Mobile Internet

[allend]

Here is a quick excerpt from my documentation project, citing only a recent example:

I have two Rocket Hubs sitting side by side and can interchange them.  (I have two because I spend some time at another home).

I was using one hub all day yesterday and another into the evening.

 At 4:01 PM yesterday the data usage was reported on the web as 2.38 GB for one and and 1.98 GB for the other.

At 4:10 PM local I unplugged one Rocket Hub (W35) and plugged in the other.  

Around 9 PM, I unplugged the second hub, too.

At 7:57 AM today the data usage was reported on the web as 2.38 and 1.98

At 2:07 PM today the data usage was reported on the web as 2.45 and 2.23

How can this be?

 One unit was unlugged since 4:10 yesterday and the other was used fairly heavily until 9 in the evening, yet in the morning the data report had not changed from 4 PM yesterday -- despite considerable use of the one hub  from 4 to 9 PM.

(edited by allend for clarity and spelling)

[skinorth]

I think you need to take this up with your "friends" at Rogers.  Is it your friends as well who cannot tolerate the truth being told in this forum, and who are editing/butchering our postings beyond all recognition.

Even Tony Clement is now going to review the CRTC's decision on Internet data volume charging.  I wonder what our "friends" the Conservatives are going to decide on these issues?

skinorth

[allend]

> I think you need to take this up with your "friends" at Rogers.  Is it your friends as well who cannot tolerate the truth being told in this forum, and who are editing/butchering our postings beyond all recognition.

I noticed some snipping here and there and think it only serves to make people suspicious and wonder what is being hidden and why. I was more amused than annoyed by the removal of my mention of Consumer and Corporate Affairs and The Weights and Measures Act.  After all, these authorities  are no secret, and they are there to dal with exactly what we seem to be experiencing -- a lack of transparency in the use and reporting of measurements.

I'm posting here to make sure that Rogers knows they are being watched and that it is no secret that their data reporting is inadequate.

I'd much rather they responded proactively than that the issue become a class action suit of a political football.  I'm hoping that they will find my heads-up a good reason to prioritize accurate and timely data reporting and transparency in usage. They have done it admirably in some areas and I think that they have just not gotten around to this particular small segment yet.

As I say, I do consider Rogers people as my friends.  I think that for the most part, they serve us very well and make efforts to please us.  There are always oversights and mixed priorities and I understand the growing pains that firms suffer in trying to guess where the crowd will run to next -- and to always be breaking in new technology and new markets.

As for cutting out your Shakespeare, I don't know what that is all about.  Sometimes I think that doing such things is counter-productive.  I moderate a number of lists and have for decades and personally, I usually just let people hang themselves if they must.

I also see no point in a taking a combative posture when dealing with the company that *we* chose to do business with.  After all, we chose once, and we can choose again. I prefer to try to be constructive and to provide the proof that something needs fixing on the assumption that somebody will notice and get it fixed.  Usually it works.

> Even Tony Clement is now going to review the CRTC's decision on Internet data volume charging.  I wonder what our "friends" the Conservatives are going to decide on these issues?

It is a good question, and I personally would prefer that the market works it all out. without their "help".   After all, the government got us here in the first place by overpricing spectrum and by protecting companies in a way that distorts competition.  I'd call on the government as a last resort.  Educating consumers and ensuring transparency should make a lot of the problems go away.

To do that, we need the proper tools, and that is what I am writing about.

(edited by allend to correct the usual small errors)

[allend]

Just to report on my latest observations...

Yesterday at 7:57 AM the website reports: 2.38 and1.98 GB

At 2:07 PM: 2.45 and 2.23 GB

At 7:59 PM:  2.45 and 2.23 GB

At 11:04 PM:  2.45 and 2.23 GB

This morning at 5:46 AM: 2.54 and 2.23 GB

4 days remain in my billing period and I have 1.23 GB left if I believe the website.  You can see why it is important to me to know exactly where I stand.

