Frustrating Customer Service

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I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 766

Re: Frustrating Customer Service

@lockdown2341 wrote:

And we've come full circle on the conversation. As I've said, in my experience working as customer service for wireless service, both here and elsewhere, there has never been an instance where you can go back to a grandfathered plan once it has been changed. I cannot speak for the company obviously but I am 99.9% certain that it couldn't be done. This would be regardless of a previously made offer; once it's changed, it's changed.


Also, as I stated before, if this offer you were given was something that was documented on your account, then it is something that we should be able to honor. The only reason we would not honor something is if we had no proof on our end that the offer was made.

I understand your point of no return to the exact plan but I bet there is a 99.9% chance that they could provide something equivalent.

If they want to . That is what blows me away about this is the arrogance of the company . The customer would still have a phone , a company rep either by accident or design has deleted a grandfathered account and the company can't comeup with an equivalent  .... that's sad . 

A common feeling I'm getting in these discussions is, these are the plans,  if you don't like them tough.  I would think that the company that does the best job of tailoring their plans to their customers needs would likely drum up a little more business than the one that just takes the customers that fits it's plans .  Smiley Wink


My daughter followed along the same line as Johnny and others .... another carrier had a plan that matched her needs with few extra's to add additional expense  and it was $12 a month cheaper than the closest Rogers plan .... ironically, they even use the Rogers network ....   Smiley LOL










I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,152

Re: Frustrating Customer Service

Yes, take a look at some of the third party plans out there - example, 7-11 stores, Petro Canada - they have very comprehensive plans with everything that Rogers has and they actually run on the Rogers network.  They have a wide selection of plan choices, ways to pay - prepaid, autopayment, topups, etc and dramatically cheaper, and yes, their phones may be of a slightly lesser quality than the top end phones at Rogers and your competitors, but we all don't need a Samsung or I-phone. Some of us are quite happy with a middle of the road phone that does everything we need.  Or you just buy your phone outright, get what you want, and pay it off at the speed and rate you choose, and get a lower cost plan with just your specific needs. Turn on what you need when you want, turn it off when you don't.


Beyond the fact that both my daughters have been "burned" in miscommunication with Rogers which completely soured their taste for Roger's business practices, they gave up very inexpensive grandfathered plans with wide choice of options to pay a little bit more than they used to on the plan associated with their parents because they left on principle that they would not watch their father go through the "here we go again", with trying to get Rogers to admit first that they miscommunicated, did not fully educate the customer, and sold a plan that was not even appropriate.  Up to the presidents level, I did get something to compensate, but the reality is they are gone.  They have watched me go through this far too much.


So I will reiterate - there are plans and options out there that are much better than Rogers - is their customer service any better - I was complimenting Rogers on their efforts to improve through training and policy to their staff (that millions of dollars they committed) to improving customer relations, up until about 6 months back. I am not back to the opinion that the money spent has not provided a long lasting change in the culture,that we are back to the perception being created for the customer as stated just before, that we feel that the message now is these are our plans, take it or leave it, and the ever incessant marketing pitch that the cost of subsidizing a phone over two years is higher than over three years, that makes total sense to me, but I don't buy subsidized phones, never have - I fully understand that the cost of the phone is built in, and I have very good credit plans and a practice of putting my own money away every month to pay for the emergencies in life, like replacing a lost or broken phone - just the say we did my daughters lost phone. I make money in my higher interest account and always have the money to repair roofs, repair cars, deal with a lost job for a few months, leaking basement, etc, and pay for phones.


So my question to those who say that it is more expensive to subsidize phones over two years rather than three - how about those of us who don't subdisize phones - why are we expected to pay the same, or very close to the subsidized plans.  So I am sorry, even though I have heard that line over and over again, and it holds ground for the people who just have to have the newest best phones, there are lots of us who don't.  And you are leaving us no options but to move on. And that won't be to Bell, or Telus - they are the same, but their are the sister companies - like Virgin (Bell), Fido (Rogers), so I am making the point that do listen to the sales and marketing scripts from Rogers - look at how they meet your needs, don't complain too much about how they don't meet your needs (they aren't really listening is my perception), but they will listen if we are trickling away from them, because when we trickle away, so does our home phones, our Internet, and our Cable - very good alternatives are available to all of these services.


