it buy chatting or calling in.  You can turn it on anytime you need it.

 

 


Hi Bruce et al,

 

Do you have an opinion or answer to this question.

Intro. I have the Share Everything plan with my wife with a 2 GB shared data limit. Over the last 2 years we have used less than a gig of data between us each month.  Somehow this month, both our iphones updated the IOS over the Roger LTE instead of our wifi (or one of us used the phone to watch TV).  So, we are now 7MB over our limit with 1 day to go!  The plan says overage fees are $15 per 1GB.  

Question:

Does this mean I don't get charged $15 until I go over by 1 GB?  

Or will they charge me on a pro-rated basis?  

Or will they charge me $15 if I go over my 2GB by a measly 1MB? 

 

Just curious at the moment as I'll find out when I get our bill.  But considering the number of times I paid for 2GB of data and did't use it, this Rogers overage charge mechanism seems to be very one-sided. I'll keep you posted. Smiley Wink 

 

Plan Details
  • Billed Usage-Invoice Details
  • 2GB Shared Data
  • Unltd Shared Canadian LD Mins
  • Unltd Shared Text/Pic/Video
  • Call Forwarding/Call Transfer
  • Call Display
  • Unltd Nationwide Video Call
  • Between Us Calling
  • Worry-free data management  -   ??
  • Overage fees are $15 per 1 GB

 

 

Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 644

Re: Wireless Plans & Pricing

Hello @User14,

 

I know how important it is to understand your plan to ensure you do not get any data overage charges when your bill comes around.

 

The way the plans are currently setup once you go over your data limit regardless of by how much you will be charged the data overage fee of $15.00. At that point, you can use up to a 1GB of additional data before facing more overage charges.

 

We strongly recommend making use of the Data Top-Up option that will be offered to you when you are close to the limit. It's also recommended to utilize the Data Manager feature via your My Rogers profile either by the App or the Rogers website. Data manager will allow you to turn off data once you are close to your limit so you do not go over.

 

I hope this helps!

 

Regards,

 

RogersTony

I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 515

Re: Wireless Plans & Pricing


@RogersTony wrote:

Hello @User14,

 

I know how important it is to understand your plan to ensure you do not get any data overage charges when your bill comes around.

 

 

I hope this helps!

 

Regards,

 

RogersTony


You are absolutely righ Tony. People need to understand the plans. I can address the unfairness of the terms and conditions of these Rogers plans for people like Ruthie58 and others who feel the costs are too high. It isn't just that the costs are high, there are also sneaky ways to make more money from consumers do not read the fine print.

 

First, the internet plan has an overage charge of $1.50/GB whereas the wireless share everything plan has an overage charge of $15/GB.  It is a BIG difference which is really unfair because it is unsupported in terms of cost recovery rationale. $3/GB would be more appropriate but people often forget to turn off their data roaming! As mentioned you can manage your wireless plan data allocation by shutting it off using Data Manager. Your internet plan is only data and you need to ensure you are using your wifi.  I need to point out that the cost of $1.50 per GB is a lot cheaper for the internet overage than Changing Your Internet Package.  It is not necessary to pay for unlimited internet if you can track your monthly internet usage and just get what you need to save the costs.  The fact that you CAN'T top up if you go over your wireless allocation is another trap for the consumer. By the time you notice it is too late.   

 

The second unfair practice is that you loose the data allocation that you do not use each month. You can't bank it for when you go over the limit.  In other words people who are paying for more data than they use are really being ripped off each month. 

 

The third unfair practice is not allowing you to move data allocations you have paid for between the wireless and internet.   For example I have paid for internet data that could cover my overage on my wireless data. 

 

The fourth unfair practice is what I am testing right now.  I have just gone over my wireless allocation by 8MB on a 2 GB allocation. I am going to be charge $15 for 1GB. I rarely used the 2GB so I won't use all of the 1GB. As I mentioned above, you can't just pay for the small MB amount that you go over.   

 

This post is to point out to users that the actual details of all these plans and the skewed terms and conditions are unfairly slanted in favour of the service provider.   The poor consumer is not actually told the details of these tricks when they sign up.  It's buyer beware, so just to show everyone what I am talking about here are the facts related the one instance where I inadvertently went over my 2GB wireless allocation by 8MB.  It has increased 50% for $15 iaw the T&C, and my add data option is cut off.   It is a sick game with no referee. Smiley Sad

 

Know the devil in the detail and pick the plan that is best for you. 