If I have, indeed, used 0.41 GB in the last day of heavy use, and if continue to use data at that rate, I can expect to use 1.6 more GB by the end of the billing month and pay at least $15 for a fraction of one GB. (1.6 GB -1.23 GB = 0.37 GB)

My typical usage is more like 0.2 GB/day and I could just turn the net off for several days, BUT, I really have no idea if I am already over and just have not heard about it yet due to glitches on the website reports.

The website and some simple calculation says I have 1.23 GB left -- split between the two plans -- before I go up another $15 in billing on one or the other -- or both.  That 1.23 GB should be plenty to get me through to the next period, BUT if I try to use all the data that I must pay for in the base rate on both units, I risk going over on *both* plans and paying an extra $30 + taxes for what will probably be less than 1 GB extra!

Due to the fact that the data usage reports are unreliable, and that Rogers does not reveal in real-time the figure they will be using, prudence forces me to  leave some of my paid-for data unused on both plans.  How close do I dare to approach that 3 GB step, I have no way of knowing.   For all I know, I could already be over and not know it since the website reports seem so untrustworthy.

In the past, I have recorded the website reading at the end of a billing month and compared it to the amount billed and they are never the same, so I don't trust the "Gas Gauge" provided and cannot empty my tank. 

What's more, that month end number has stayed on the Rogers site as much as several days after the end of the billing month before the usage began to update again!

I could try to monitor my usage locally, and I actually do, but Rogers does not bill by what my data meter says, but rather their own system.  When I have compare my local monitoring of data usage and Rogers numbers, the two have not agreed.  FWIW, I have a data monitor on my machines and have had for months, but that approach simply does not capture all the traffic due to things like delays in loading at boot-up, etc..  The discrepancies are not huge, but let's just say that usage is less than Rogers computes, which could result in going over and paying an extra $15 for next to nothing.

My own measurement is not accepted for billing purposes and does not agree with Rogers AND, I don't have accurate enough data information from Rogers to use up the balance of either plan without paying an extra $15 and maybe $30 for next to nothing.

Do you see my dilemma?

If the plan did not jump up in such a huge step -- $15 -- and the usage was billed in units rather than in blocks, this would not be an issue, but due to the way the data is sold, it is essential that consumers have accurate and up to the minute usage information.

(edited by allend for appearance and to correct the usual minor errors that only show up after hitting, "Post").

[allend]

As reported previously, This morning at 5:46 AM the Rogers site reported : 2.54 and 2.23 GB for my two W35s, one of which is not plugged in.

Now, at 10:27 Am, after my being outside shovelling snow and driving a friend to work, I see the website says 2.23 and 2.75 GB

Did I use 210 MB from 5:47 to now?  I don't see how.  I just checked email and did a little editing, read several web pages --posted here, and checked the Graphics-heavy Rogers login and data info pages several times.  I don't see any big updates coming in, and my Tab prolly used about 20 MB max (How do I monitor its consumption, other than trhough Rogers web pages?)

My local metering on my main machines says I used about 79 MB on one machine and 23 MB on the other, or about 120 MB total (and my metering sometimes includes local traffic on my LAN that does not have anything to do with Rogers.  Setting up these montors is tricky if there is nothing reliable to calibrate against).

Well, at least the site is updating more frequently and the numbers are changing.  I wonder how accurate they are?

(edited by allend for appearance, afterthoughts,  and to correct the usual minor errors that only show up after hitting, "Post").

[emmjay]

I  do mostly research online and very little downloading (Appl rels & MS patches/fixes I keep up to date)  so I only have a monthly requirement of 1GB.    With it being so small in comparison to some of our other members here, I get to see the small chucks of usage as it happens and I was surprised at how the monthly usage numbers are reported.

I know that my billing date is the 28th of the month, so I check around the 26th to see where I am.  Amazingly,  I have seen my available MBs cutover  on the 27th when I had 300MB left in my allowance.  This month I checked on the 25, 26, 27 and 28th (I had about 100MB left when I logged off on the 28th in the morning and  having used 15MB that session, so I thought tomorrow it will be reset to 1024 available). On the 29th at 10am it was 930MB used. and not reset.   I did not open any other website other than Roger.com and I logged off.  At 5pm, I logged on again, opened Rogers to view my usage ... an extra 3MB used for this session ... I logged off after that). On the 30th it had reset, but not to 1024MB, it was down 50MB. I have gremlins living at my house who surf the internet as I sleep ... who'd have thunk!  