I am proud of the fact that my daughters learned my frugal model of looking at wants versus needs - we don't need a new phone every 2 years, or the next best thing (unless you want it - different from a need), and nothing comes free in live, but value for money is an individual decision, not to be driven by the marketers.  It reminds me of the truth in advertising ads, in particular the one with all the bands and clowns and mimes with signs being displayed to the parent, as the girl is headed out her bedroom window.  Every bell and whistle added on to the share everything plans doesn't change the reality that for many of us, and we do keep speaking up don't find value in your share everything plans. We don't need unlimited calling - who talks on a phone anymore - and rogers includes it as a 15.00 add on if needed, but true as you put the addons, you get closer and closer to the plans, but you can't withdraw the addon if it is part of the plan, you just keep paying for it.  When my daughters were in university long distance, we put long distance options on and changed their phone numbers to local - long distance to call us, but we called them via voice over ip and avoided the long distance to them, their phone was local to their university, and we had a small long distance option on our phone so we could call them when we were in the car - then text came along (yes that goes back a while and we began just sending a text to say we were 5 minutes out).  


The thing I do miss about Rogers is, that model I just worked out was put together by a rep on the phone based upon a clear description of my needs.  Now all I get is the constant push to share everything plans to meet my needs which is limited value at higher costs, and I wasn't even buying a phone.  I have neither upgraded a phone, or bought new phones in all my years unless they broke.  Then I just waited until I could find the best deal to buy one outright from whatever company I wanted to with the best price, stayed with Rogers at the times - my plans were well designed and unique to me.


Long winded I know, but the message in hear is be an educated consumer and be aware of the marketing.  If you hear the same thing over and over again, then it has been well scripted, and if it doesn't sound like it meets your needs, ask what they have as alternatives, and if necessary, just say, I will look at other options, and I may be back to choose what you offer, or I may be back just to cancel.


By the way, someday, but not likely, I do work at it, I will learn to make these less verbous and more concise.


I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 3,480

Re: Frustrating Customer Service

Here's what I think.


1. If the grandfathered plan that was cancelled by inadvertedly accepting a new plan that did not turn out to be such a good deal is no longer in the system, there is no way it can be reinstated. Everything is done with software, not pen and paper. It's just not there.


2. Since the customer got duped into switching or upgrading through a misunderstanding, Rogers should do the right thing and give a loyalty discount to compensate.

SA8300HD, SA8300SD, DTA50, LG-E410B PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario
I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,152

Re: Frustrating Customer Service



You have it dead on.  You have to live with the error, and the emotional feeling of feeling duped and that may come out in our correspondence, on this site and with CSR's and upwards through the food chain.


But in my experience, if I can demonstrate that I was communicated to in an incomplete, or unintentially misleading way, as I move up the food chain, I have had good support and response to provide loyalty incentives to smooth over the pain.


Unfortunately, in my case, this is happening way too much in the last few years, and I suspect that all of us long term customers all have a few stories too.  I think we stick around because with persistence, we do get Rogers to acknowledge the miscommunication, no matter how it happened and find some way to provide a solution within their range of options and yes sometimes we get caught by these changing plans and add-ons.


I would suggest that the reason why some of us long term people are so persistent about putting our view point forward, is that Rogers has been running a model for a long time of adding and removing plans, changing names, and bundling, using a lot of marketing speak that infests our lives everywhere we go and as a result remind us of the things we are trying to forget about,  terms with cancellation fees on the home side, terms without cancellation fees, and we have been through it just too many times, and the last year or so, it has become just too much for me.  It has led my daughters to leave, for me to strongly consider it and if there is another mess up on Navigtr, that will be the last straw, because my wife who is the last hold out will say enough is enough.  When her service usage is impacted, that is where she call it quits.  I get to do the calling, and she is not pleased with the complete absence of clear answers and she still swears every time the box does something unpredictable.  So all of these little and big things begin to build and we get stubborn, speak up strongly, and if neccesary, move on, or in some cases, learn to live without. Us long term customers also know what it was like to not have cell phones, to have home phone from Bell only, and purchased many differented marketed long distance plans and cards, TV without a setbox, just a converter, no PVR's and so forth.  In some cases, we decide that the cost is just too much for the claimed "value", and just drop back to meeting our needs.  You can still get a pay as you go small plan from a gas company, running on Rogers network, starting at 15.00. It is a matter of the customer assessing what is provides them value for what cost, irrevelent of what a company may try to say to us otherwise.  But I am guessing there are still a lot of people who just need to have the newest phones, more expensive than the laptop I am typing on, need to reserve to be first and get angry when they aren't first, like to show off the wonderful value and new toy in their pocket, so the lines of subsidized costs, changing plans for our benefit must be working on some, but not all of us.


So I remain a loyal customer, only because the upper levels listen to me.  If I wasn't retired, I wouldn't have the time, and I would have been a long time ago.  There are very good alternatives out there, I am just comfortable, but recent decisions have made things very uncomfortable for me - I won't go into them.  They have all been passed to higher levels and worked with, but I am very tired of it.