 

Unfair Wireless Plan.png  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Wireless Plans & Pricing

@User14  I agree with the statements that customers need to understand their plans in their fullest.

 

I present a couple of other challenges - as some who know me, I have a cognitive disability - it doesn't stop me from thinking, just presents challenges for me to understand what I read - I have what is known as a print disability, that is recognized by the CNIB as something they respond to like visual disabilities.

 

Much of the "fine print", is now much clearer than it used to be, but I describe my recent experience.

 

1. We changed a plan 2 days before the end of month and were aware that there would be a 2 day proration - I know this from a number of years back when there were limited text plans - well, not a soul mentioned this to me.  I wasn't concerned because I had been marketed a limited international plan with limited texts to 25 per month (about 2 for the last two days), so prorating an unlimited plan (which I thought they were giving me), makes no difference related to overages.

 

Not a mention of the proration, the limited texts (even though I asked for the same internation text I had been on before - it turns out the staff clicked the wrong code, or at least that was the explanation after reading the notes).

 

So 2 days later, I find out I am on the wrong plan when I see usage on MyRogers limited to 25 texts to U.S.  Well they fix it quickly, but I then get overages on the first two days.

 

If when the person made the error, they had explained the limitation on number of texts, and costs of overages, I would have known right away that I was  on the wrong plan.  I got that fixed with some debate because the rep I spoke to described them as valid charges - I said, valid charges and application of terms of service to an error by their staff and had to ask to escalate - when I did, he fixed it.l

 

Well, a month later, I buy a new phone, I am told all about my plan and feature sets on my phone including WI-FI calling, but they don't provide me a copy of terms of service for that service, nor did the confirmation via email ever come, even though the person asked me explicitly if I wanted an email confirmation, which I said, definitely, and I do hope he clicked the right button.  A few days later, I get a tech to email me a copy of the screen log, not the confirmation, he says it was clicked to send it to me, but obviously it did not come.  Hard to understand terms when they don't supply them.

 

So my point is that when we buy a service, or product, the CSR's are now reading from a bullet point script to identify all components of the service, how about giving us the link to each of the relevant terms of service, so that we can read them before we say yes - that is a true contractual process - not buyers remorse built in because they give us the terms after we agree.  This is on the level of the door to door furnace guys and the now legal buyers remorse, but at least we do have buyers remorse required and demanded in regulation by the CRTC and escalation process, but how about letting us know up front.

 

In my case due to my disability, it cannot merely be read to me - I need the electronic copy in front of me so that I can zoom, and I can use highlighters and sticky notes to summarize it all for me, then ask the person if I have it right - it is the way my brain works now.

 

Just because I can be articulate here, no one knows how long it takes to get my ideas together but me, nor how long and how many times I have to read a post to see that I don't lose my focus.  I end up editing in that brief period a lot as I catch my errors in thought that I didn't notice earlier.

 

So I say the company has a long way to go to not just having fair and consistent pricing in the terms (that is all business decisions on their part that we are not privy to their rationale, so about all we can do is rant anyway, or choose to not go forward with that service if we can find options), but more important, their communication and the ability to find terms is not all that easy to find, and almost impossible at times for someone like myself.

 

I have to now say up front that I have a disability and tell them exactly how they have to communicate with me as required by law, but we all have the right to ask them to give it in a format and keep asking questions until it is in a way we can understand it.

 

Misunderstanding takes two sides in the communication, it lies in how well the communication met the communication abilities of the listener, and on our side, we can say legitimately, we don't understand, even if it is a marketing and profit driven price decision, then once we get our information, we can make "educated and fully informed decisions".

This would go a long way to avoiding the customer issues that often show up here of people questioning their plans, the terms, etc - yes sometimes people don't read the fine print, but often it can be very difficult to find.  Saying go to Rogers.com does not tell us where we need to go - Rogers.com at its first landing is a marketing page, and way down at the bottom is legal, communication and other information.

 

So I am saying, customers almost need a flow chart - the CRTC has a flow chart and steps to negotiating best price available for purchasers, there used to be a flow chart of escalation available, but the CRTC has that two, and in addition to knowing the terms of service relevant to your range of service (keep everything in a single file, and any documents you don't get, request them - as under the CRTC rules, confirmations are expected to be mailed within 15 days, unless we expressly agree to electronic distribution via our email - my guess is that is why they now ask the question explicitly, like they ask explicitly do we decline warranty protection).