I got curious and downloaded networx to run alongside the Rogers meter .  I put my system to sleep after I use it so there is no network traffic when I am not at the keyboard.  I will check the usage reported over the month of Feb to determine what those differences are.  As Feb has 28 days this year, I wonder what the cut over date is going to be, March 3rd?   In the meantime I will be looking for a gremlins exterminator.  

[allend]

OK.  Here is a perfect illustration of the problem.  I have been trying to manage my data usage so that I do not exceed 3 GB on either of my two Rocket Hubs.  I have only three days now until the plan resets usage to zero.   I have been using the data presented on the Rogers site and checking it often, and reporting what I see.

Yesterday:

At 11:18 AM  on the Rogers site, I saw 2.23 and 2.75 GB

I decided that I was getting close to the price bump and turned off the one hub and started using the other at 11:21 AM

I was away and the hubs were both unplugged  from 2 until 11 PM, when I checked email and the usage info using only the 2.23 hub, and

At 11:02 PM yesterday on the Rogers site, I saw 2.23 and 2.75 GB

Today:

At 7:36 AM today, I see 2.26 and 3.06 GB

At 9:13 Am today, I see 2.26 and 3.06 GB

OK.  So, in spite of my best efforts, and using the most recent data report on the Rogers site, I went over.

It now appears that, even though the unit in question was turned off completely ever since 11 AM yesterday, that the Rogers site still reported only 2.75 GB usage at 11 PM -- 12 hours later -- and only decided that the number was really 3.06 when I looked this morrning.  That is hardly timely reporting or a four-hour lag.  It was 12 hours minimum.

Will Rogers charge me an extra $15  $10 for that extra 0.06 GB?  I don't know.  I noticed once before that I was slightly over and they didn't (Thanks), but can I count on grace?

At any rate, this is only one of the inconsistencies I have documented to date and proof positive that we are not being gibven anything like real-time data with which to manage.

Rogers is not alone.  I have Galaxy Tab and have tried three times to sign on for the prepaid plan with Bell.  Three times, I have entered all the data and credit card etc. and been take to an error screen saying the service is not available right now or, after that, that my password is incorrect.  I went through the process to get a new one set up and the 'bot promised me an email.  That was twelve hours ago.  Nothing yet.

So, I guess we are on the bleeding edge here and the people running these systems are challenged to  make them work as promised and all the time, so they all have my sympathy.

I am pretty happy so far, but do have concerns about the info we are given for managing our data consumption and charges. I think I have documented my case here and hope the exercise has been constructive -- and that we will see priority given to giving users real-time data in an accurate, easily accessible way to monitor and manage  the high-cost usage for these Rocket Hubs.

 (edited by allend for appearance, afterthoughts, and to correct the usual minor errors that only show up after hitting, "Post").

[allend]

I should clarify something further about suggestions that the onus is on the user to monitor data usage locally with software.  There are a several problems with that idea.

* First, on sign-up, we were led to believe that we would be able to easily monitor usage on the Rogers site at any time.  The process is neither easy, nor  is it accurate.  additionally it seems to take a megabyte or more each time due to the graphics and flash-heavy design and also takes a minute or more due to slow performance.

* The way Rogers measures data and what is included or left out of the data stream for counting purposes is not set out for users to see and is apparently proprietary.  (That is a whole different subject.  For present purpose we'll assume we are OK with whatever Rogers considers 'data consumption' as long as we are able to relate it to our usage by seeing it in real time and make decisions based on that info).  Therefore, we are unable to duplicate their measurements.  Can't do it.

*  The hub is sold to serve multiple computers, phones, tabs, and other Internet-capable devices including webcams, home monitors, etc..  These devices are not all capable of reporting usage, and even if they were, collating that data would be a challenge.