Time to go get a work out - ture value for the money - health benefits, and actually part of my mental health treatment program at a major treatment centre, no additional cost to me.  Just part of effective treatment.



I'm a Senior Contributor
Posts: 152

Re: Frustrating Customer Service



The third thing Rogers should do is bring up the call recording for the agent who apparently created this problem, verify the error, and then re-train the agent.  If they do not have the recording, because it may be a random process, then they should begin recording and reviewing calls handled by the agent to verify this is not happening to other customers.

I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: Frustrating Customer Service

All of these poor experiences are a direct result of the failure in which Roger's manages it's Customer Service infrastructure. Can agents be made accountable for errors? Absolutely. Will it make a difference? Usually not. People make mistakes everywhere, but it's the ability to fix these mistakes that Rogers denies its frontline staff. You can go all the way to the Ombusman's office for your province and probably never get your old plan back. It's just the way it is.


The hard truth is it's cheaper for Rogers to lose you as a customer then spend a fortune to flip it's entire way of doing things. It's not personal, it's business. At the end of the day, after all the rhetoric, what matters most is pleasing the shareholders and posting good quarterly results. Remember, they're here to make money, not provide a service for the good of mankind. But it's also the reason they rank the lowest in customer service, and why Deepak Khandelwal was brought in last year for a new perspective. To his credit, the new CEO Guy Laurence has jumped right in and shaked up the landscape as well, and he's a very direct person who isn't afraid to admit something is broken. I've spoken to him a couple times about these issues, and he's more then aware of the frustrations you're having. Maybe, in time, they can sit down and unravel the knots one by one.


But as it is now, frontline staff simply work with very little margin for error. One mistake, one lapse of judgment or one wrong click of a button can ruin your experience. Even if they can fix the error, you've got to deal with the complicated billing outcome and sit down with a calculator making sure you weren't overcharged. It's far from a foolproof system. If you happen to get someone competent on the phone, they may misread an overly complicated policy and give you the wrong information, or if you're really unlucky, you'll get someone who can't even tell you how Wi-Fi works. That's the sad state of affairs unfortunately - poor tools, poor training, bad management.


But honestly Rogers isn't alone. Bell, Telus (who own Virgin and Koodo respectively), Shaw, Wind, etc all have similar shortcomings - so even if you leave you'll probably have issues somewhere else. When it comes to poor customer experiences, my advice is to bear down and stick it out. There's nothing more valuable then tenure when it comes to a service provider.

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,152

Re: Frustrating Customer Service

You may be right in your analysis of customer service - and the complexity in which they make for both the understanding of the customer, as well as the poor CSR.


But even so, I do take the advice to hunker down and stick it out. Yes tenure has its benefits, but there are some of us out here that use our TV's, our Internet, our smartphones for tracking health conditions, to remind us to take medication, and when customer service begins to impact my health, which it has (if you have ever had to deal with mental health issues, or trying to deal with the triggers of PTSD, you will understand, while others are using their access to resources, that we choose very carefully, with great research to provide us with a quality of health and to recover or maintain that quality of life, when the model of service directly impacts that health condition and the accommodations, I don't know about others, but the powers that be as I move up the chain will hear how the model of service and their decisions have impacted this one person with a disability.  And I don't hesitate to remind them that as a customer service organization, that they have legal and moral responsibilities to consider how their decisions will impact my life.


So I have some basic steps I use - they do use an immediate phrase when you call in, which is actually recommended in the legislation FAQ's from the governement and human rights courts and tribunals.


How may I help you -


So my standard answer is that I immediately indicate that I have a cognitive disability that impacts my ability to remember and that I will be requiring them to repeat often, to wait while I document everything that is being said, and asking them to clarify everything they are talking about.  If they become frustrated with coping with the need to change their approach with me, then I point it out to them, and if they cannot adapt, then I ask them to give me to another person and to have them write in their notes (whether they do or not, I inform the next person), that due to an inability for us to communicate effectively due to my disability, that I have asked to speak to another person.  And we start over again.


I work very hard on these steps to avoid errors on their part, and I do not agree to anything unless they have gone through a complete and detailed description of the changes they are recommending, the full costing, the impact on existing services.  I make them do this work, while I do it and I keep track as we go along, and have them read it all to me.  If for example, as you say, the person does not seem to have a full understanding about what we are talking about - I am well skilled in the field of telecommunications and customer service, and I can hear it in their voices, and their tone as the frustration grows. I support them in the same way I expect them to support me, but if I feel that they don't really know what I am talking about when I ask for a comparison of services, or when they say the router has 2.4 and 5.0 in the box and that makes it so much better, I educate that this is only true if you have no walls between the router and the device - many of them don't know that - and although it is theoretically true (it makes great marketing), there are practical implications that will interfere.