 

And slow down when purchasing, let the excitement of your new service or device ride a bit, then get down to the nitty gritty of making sure you understand and have all the information available to you. For every service, say like you have voice mail - ask the full details of what type and any terms of service, Roam like home - what does that mean and terms, WIFI calling - what does that mean and terms.

 

Quick access to most terms is available at: http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=NEW_GCT&_nfls=true&setLanguage=en&temp...  A pdf is available for each, so take your time with them, in conjunction with your confirmation and if you don't get it, demand it - the remorse period under CRTC doesn't start until you have it, although it also doesn't start until you activate, and by activating, you have implicitely accepted the terms, so get them first before you activate.

 

You will also find them at the bottom of the rogers site 3rd row, top line and if you don't understand, then go contact us and get clarification on any detail you don't fully understand.

 

Buyer be educated and beware.

 

The costs of many of our services in total is often a large percentage of what we pay for rent, hydro, gas, insurance, and I do hope we all read those closely too, and the annual cost is often what some of us pay for a used car, and again, I do hope we all read those terms well too, but those terms are usually fully on the back of the purchase orders, not on a web site.

 

My rant for the day on that one.  They have improved greatly on communicating a lot of this stuff, but still have a way to go, so we have to keep letting them know where they have succeeded, and where they are still lacking.

 

I find the forum is useful for getting my thoughts together with others, and the moderators often can help us too, but at the end of the day, you can write your suggestions to the office of the president. I have found in past they do listen, but they are limited as we are in choices as pricing and marketing is defined much higher than they have access to, but you can at least express your feelings fully.

 

As I have learned - do read those terms, all of them.

 

Bruce

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Wireless Plans & Pricing

@User14

 

My understanding of the share data plans you have (I don't personally have share plans, I have unshared plans, one with small data and the other without). 

 

As Tony has clarified those are your current options - I don't know if it is too late to buy a top up - top ups are usually cheaper than the overage costs, but that means you have to watch the data management tool, cut the data off, then decide whether you want a top up or not, but at least you have that option.

 

They don't give that option to unshared plans - we control our data by turning it off at the device level, and the use of our phone services, are always delayed, and often inaccurate, so we monitor at the phone level along with it.

 

Kind of builds a certain level of paranoia about data and cost overages, and kind of defeats the whole concept of enjoying the pleasure of your phone experience (at least for me, but I am an anxious person by definition of my disability).  That is why I don't have data, period, my wife does.

 

It is unfortunate that our "modern cell phones", make it so difficult to control all options to restrict data access and we get caught this way, but the companies now do give us options on how to minimize it, but we typically have to get caught at least once before we can fully understand and figure it out.

 

My wife's practice - she wanders around with data turned off, not just roaming data, turns it on when she needs to, has all background processes restricted to wifi only, and all updates to wifi only - we have Android and there are still some things that slip through.  And we use 500 MB only and never reach that so far.

 

So maybe a discussion once the bill comes in can get some consideration, but at least, you have learned a bit more with a bit of pain.  Now that is something I can understand far too well and understanding our plans in advance of these hits rather than afterwards, is not something that in my experience, Rogers does very well at fully explaining to us.

 

As I say in my new push - read everyone of those terms of references, and if unclear, call and ask for clarification, provide a whole bunch of possible scenarios and ask implications and if any suggestions are available to avoid it.

 

And certainly, as you did, reach out to us and I think we all have burned once or twice and have found a whole list of tricks to use with our practices and phones to avoid overages.

 

Anyone know how to set an i-phone to upgrade on WIFI only, not LTE?

 

And only other piece of advice, if you think it may have been a movie - search the Internet for how much data a typical movie uses, learn with the app and account options the different resolution options, and choose the time and options that will help you avoid it - I watch online movies in HD, and on my phone, videos are restricted to 480 or 720.

 

Wish there were easy answers, but Tony has given you the basic elements of tools and terms as they apply to you.  I think you also get 90% warning and 100% warnings, but they are always a bit behind in general, so you have to try to predict ahead.

 

Hope this helps and guides you on a few additional steps to avoid it, but do clarify whether you can apply the top up after the fact - that one I don't know.

 

Bruce