* I have used Networx for a year or more now, and can tell anyone who cares that configuring it can be challenging.  Changes in configuration or delays in program start-up can lead to omissions, corruption of history and/or loss of history.  Moreover, in my case, I use Synergy to run two machines side by side and all my mouse  and keyboard traffic is measured along with other connection traffic, making the reports an overestimate of usage.  I can run up my traffic readings by a few MB by just moving my mouse around for a little while, so That sort of monitoring is deceptive.  Moreover, Dropbox does a local sync between computers on a LAN and that is reported as if it went over the HUB, since it does go through the wireless connection.

*  The hub (W35) reports data usage, but by the calendar month and Rogers says explicitly that their billing measurements do not correlate with what the Hub reports.  Any time I have looked at the Hub report, it has seemed chaotic and irrelevant.  (Maybe I should examine it again).

* Users elsewhere on this forum have discussed how a user can reprogram a router to monitor 'net traffic, and it looks like a great idea until you examine the process.  Take it from a geek, it is a geek-only process. I may do it someday for fun, but I'll plan on having lots of time and a router I really don't care much about before I star, and did I mention that even if we did monitor our data flow with complete precision, that Rogers may not use the same criteria, and will not respect our measurements?

In summary, the only practical, user-friendly solution is that Rogers do what they inferred and it seems promised up front: provide simple, accurate, timely and accessible data monitoring for users.  Doing so will improve our confidence and loyalty, and ultimately, Rogers bottom line.

  (edited by allend for appearance, afterthoughts, and to correct the usual minor errors that only show up after hitting, "Post").

[RogersErin]

Hi allend,

Thanks for posting your comments; I will pass along your thoughts about your challenging user experience.

Four hours of usage reflected on rogers.com is an approximation and can vary. 

Usage reported on rogers.com reflects your bill, and using third party tools to track your usage is only for personal use.

If you’re having issues with billing, please contact a Rogers care representative at 1-888-ROGERS1 (764-3771) to discuss.

Feel free to send your comments and / or questions in a PM (private message) or via forumsupport@rci.rogers.com.

[allend]

> Four hours of usage reflected on rogers.com is an approximation and can vary. 

Not sure exactly what you are saying here.  Maybe you could expand on that?

> Usage reported on rogers.com reflects your bill.

Not sure what that means exactly either.  How can it be an approximation and also "reflects on your bill?".  That seems contradictory, so I must not understand.

> and using third party tools to track your usage is only for personal use.

Yes.  So I have discovered.  I really, really need Rogers to supply information that allows me to know when I am approaching the end of one tier and about to incur additional cost, particularly near the end of the life of any data purchased.  This data is expensive and we need to be able to manage.

> If you’re having issues with billing, please contact a Rogers care representative at 1-888-ROGERS1 (764-3771) to discuss.  Feel free to send your comments and / or questions in a PM (private message) or via forumsupport@rci.rogers.com.

Thanks.  I don't have any billing issues and I don't want any.  Moreover, I and am quite happy with the service and equipment.  I only take the time to illustrate and discuss this question because it is the only major problem I see that affects my enjoyment of the service adversely.

My only concern is the lack of ability to monitor usage accurately and in real time.  Many of us ask, if Rogers cannot measure and report the amount of data use to us in a transparent  and timely manner, how can they possibly calculate our usage for billing purposes and is it accurate then?

Many of us remember the huge Bell screw-up years back when they lost the ability to bill cell phone customers for many months.  Later, after many many months, somehow, they assembled bills and sent them out.  At that point, they lost a large part of their customer base.

Accurate accounting is very important, after all, it is our money that is being requested and, if data is money, then as accurate an accounting for data must be made as for money.  If the plans were structured differently and data was not billed in such huge increments and if it did not expire the next day, as is very possible under the current plans, this would not be such a pressing issue, but I think I have illustrated very clearly how Rogers is falling short in that area.

Thank you for your patience and for listening and understanding my points, and for making sure that the responsible parties within Rogers are aware of this issue.  I look forward to quick resolution for the benefit of both Rogers and Rogers users.