Since I am on old plans, I always start with what I am trying to learn about my service, telling them what I already know, and if they can't easily reference what I am talking about, I request to move up the ladder.


But as can always happen, human error on their part, or mine can happen and the next thing that happens is that they have made an error that in some cases impacts my ability to live on my fixed income which carries many costs and so I am very careful about getting value for my conditions and choices at the best price that I can afford.


When reps getting into marketing scripts, which are always obvious because they are all couched the same way, I shut it down immediately and indicate that I have no desire to listening to marketing scripts. Let's stick to service and costs comparisons, what are my needs and what can they do for me.


When those errors do get made and I become aware of that error, I immediately contact loyalty by escalating, explain what has happen, remind them of their legal responsibilities under the OADA (disabilities act) and we work together to get it back to where it should be if they hadn't made the error.  For me the issue is not money, it is the need to ensure that the services that best support my disability are in place and if they remove those due to policy and marketing decisions, I push as high as I have to go.


But I can do that because of my tenure.  But I will take one exception to the position put forward - if we as consumers don't continue to push back at companies, then we are merely victims, and we have lost our voice to influence our lives and on an altruistic level, to help others who may not be as skilled as I am at getting true value (defined by me the consumer) for the cost (again defined by what I can comfortably pay).


Yes I do preach a lot about the responsibility of organizations, I always have, but more so that my quality of life can be directly impacted by that little click of a button.


So I don't dispute the last posters positions and statements about tenure, customer service, and staff education and support, but I do say, never let them off easy, and if the frustrations have just become too high, for someone like me that has a low tolerance for frustration - the nature of the disability, which I spend considerable time and money to get treatment for, I do push hard and strong when the mistake lies in unintentional miscommunication by the rep and or by the inadvertant slip in description of impact on my services, or the "slip of the click of a button" which becomes irreparable.  


So my own advice, after being around for a long time, and been through my fair share of poor customer service, is I work the phones, document every conversation in detail, make them read their complete notes to me and require them to add more detail if I feel it is incomplete - I can't assure they put it there and have learned that sometimes they dont, but when I move up the level, if it is not there, I read my notes to them and indicate that they said it was there. I make them accountable - as to the solution, that often requires creative solutions on their part because they have chosen to design a system that there is often no turning back from that casual error, and money being thrown at me is usually not what I am looking for - but if it means they credit back the higher cost of a service to put back what they removed in error, I will push and accept that.  The frustration, that is just the nature of being a customer, and I listen to the apology, but point out that sorry is only words, and a good place to start, but it is the solutions that matter.




And as a final note, you are absolutely right about the decision by Rogers, as well as so many other companies to not give front line staff the authority to "fix" errors and for someone to take ownership of the issue until it is settled. As has often been said, the most important people when it comes to quality customer service is the first person you contact, and the last person who touches the service before it comes into your hands.  In a store, that is the people at the front door, the people on the floor, and the cashier, and delivery person at the end.  Mistakes in the middle can be fixed before the customer is aware, while mistakes at those first few and last levels hit the customer directly and can destroy all good intentions for good service.  In the Rogers and telecom industry, the first person is the store rep, the chat line, the tech support person at your door, the shipper and so forth.  That single click in error sets in to process a horrible customer service experience, because that person has no authority to do the most obvious and effective solution - be able to immediately reverse the steps and put it back where it was and start all over again, or in the case of the CSR who takes the call to deal with the concern, that they can do it at their level, that we are sorry for the inconvience are just words and just don't cut it.  We can all be forgiving, but we all expect people to be accountable and responsible to fix their errors.


It is a hard job to keep pushing, but it is the only way that things change - consider our loud voices and their impact recently on the new on line account management system, the withdrawal of the rollout of Navigatr, but let's be honest, things only began to change when it hit the newspapers - and then things began to change.  Sometimes it requires that level too.


Just some thoughts on frustrating customer service and at the end of the day, each of us makes our own decisions, and for example, when it comes to Navigtr (a different thread I know), this is impacting my quality of life during those times when I can't sleep. Although I have found another forum to assist me in getting through the hard times and to facilitate change by combining our voice, and it can also facilitate problem solving directly with a moderator via PM, just one more method of communicating our concerns and needs and if we feel we have been wronged. Plus it is interesting, intellectual exercise for me and also beneficial to my health, although when the issues personally impact me, as some of you know, I do walk away for a while and use my therapy and family support to calm down, then come back at it again.  Welcome to the forum.



Rogers Employee lockdown2341
Rogers Employee
Posts: 357

Re: Frustrating Customer Service

I think the ultimate takeaway from all of this is that there a lot of different options out there for different people and a person has to go where they feel their needs are satisfied. You found value in plans through smaller companies. But yet I've had people call in and be very excited at the things included in Share Everything, such as Roam Like Home and the new things like a free Spotify account. So yes, there are people who enjoy those things and those who do not. It's up to the individual to figure that out for themselves.

I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 766

Re: Frustrating Customer Service

@lockdown2341 wrote:

I think the ultimate takeaway from all of this is that there a lot of different options out there for different people and a person has to go where they feel their needs are satisfied. You found value in plans through smaller companies. But yet I've had people call in and be very excited at the things included in Share Everything, such as Roam Like Home and the new things like a free Spotify account. So yes, there are people who enjoy those things and those who do not. It's up to the individual to figure that out for themselves.


I think you are absolutely right with what you have said    ... but I think that the point BS and others are making is, why, when we have been with Roger for a good period of time is Rogers trying to change us as individuals by not CONTINUING  to offer those plans that fit OUR needs at a competitive price  ?






I've Been Around
Posts: 1

Re: Frustrating Customer Service



I was hopeful at a relatively smooth installation but my family was very skeptical.


Through my new home builder, Rogers was offering a promotional offer to new customers. The Rogers sales rep (Rep #1), Bill answered any questions I had and had promptly returned my calls. Originally, I only wanted internet service (my priority) with Rogers, but ended up with the bundled package offering home phone, internet and cable. Less than a week ago, I moved into my home in a newly constructed neighborhood and expected the Rogers technician (Rep #2) on Nov. 16 to install everything. The Rogers technician came, but said he was unable to connect the internet due to a connectivity issue in the area. He further advised that everything that needed to be done inside the home was completed and had escalated the issue to a senior technician. He further confirmed that the issue would be resolved that same day or no later than the following (Nov 17th) and that I should expect a call 1/2 hr prior to the visit.


Approx. 10:30am on Nov 17th, I contacted Bill to confirm the status (as I had not heard back from anyone), and Bill indicated he saw the ticket request opened and that a senior technician is scheduled to attend today from 2pm-5pm. By 5:22PM, no one had contacted me and we still had no internet, so I called Bill and left a message. At 7:39PM I called the Rogers Customer Service line 1-(855) 381-7839 and was on the line with them for 22 minutes trying to get some answers. I spoke to Rep #3 who apologized and re-assured me that someone would call me within 24hrs to just BOOK an appointment, but could not give me a general idea as to when the issue would be resolved.


Fast forward 24+hrs, Nov 19th, 5:08PM, I contacted Rogers again to find out when the internet issue was going to be resolved so that I can determine next steps (i.e. cancel the Rogers request and seek a different internet provider). Rep #4 apologized and said the only thing he can say is that I can expect a call from Rogers within 24 hrs. I told Rep #4 that the customer service provided to me was unacceptable and that I've been the one to call Rogers for an update and the only response I get is that someone will call me back within 24 hrs. I told the rep that I didn't want a call back from Rogers to book an appointment and that I wanted to know when they were going to come.


Nov. 20th (day 5), I received a call in the evening on my home phone line (recently installed by Rogers), by Rogers (Rep #5) offering a promotional package for NEW Customers. At this point, I truly lost my patience with Rogers. I have been begging Rogers to provide me with internet service and yet they decide to have a sales rep call me to solicit business again. I asked him to patch me through to their escalation/management department as I have had enough. Rep #5 explained he was just the sales dept. and did not know I was already a customer and that I could contact the Customer Service line if I had any issues. I asked him to patch me directly through or provide me with a direct number for someone (i.e. manager). Rep #5, placed me on hold for a few minutes. Upon return, it was someone else on the line (Rep #6) explaining that the sales rep team would not be able to assist in my problem. Rep #6 took my phone number down and indicated he was going to contact the tech service dept on my behalf to find out the status and assured me he was going to call me back in 15 minutes. That call back never happened.


Dealing with 6 different Rogers representatives, not once has Rogers given me an explanation as to what the issue is other than the initial comment of "connectivity issue in the area" and what they have done since to assure me that they are in fact working on it and not sitting in limbo. I get the run-around and nothing but excuses from Rogers. If they managed customer expectations better, I wouldn't be this frustrated. If Rogers spent the same amount of effort with customer service on their retained and existing clients as they do on new customers, maybe they wouldn't lose out to their competition.



I've posted to external DSL sites to get the word across and maybe light the fire under Rogers to get things going.


Let's see when the pain ends.